HOI3

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Joram
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RE: HOI3

Post by Joram »

Admittedly am prejudiced by what did happen Judge vs what could have happened but still have a hard time believing that the French were so well supplied and more importantly, organized in Sept '39 that they could have launched a major offensive from day 1.  But like I said, I'm going to give the demo another shot and see if there is something I am not doing right that is allowing France to be so successful.
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JudgeDredd
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RE: HOI3

Post by JudgeDredd »

I guess you are right - French were not really organised nor had the leadership in place iirc.
 
But my main point was simply that the game just isn't meant to be historical in the "true" meaning of the word. I have no problem with what the game is achieving and therefore can enjoy it for what it is - but I am not as hard core with my history and gaming as perhaps you are. I require levels of accuracy - but they are very lite - for example, with the units on the Polish front at the start of the game - I just wouldn't have a scooby if they are the correct units or not, if they are made up or extras thrown it - I wouldn't have a scooby.
 
On the other hand, I would like my World War II game to start in 1939 - not 2007 - so my levels of historical requirement in games is extremely limited. [:D]
 
Oh - and I meant to say, the main reason I don't care that FRance is attacking and doing so well is because of the above - but also it shows an aggressive AI - and in strategic games, they are all too absent from too many games.
 
I'm fairly sure there will be a way to stave the French off - whether it be winning in Poland quicker and getting units back to puch the French back, or whether it's simply learning to do two things at once (maybe should get the wife involved!!) [;)]
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Terminus
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RE: HOI3

Post by Terminus »

Yawn... More Hearts of Iron; could we milk this old engine just a little bit more, Paradox?
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JudgeDredd
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RE: HOI3

Post by JudgeDredd »

Maybe Termy - but they seem to do alright with sales.
 
Like the game or loath it and like their business model or not - they are no different to alot of other companies - revamping stuff and adding extra content is a popular business model and obviously one that works.
 
Besides - it's up to individuals to see whether enough has been added worth making a new purchase. They had my money when they increased the number of regions so dramatically and added the Group, Army, Corps, Division options.
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Terminus
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RE: HOI3

Post by Terminus »

Never said it wasn't up to the individual. I'm an individual, and I'm not giving Paradox any more of my money. They've disappointed me too many times.
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geozero
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RE: HOI3

Post by geozero »

Advanced Water = the oceans can be toggled to be represented as a simple "blue" color, or a more complex (advanced?) graphical representation. Perhaps since the world's surface is mostly water, the solid blue color helps rendering and thus reduces lagging. Great feature BTW. Anything that allows user customization is a big welcome. Downside, the ocean areas text is harder to read when the water is blue.

Map Distortion / Inconsistencies = I did find some issues with city placements and even boundaries. There were some issues with boundaries along the U.S./ Canadian border, but then again, I'm sure this is one are where 99.99% of the time you will not be looking at for anything... I find it disturbing for some people to try to find these little issues with a game not yet released when some other games are so attrociusly wrong with their maps, OOB's and gameplay (and that's trying to only simulate 1939-45 Europe). A game engine like HOI3 which goes waaaaay beyond that has done a really good job IMHO. I don't understand all the bashing... the OP only stated if you'd be buying it or not, but as always it turns into a discussion of gameplay and which is better, mine or yours. When the answer is neither. Each game provides each player a different level of immersson and satisfaction. As JudgeDredd stated somewhere above, I'd rather play a WW2 "era" game where I "can" change the course of history, not just replay the same damn war, which you should already know by now how it ended. Duh.

HOI 3 engine = It's a newer engine and nothing like the HOI 1 or 2 series. Sorry Termy. I must disagree with you here. Flame away if you need to. Though I will say that with so many provinces they might have gone to hexes (maybe HOI 4). Still as a fan of board games, I do seem to ALSO like areas instead of hexes. It's the reason RISK was always a highly played game... and still is. I played a second time last night and noticed a few more things. For one, you really have to use "tactics" to defeat the enemy. I played only until Sept. 28 as Germany but was able to reach Warsaw on three sides, destroy large portions of Polish army or encircle much of them. In France, the AI seems over aggressive. The French had and did take opportunity in the real war to attack Germany, but only to try to get Germany back to the bargaining table to stop the Polish aggression. In HOI3 the French army acts more like the German, very aggressive. Though they seem to attack in the same southern most provinces. Knowing this I sent large reinforcements Day 1, and lost 2 provinces but the French lost a lot of men. Interesting.

Patches Needed = As noted above the French AI is too aggressive IMO. There is a bit of lagging. The smooth map scroll can be slowed down in Options if it's too fast for you. With so many provinces, and the way the map zooms in and changes view might distort it and cause Paradox to places cities lsightly out of whack. But overall this is not a deal killer for me. I imagine that Paradox (like Matrix or any other game company) must meet deadlines and deliver games, and stay solvent. For all we know they may already have the patches done that we are all discussing here fruitlessly.

In conclusion to answer the OP, HELL YES I'm buying the game. It's the only WW2 era game that covers the entire WAR and beyond!!! [:D] It's the only war game of its kind with the amount of detail it has.

Bashing the game really is disspointing to see here in the forums, especially by so many notable people. I understand that you don't like HOI 3, it's not your cup of tea, or whatever, but a simple not buying would suffice. [:D]
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Joram
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RE: HOI3

Post by Joram »

ORIGINAL: geozero
As JudgeDredd stated somewhere above, I'd rather play a WW2 "era" game where I "can" change the course of history, not just replay the same damn war, which you should already know by now how it ended. Duh.

Agree with you both completely however my preliminary concern is that it doesn't even start on a historical basis which may explain the French juggernaut. I have no issues with the AI making completely different choices from history as long as those choices are framed by the conditions of the time. But if the launching point isn't even right, then I suspect the parameters for all the choices are probably off in which case you might as well be playing on a random map in a random war. I can play CoH or Blitzkrieg if I want that kind of game. :)

I'm going to test it out more of course to be sure I am not the issue. If I can't figure it out however, then simply no sale. Not a flame of Paradox or HOI3, just it isn't what I'd be looking for.
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geozero
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RE: HOI3

Post by geozero »

ORIGINAL: Joram

ORIGINAL: geozero
As JudgeDredd stated somewhere above, I'd rather play a WW2 "era" game where I "can" change the course of history, not just replay the same damn war, which you should already know by now how it ended. Duh.

Agree with you both completely however my preliminary concern is that it doesn't even start on a historical basis which may explain the French juggernaut. I have no issues with the AI making completely different choices from history as long as those choices are framed by the conditions of the time. But if the launching point isn't even right, then I suspect the parameters for all the choices are probably off in which case you might as well be playing on a random map in a random war. I can play CoH or Blitzkrieg if I want that kind of game. :)

I'm going to test it out more of course to be sure I am not the issue. If I can't figure it out however, then simply no sale. Not a flame of Paradox or HOI3, just it isn't what I'd be looking for.


That's a respectable approach.

To be sure I found the German OOB in 1939 to be somewhat unrealistic. At least in terms of aircraft. And then there's the French thing...

Also I've always played the HOI games from the 1936 starting point allowing ME to produce what I want and in some ways recreate the war on MY terms. Otherwise I'd just watch the History Channel. [:D]

One last thing not to be overlooked and perhaps will lead people to wait is the huge amount of MODS within the HOI community. For sure playing with Mods always was more realistic.
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Terminus
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RE: HOI3

Post by Terminus »

So we're not allowed to speak our minds to the same extent that you are, just because you happen to like what you see, and we don't? Sucks to be you then, doesn't it?

And I'm not "bashing" HOI3. I'm bashing Paradox for failing to come up with new stuff, just like so many other game publishers fail as well. I played the original Hearts of Iron to death, just like I did with Crusader Kings and Victoria, but after that, it's all been "blah" to me.
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RE: HOI3

Post by jjdenver »

ORIGINAL: Terminus
So we're not allowed to speak our minds to the same extent that you are, just because you happen to like what you see, and we don't? Sucks to be you then, doesn't it?

Whoa? Defensive much? I didn't see anyone say you can't speak your mind. You seem to be doing that just fine. Pls continue with your bashing.
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Terminus
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RE: HOI3

Post by Terminus »

Well, apparently it was "disappointing" to a previous poster that we were "bashing" HOI3, so there apparently is some sort of line that one doesn't cross...[8|]
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RE: HOI3

Post by geozero »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I played the original Hearts of Iron to death, just like I did with Crusader Kings and Victoria, but after that, it's all been "blah" to me.


Terminus, how was Victoria, that's one game I always wanted to play but never got around to getting. It's pretty cheap these days. I think there was an add-on that was to extend the timeline and add other features. Anyway it seems interesting.

As for HOI, if the last time you played it was the original HOI years ago (and perhaps not the HOI 2 DD series), then I would say take another look at HOI 3. It really is quite different.

I'm sure their marketing team has researched the user base out there, and (like many games found on this site) there is a lot of repeat business. I know I've bought many games from different companies because of their "reputation" only to be highly dissapointed. That started waaaay back with TalonSoft and other companies of the era. I guess that's why they folded too. So you're right about companies having to evolve. I really do think HOI 3 will be a fun game and perhaps the last of it's series. The next generation will hopefully be better.

And if your last experience was original HOI, then I think you will miss out on a lot... but I see that you're probably neck deep in AE. [:D]
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RE: HOI3

Post by Hertston »

ORIGINAL: geozero

Bashing the game really is disspointing to see here in the forums, especially by so many notable people. I understand that you don't like HOI 3, it's not your cup of tea, or whatever, but a simple not buying would suffice. [:D]

I can't see that anybody has 'bashed' it? [&:]



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Qwixt
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RE: HOI3

Post by Qwixt »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Never said it wasn't up to the individual. I'm an individual, and I'm not giving Paradox any more of my money. They've disappointed me too many times.

I am leery of paradox as well. They seem like a B class type operation from my past experience with their games.
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SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
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RE: HOI3

Post by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer »

It seems odd to me that paradox games are mega popular considering they are just the same tired old engine using different sprites and national parameters every time.  It must take their team only a few weeks at most to bang off a new game and then rake in millions of dollars in sales while they make the patches that are needed to finish the game.  My friend bought one called Caesar or Rome I think and he played it for like 1 or 2 hours before permantly stashing it away never to be seen again in his piles of junk.
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RE: HOI3

Post by doomtrader »

@SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
HoI 3 is third game on The Clausewitz engine, so I don't think it could be called old and tired.
I also don't think that making such game takes only several weeks, and I think saying like that is unfair. It has been annouced a year ago, so we might assume it takes at least a year.

BTW: dumping off a a game by wargamer after an hour or two of play doesn't seems as a reasonable acting.
Just my two cents.
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RE: HOI3

Post by doomtrader »

ORIGINAL: geozero

Terminus, how was Victoria, that's one game I always wanted to play but never got around to getting. It's pretty cheap these days. I think there was an add-on that was to extend the timeline and add other features. Anyway it seems interesting.

I'm not a Terminus, but I might say that Victoria is very good game (but I didn't played with add-on), but tooks me most time to learn basics, from all Paradox games.
I also think it's most difficult in terms of surviving if you are not playing a major country.
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RE: HOI3

Post by Widell »

As for "historical accuracy", based on history, there will be a tonne of mods to meet 99% of all game flavours different players want. Then they need to fix a few issues with the map.
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RE: HOI3

Post by Joram »

ORIGINAL: Widell

As for "historical accuracy", based on history, there will be a tonne of mods to meet 99% of all game flavours different players want. Then they need to fix a few issues with the map.
Yeah probably. But I don't buy a game just to wait for some nice person to mod it like I want. I'll wait till hit's £5.99 at the bargain bin for that.
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RE: HOI3

Post by yoshino »

I'm with you.Joram.
Perhaps,I'll wait for 6 months or a year...
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