The Red Bloodbath (Sickle and Hammer) - HLYA (Soviet) vs JasonBroomer (Axis)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Jasonbroomer graciously accepted a match again after our first match timed out due to my wife's near fatal car accident. Thank you Jasonbroomer for taking up the match again. Having said that I did try and resurrect that game with the help of Joel, but the game had already disappeared. Thank you so much Joel & team for your efforts.

JB & I are already on turn 3 & moving right along. When the turns progress far enough I am sure JB will start his AAR from the German point of view. This AAR will be Soviet side trying to survive "grinding" and "mass German grinding" to the Soviets. I will not be playing haphazardly in this game as I did before in my last match with another opponent. I will have to pay attention, if I can ever do that that is


Here are the house rules

- Open TB's (yup, full brutality mode "on")
- No Motorization
- No Amphib invasion unless within 5 hexes (inclusive) of the front line that can trace supply by rail (thank you Joel for this House rule)

I like challenges & willing to take my lumps for almost two years to try and turn the tide. Can I do it? I can only try.

Just a note up front that JB and I will be out of our respective countries the whole month of Sept. So there will not be any updates during that time.

Sickle and Hammer.png (52.68 KiB) Viewed 1982 times

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Turn 1

All may comment and add to the AAR anytime.

Keeping T1 info pretty basic.

I send "all" Level bombers to reserves and most of all other planes too. I have kept the Modern fighters (Mig, Yak, and Lagg) on the map meeting my criteria for map placement. I have also kept some IL2 groups on the map too. Having said that here are the plane losses from T1. The yellow arrow shows the German fighter losses. 149 is a drop in the bucket with open TB's, not really meaning much at this stage of the game. I know many have written off the Air war but I like messing with it a great deal. Going to see what I can do against the Germans now, pretty sure I will fail miserably

T1 Air results.png (1.83 MiB) Viewed 1974 times

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Turn 1

Losses


Nothing much to see here but posting for reference

T1 Losses.png (571.44 KiB) Viewed 1972 times

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Turn 1

JB's opener against me.


The first photo looks like the pocket can be opened if I want to in the North.

T1 1.png (4.49 MiB) Viewed 1971 times

T1 2.png (3.91 MiB) Viewed 1971 times

T1 3.png (4.46 MiB) Viewed 1971 times

T1 4.png (3.92 MiB) Viewed 1971 times

JB next to the rail so sealing pretty much most of the Soviet units down here to walking out. I know that JB would be ready for a large scale bombing this time(since I did it too him last time) I just did not do it nor attempt to open the Rum railway access out for the units. I just write those units off and try and save as many as I can from the impeding doom.

I could have opened the pocket to the Northwest of Proskurov but would have used a good TOE mech only to lose it next turn. I decide not to do it and just accept the loss.

[M60A3TTS]

I know many have written off the Air war

Not this puppy.

It's fairly obvious that recon missions are flying turn 1 by the newest Axis players only. Word's gotten around.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

I know many have written off the Air war

Not this puppy.

It's fairly obvious that recon missions are flying turn 1 by the newest Axis players only. Word's gotten around.

I stand corrected, I stand corrected on my hasty generalization

[jubjub]

Looks like the pocket in the south may be able to be opened too.

[jasonbroomer]

Looks like the pocket in the south may be able to be opened too.

Indeed it can but not without injecting troops from the outside which are prepared to be sealed back into a new pocket the following turn.

I accept that my version of Rovno pocket is somewhat porous but this matters little as AGS has all the time in the world while FBDs do their thing. It only takes 2-3 divisions from 2nd Pz Group, which should help keep the Soviets honest in the north and centre.

[jasonbroomer]

Turn 1

JB next to the rail so sealing pretty much most of the Soviet units down here to walking out. I know that JB would be ready for a large scale bombing this time(since I did it too him last time) I just did not do it nor attempt to open the Rum railway access out for the units. I just write those units off and try and save as many as I can from the impeding doom.

I could have opened the pocket to the Northwest of Proskurov but would have used a good TOE mech only to lose it next turn. I decide not to do it and just accept the loss.

Indeed I was. IV Rum Corps was put under Lwft 4 GS cover and a AS programme fly above that blocking Rom division.

I still can't work out how HLYA routed that Rom division (protected by a small river) on turn 1 last game. I've tried to replicate it and couldn't even come close!

[jasonbroomer]

I was pretty pleased with my opening in this game. I screwed up the northern pocket thanks to the surprising retreat route by the motorised division in Riga (hey ho I'm still learning) but managed to avoid my usual mistakes in the south and centre, so made good progress there. I'm 97% satisfied with my opener, I still think AGC could be doing better things to Soviet formations east of Minsk

In this game I followed HLYA advice and hit the units in the north and centre pockets (taking advantage of T1 reduced MP costs for attacks). It does cut down on the Axis admin in t2 and helps with the momentum as these pocket are easy to clear in t2. I shall repeat in my next game.

Some shots from the German prospective

T1 North,.png (3.87 MiB) Viewed 1839 times

T1 South half Rovno.png (2.57 MiB) Viewed 1839 times

The critical FBD routes have been hidden

On error that I made was allowing troops to rout to the highlighted error. If I was prepared to displace them it is possible to reach Vitebsk

One thing that I will add to HLYA's excellent Rovno guide it to use the GD brigade to DA the tank division SW of Lvov (just outside of the Southern front trigger zone). Win or lose doesn't matter, it will reduce the tank division's MP allowance to ensure that it can't escape the pocket formed when you drive south to meet up with AGA on t2.

[jasonbroomer]

Turn 1

All may comment and add to the AAR anytime.

Keeping T1 info pretty basic.

I send "all" Level bombers to reserves and most of all other planes too. I have kept the Modern fighters (Mig, Yak, and Lagg) on the map meeting my criteria for map placement. I have also kept some IL2 groups on the map too. Having said that here are the plane losses from T1. The yellow arrow shows the German fighter losses. 149 is a drop in the bucket with open TB's, not really meaning much at this stage of the game. I know many have written off the Air war but I like messing with it a great deal. Going to see what I can do against the Germans now, pretty sure I will fail miserably



T1 Air results.png

I confess that I don't try to finesse the air war much. Looking forward (?) to learn from HLYA useful things that the VVS can do

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Turn 3 was submitted to Jasonbroomer about two hours ago. I have to say I find it frightfully painful dealing with the Corps HQ's of the Soviets. Maybe in my game with K62 with the OB changes I will do a walk through of my soviet first turn of every single unit with commentary . Hmmmmm that would be a nightmare indeed!!!! The one for Germany took me forever, only to get trashed on in the end. At least it is still going strong helping people out in the game. (it was locked around 2,500ish post. As of today it is at 13,627.

count.png (192.79 KiB) Viewed 1758 times

I just don't know how helpful a Soviet walktrough would be since there would be so many variables

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Looks like the pocket in the south may be able to be opened too.

100% correct. It could be opened up with the 131st Mech Div. I decided not to open the pocket and save the Mech Division. At this stage of the game the Soviets need every single "unit" they can get their hands on just to lay down speed bumps. With the fact of many units not getting out of the extended Lvov pocket I gave the pocket a thumbs down and will be terminated for the life of 131st Mech Div. Was it the right choice? /shrug but it is my choice.

T1 Pocket opened Could have.png (984.66 KiB) Viewed 1756 times

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Turn 1

All may comment and add to the AAR anytime.

Keeping T1 info pretty basic.

I send "all" Level bombers to reserves and most of all other planes too. I have kept the Modern fighters (Mig, Yak, and Lagg) on the map meeting my criteria for map placement. I have also kept some IL2 groups on the map too. Having said that here are the plane losses from T1. The yellow arrow shows the German fighter losses. 149 is a drop in the bucket with open TB's, not really meaning much at this stage of the game. I know many have written off the Air war but I like messing with it a great deal. Going to see what I can do against the Germans now, pretty sure I will fail miserably



T1 Air results.png

I confess that I don't try to finesse the air war much. Looking forward (?) to learn from HLYA useful things that the VVS can do

I give you a small example in Turn 3's air war . The forum will have to wait for turn 3's writeup though.

I can 100% tell you that the Air war is different after the last patch. The interloperability between Air HQ and air base (check you air base (the color of the airbase) and your assigned Air HQ to that airbase) can and will throw your air directives out of whack if you are not careful(not going into detail here)

The auto intercept now (not AS), also known as basic interception in my book, is off the chart. I have had Migs in the game fly their full distance to "basic" intercept with a horrid commander over & over & over only to decimate themselves to death when I did not want that. I really wish there was a "range" for aircraft to fly out from(three is NO range for basic interception, it just happens. OR at least give us a new directive for basic interception for that range like everything else with air directives). It truly is needed since with basic interception the only switch that can be thrown is to put them on "rest" not to fly. Really needs a fix in my opinion. Otherwise I will be spending extra time to put fatigued fighters on rest or fly them to the rear because of the enhanced interception of basic interception (not AS). ALTHOUGH you can have the planes assigned to AS and those same planes will fly basic interception defeating the purpose of AS if you only want to use those planes say in an Enemy phase, or in your Friendly phase but will end up scrambling and messing up what you are trying to do. So you really have to be cognitive of the Air war even MORE so now than before. But at least it is easier now for those that wanted higher interception with out having to do the AS. Now AS pretty much is 2nd fiddle and not as important. You are going to intercept.

My appeal is please put in range(or a directive for basic interception) to fly like what was done in WITE1 because of interception now. At least with the range we will not have to jerry rig aircraft placement or put on rest planes during the turn.

Ok, off soap box.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Turn 1

I opened the West Riga pocket marked in yellow. The South Riga pocket I was 1 MP shy of opening the pocket using rail ZOC move (by detraining in the dense and moving 1 hex forward to the light forest to exert the ZOC) Marked in red.

T1 North Pocket.png (3.54 MiB) Viewed 1743 times

[K62]

Maybe in my game with K62 with the OB changes I will do a walk through of my soviet first turn of every single unit with commentary . Hmmmmm that would be a nightmare indeed!!!!

I thought you were supposed to play Axis in that game?!

(It was part of the discussion about how Axis grinding tactics are unstoppable in '42 etc.)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Turn 1

Accolades to Jasonbroomer here. In the north I was sooooooooooooo desperate for an Army HQ I had to bring one from the Center area and replace the commander(which I rarely do but had to do it in this game). Every single Army HQ is in the pocket from the NE Front, painful . Well done JB.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Maybe in my game with K62 with the OB changes I will do a walk through of my soviet first turn of every single unit with commentary . Hmmmmm that would be a nightmare indeed!!!!

I thought you were supposed to play Axis in that game?!

(It was part of the discussion about how Axis grinding tactics are unstoppable in '42 etc.)

We each play each side. How about that?

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Maybe in my game with K62 with the OB changes I will do a walk through of my soviet first turn of every single unit with commentary . Hmmmmm that would be a nightmare indeed!!!!

I thought you were supposed to play Axis in that game?!

(It was part of the discussion about how Axis grinding tactics are unstoppable in '42 etc.)

We each play each side. How about that?

But I do have to say I am not much in the mood to play Germany lately . I have the Soviet urge since I don't have as much time as Soviets.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

But yeah, I am going to have to keep it to two games. What-ever-we-decide I can only do one side since I can only do two games and I am sure this game will go for awhile with JB.