The World at War ELO Tournament

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

[DQ] ElvisJJonesRambo (Axis) vs UmeU (Allies) --- British DOW in late 1941 on Thailand, and attack on Japan forces, game over. Not allowed. Too bad, game was about ready to start.

[Umeu]

[DQ] ElvisJJonesRambo (Axis) vs UmeU (Allies) --- British DOW in late 1941 on Thailand, and attack on Japan forces, game over. Not allowed. Too bad, game was about ready to start.

You basically put your amphibious units in my face, so I find this rule somewhat strange. But in any case, it was a misunderstanding then, because we never agreed to any rules anywhere, nor did you post the start of this game in the elo thread so I wasn't aware it was not allowed.

if we had made rules, then they surely would've included provisions for the Italian navy and experience farming.

indeed too bad, because it was gearing up to be a decent game

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Really, you didn't know. Just ruined a good game. You won the MedFront with gamey play. The Chinese were beginning to feel pressure. And certainly Russia I had a decent grip. Your pounding of Brest was good. Game was dead even. Far as putting Amphib in your face, lol. I was heading to Guadalcanal and the usual islands. Royal Navy was waiting for the ambush.

Italian Navy, two ships left the MedFront, did it help me? Actually helped you, I went to English Channel and suffered a penalty to USA. Your entire MedFront clone strategy is gamey, that's why I didn't bother. You scam on that, then head to Pacific to ambush on exact turn before I'm gonna hit Pearl Harbor.

Farming? You said in message you'd do same thing. I'm guessing you're speaking (writing) about Northern China. It was abandoned to take advantage of the USA penalty. You left both the cities at start of game. Personally, I think the Juntas shooting civilians as target practice makes it historical.

I'd call it Allied Farming pounding Corps without finishing the kill and spreading your attacks in France with both your Tactical, Bomber, and landed Special Forces if we're gonna split hairs. You switch the target. That doesn't bother me a bit. You worked over the port, more than necessary also.

Far as you "not knowing" about the attack by British on Japan, guess I need a lawyer to play.

Really sucks, this game was dead even. The Finnish situation was just gearing up, France, MedFront, China, etc.

Way to go dude, that was a waste.

Better call Saul, paid my retainer fee to play you.
Waste of time.

[Umeu]

I was writing an AAR on this game so obviously didn't want it to end. Like I said, we never agreed on any rules, and considering your playstyle and frequent nagging about there being too many rules, I figured everything was game. If you want rules, should make them explicit and also allow for the other player to make adjustments for it to be fair.

ELO is honestly irrelevant to me anyway, so we could have continued the game and not count it on ELO if you did not want it to be wasted time. Instead you just surrender. You did make it further than the last 2 times, so I guess good on you for that.

I didn't see any US mobilization for Italians in the English Channel, pretty sure it never happened. Not that it really matters, I don't think it's a problem for them to leave the Med, but you calling an attack on Tripoli gamey while you do all sorts of shenanigans is really questionable.

I did leave northern China, but not for the reasons you think. You can take that territory anyway without mobilizing the US, so that has nothing to do with it. I also don't mind that you farmed, but again, it's a bit funny that all you do is fine, but what others do is gamey. What about your camping of the Russian navy spawn points? XD You can't seriously complain about Tripoli after that. The invasion of Finland was also kinda silly, since no way they would surrender so easily, but just gotta roll with it. They probably need an alternative capital though.

Though some were supposed to block landings, the bulk of UK navy was actually en route to join up with the US to strike you quickly after PH, but all those juicy undefended transports made it hard to resist. In any case, it was a misunderstanding on my part, if I had known you would resign because of it, I would not have done it, even though I think it's a bad rule. You can accept that or don't. Up to you.

The game was pretty even indeed. You played well, did more damage in Russia than I expected you to. Sadly my lvl 2 infantry was quite late.

[firsteds]

I think it is now generally recognised that an Allied DOW on Japan before PH historical date is out of bounds. However this is a fairly recent development and some people are still catching up. It hasn't happened in any of my recent games (and I play a lot of PBEM, both ELO and non ELO). The game is much better for this development.

There are some rules and agreed rules that don't really impact the outcome of games (XP farming, Italian navy outside Med). But the early Allied DOW on Japan was a game killer. I was on both sides of it (apologies). Glad it is gone.

[Umeu]

I think it is now generally recognised that an Allied DOW on Japan before PH historical date is out of bounds. However this is a fairly recent development and some people are still catching up. It hasn't happened in any of my recent games (and I play a lot of PBEM, both ELO and non ELO). The game is much better for this development.

There are some rules and agreed rules that don't really impact the outcome of games (XP farming, Italian navy outside Med). But the early Allied DOW on Japan was a game killer. I was on both sides of it (apologies). Glad it is gone.

it happened to me in a recent game, where I was Axis. I agree that attacking Japan early on, where the British take all the spawn points and overwhelm the Japanese fleet before all their units spawn, is quite gamey, and I wouldn't do that. And I think the demarcation line as shown on the map should be respected. But that should go both ways, when the Japanese move all their amphibious transports far out of the Japanese zone into Imperial coastal waters in order to reach locations that the Japanese would otherwise never be able to reach so fast, even with long range amphibs, imo that's akin to a DoW itself. I attacked in november 41, and I sunk only 4 transports. Had I actually planned for it, I might have gotten 3 more, but it was a spontaneous decision, only possible because I was sending carriers to the US West Coast to help fight the IJN after Pearl Harbor.

But the main confusion stems from the fact that our game was never listed in Elo nor were any rules stated before hand by the host or at the start of the game by either player. So I was under the impression we were playing without rules.

[El_Condoro]

I asked in an earlier post for a list of the various optional rules that can be adopted by players of ELO games. The event discussed above shows one reason why that would be useful. Even a checklist or something would be useful for us new ELO players.

I tend to play a fairly historical game but I would not have known about this one if I had decided to try a new approach or my opponent did. Sometimes I try whacky stuff just to see what will happen - I wouldn't be happy if that caused me to forfeit the game.

[firsteds]

I asked in an earlier post for a list of the various optional rules that can be adopted by players of ELO games. The event discussed above shows one reason why that would be useful. Even a checklist or something would be useful for us new ELO players.

Good idea. Let's start a list. Here is my first draft:

Formal ELO rules, long established that everyone knows and follows:

1. No major diplo
2. No Barbarossa before 1941
3. No diplo on Bulgaria

Recent ELO rules that most people follow:

4. No Allied DoW on Japan before historical PH
5. No diplo on DEI (although this is now limited by the latest patch)

Optional stuff that is commonly agreed by PM or chat:

6. No Italian navy outside Med before DoW
7. No using garrison transports as scouts
8. No using neutral ships / transports as scouts
9. No XP farming (or limits on specific types of XP farming e.g surface ships against coastal targets, maritime bombers against inland targets)

Under recent discussion in the forum:

10. Early attack on Tripoli (sorry I don't know any details about this one)
11. Retreating in China to try and trigger the US mobilisation penalty (not sure there is much support for this as a rule)
12. German navy blocking the Russian navy spawn points

Just a rough draft. Suggest changes / additions!

[ThunderLizard11]

[ELO Started]
Thunderlizard11(Allies) v. El_Condoro (Axis)

[El_Condoro]

@firsteds Thanks for the list. It's a great place to start and I will use it for all new games.

[HARRIS45]

HARRIS45 (axis) defeats Old Shane (allies) Allies resign 10/43 as Russia surrenders. Fun game.

[HarrySmith]

I asked in an earlier post for a list of the various optional rules that can be adopted by players of ELO games. The event discussed above shows one reason why that would be useful. Even a checklist or something would be useful for us new ELO players.

Good idea. Let's start a list. Here is my first draft:

Formal ELO rules, long established that everyone knows and follows:

1. No major diplo
2. No Barbarossa before 1941
3. No diplo on Bulgaria

Recent ELO rules that most people follow:

4. No Allied DoW on Japan before historical PH
5. No diplo on DEI (although this is now limited by the latest patch)

Optional stuff that is commonly agreed by PM or chat:

6. No Italian navy outside Med before DoW
7. No using garrison transports as scouts
8. No using neutral ships / transports as scouts
9. No XP farming (or limits on specific types of XP farming e.g surface ships against coastal targets, maritime bombers against inland targets)

Under recent discussion in the forum:

10. Early attack on Tripoli (sorry I don't know any details about this one)
11. Retreating in China to try and trigger the US mobilisation penalty (not sure there is much support for this as a rule)
12. German navy blocking the Russian navy spawn points

Just a rough draft. Suggest changes / additions!

firsteds, i think you have covered it well with the rules and optional ones

[HamburgerMeat]

New ELO:
HamburgerMeat (Axis) vs. Pekkavilamoura (Allies)

Game ended with Axis victory. Thanks for the game!

[HamburgerMeat]

New ELO:
HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs. Umeu (Axis)

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

[WIN] ElvisJJonesRambo (Allies) vs Firsteds (Axis) --- Long and winding road to victory. Took to Summer 1946 for Berlin to be captured. Japan didn't go until early 1946. USA morale was awful, game was nearly lost. Yanks were as low as 15%, British 38%.

Early game, went heavy France, with the British suiciding units/air/etc to slow the Nazi invasions. Went well. Russia was quite happy with the help in early game.

Then it went bad. Yanks brought a large force towards Tunisia. Only problem, right before I was gonna land, the Italians/Gerrys took it. Massive trap. Royal Navy / Yanks weren't real strong yet, had to deal with endless U-boats West of the Rock, and had to land Western Algeria, wasn't fun. Matter of fact, Algeria near fell. I left it.

Spent alot of MMPs on Turkey diplo. Royal Navy and special forces did take Norway, not sure were it got the Allies much.

In the Pacific the Japs held alot of *key ground, which destroyed Yankee morale.

Game was won by Russia. They held important areas since Western Allies were so suicidal. Reds had enough MMPs to exchange.

Great game, felt out played really, despite winning.

[ThunderLizard11]

[ELO Ended]
Thunderlizard11(Allies) [WIN] v. El_Condoro (Axis) [LOSS] - Axis resigned in January '43. Russia has pushed Germans back almost entirely and were on the move in Romania and the Far East. DEI still in Allied hands as well as Borneo and most of the small islands. Axis made bold moves into Australia and N. Africa, both of which stalled out costing resources needed elsewhere. El Condoro had an excellent turn return with 3-4 turns/day on occasion and was a very dynamic player.

[Pekkavilamoura]

ELO ended:
neverquits99 Axis WIN vs. Pekkavilamoura Allies LOSS.
Allies quit mid '43. Russia & China on the ropes, Allies getting nowhere with morale dropping turn by turn. Air war was key, also very clever naval warfare by neverquits.
Rematch starting, have to take a different approach and better research decisions in the next one.

[HARRIS45]

HARRIS45 (allies) defeats El Condoro (axis) as axis resigns 9/43 after being stymied across fronts. Fun challenging game as allies redeem themselves in a rematch.

[neverquits99]

New ELO game neverquits1 (Axis) vs Pekkavilamoura (Allies)

[El_Condoro]

ELO Ended:
ElvisJJonesRambo (Axis) defeated El_Condoro (Allies)

A fun game that went to the end, although it was decided well before that. Elvis plays a mean game and played a well-deserved win.