Hello

[shunwick]

I tried waiting patiently for TOS:WS to arrive but, since it is now over a month since I ordered it and apparently no nearer my letter box, I have just bought the download version. It's a good job it's a reasonable price.

I shall install it tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

Best wishes,

[LarkinVB]

Have fun with.

Larkin

[shunwick]

LarkinVB,

Thanks.

These are probably stupid questions because I have only had chance for a cursory look at the game and a very quick peruse of the manual but I don't remember seeing anything concerning a game editor. I know there is a map editor in the folder but I don't see a scenario editor. What am I missing?

The other thing is that the download file says version 1.2.1 and there is 1.2.1 patch in the member's area. I am thinking that the download version has the patch already installed. The thing is I can't seem to find an "about" button so that I can confirm the version number from within the game. What do you think?

Best wishes,

[LarkinVB]

The game should be 1.2.1. There is the version displayed in some screens but I don't remember which ones.

The editor with the game is only a map editor. The campaign editor was never finished for distribution but I can send you the latest version we used to create the official campaigns. It is functional but not that easy to use and the documentation is lacking. You can have it as is - no support.

[shunwick]

ORIGINAL: LarkinVB

The game should be 1.2.1. There is the version displayed in some screens but I don't remember which ones.

The editor with the game is only a map editor. The campaign editor was never finished for distribution but I can send you the latest version we used to create the official campaigns. It is functional but not that easy to use and the documentation is lacking. You can have it as is - no support.

LarkinVB,

Thanks, I figured the game was 1.2.1 already but I wasn't sure.

As for the campaign editor, yes please. I can have fun tinkering with it.

Best wishes,

[Aensland]

Hope you enjoy the game, it's really fun. I wrote the 2 FAQs on GameFAQs for this game (could use some improvement [;)] ), and still play it all the time. Even with the editor I'm nowhere near good enough to produced balanced scenarios like the official campaigns - a lot of work went into them and it shows. [:)]
 
I don't really mind the sparse background story, like Rainbow says it's just a nice backdrop. However this means you have great leeway for designing your own campaigns. Bringing up my own two squads through the original ones gave me the idea of a travelling mercenary-for-hire kind of thing. Getting attached to your squad helps motivation immensely, although if you lose jocks you might get frustrated.

[shunwick]

I've spent a couple of hours going through the tutorial scenario and trying to remember all the various controls. The move and attack menu thing is a little confusing at first but I am slowly getting the hang of it.

It took me a looong time to kill the first unarmed titan just by shooting at it with lasers and machine guns.

There seems to be a lot to learn. Not that this is a problem but I guess I not going to become proficient at it any time soon. Looks good though. I am having fun with it so far.

Best wishes,

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: shunwick

It took me a looong time to kill the first unarmed titan just by shooting at it with lasers and machine guns.

Usually Titans and BattleMechs are tougher nuts to crack than tanks (by any rules): there are bit more parts to destroy and one destroyed part, such as arm, don't necessarily even slow Titan/'Mech down. It takes lots of fire and tons of ammo to bring those beasts down.

[shunwick]

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: shunwick

It took me a looong time to kill the first unarmed titan just by shooting at it with lasers and machine guns.

Usually Titans and BattleMechs are tougher nuts to crack than tanks (by any rules): there are bit more parts to destroy and one destroyed part, such as arm, don't necessarily even slow Titan/'Mech down. It takes lots of fire and tons of ammo to bring those beasts down.

Matti,

You're right, it takes some serious mauling to put a titan out of action. Did you track down tos 1.4? What do you think of it?

Best wishes,

[Aensland]

Starting out, feel free to devote one squad member to hand-to-hand combat. Chances of landing a good hit are better with point blank melee. The only problems I remember is getting caught in an engine explosion if you smash the other guy too hard [;)] The AI doesn't like losing limbs though, so if you can tear off arms and legs that's a great way of forcing surrenders.
 
(Needless to say I learned to eject when losing limbs too, it doesn't pay to be a hero [:D] )

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Did you track down tos 1.4? What do you think of it?

I gave it test run in end of last year. It looks fine, but not fine enough for me to spend my little money for Warring Suns. I'll stick with MegaMek, MekWars and Steel Panthers World at War.

Has anyone played all of those games and give some comparisons? Hertston, does ToS WS have something worth of money than cost free MegaMek don't have? I know single player campaigns are one, what else?

[LarkinVB]

Has anyone played all of those games and give some comparisons? Hertston, does ToS WS have something worth of money that cost free MegaMek don't have? I know single player campaigns are one, what else?

Better AI. Better grafics + sound. Better core rule system. Better turn system. Better pilot skill system. Better ...

[shunwick]

The move and attack system takes some getting used to.  Trying to coordinate four Titans to take out a single enemy is the stuff of nightmares at the moment.  I am not saying it's bad.  Just that I haven't got used to it yet.  It's fun though.  I'm having a blast.  [:)]
 
Best wishes,
 

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: LarkinVB

Better AI.

Define better. And version & date of MegaMek you are comparing this. MM definitely has slow AI, but I guess it's just being thorough or something...

Better grafics + sound.

Not worth of money.

Better core rule system.

Again, please define better. Also brief descriptions about some of the rules which are better than on MM or CBT.

Turn system probably deserves point when it's been learned and I have idea about how long list of skills jockey has. Those are nice things which leave even SPWAW on shame. But then, imagine controlling tens of Titans in one game! I don't think it's meant for that and game's restricted numbers of Titans are AC/20 bullet proof for that.

[shunwick]

Matti,

I think LarkinVB's "better" list is comparing TOS:WS with TOS 1.4.

As for comparing WS with MegaMek, I don't think any comparison is useful since the only thing they seem to have in common is the concept of the mech or titan.

I can tell you that WS looks like a finished product. I can tell you that I am having a lot of fun at the moment. I can tell you that if WS had 100s of titans on each side the game would be an unplayable nightmare. As a novice to the game, I am having difficulty coordinating 4 v 1. I can see myself improving over time but to control 100s of titans? Not unless every time slice in the game takes about a week to plan and execute.

If MegaMek allows battles between 100s of mechs, then the movement and attack system must be simplistic compared to WS which is why I think comparisons between the two are essentially meaningless.

Would I have prefered to see units other than titans? Possibly, but then I also understand why, within the WS game system, such units are not missed.

As far as I can tell, and keep in mind that I am not an authority on either WS or MegaMech, trying to compare the two programmes is like trying to compare TOAW with SPWAW. It's possible to like both, or one or the other, or neither.

TOS 1.4 probably gives you the best idea of the game-play of WS.

I am sorry that I cannot be of more help.

Best wishes,

[Aensland]

It's not too hard to keep track; give your squad members roles (gunner, flanker, support etc) to remember who has to do what easier, and hunt in formation, as opposed to scattering to cover more map area.


Got any links (reviews, etc) to the games mentioned? MegaMek, MekWars, Steel Panthers World at War. I do know of the first two (aren't they old? I can't find them on GameSpot or even Moby Games), but haven't played them. The last appears to be another title carried by Matrix Games.


Edit:
Okay, here's MegaMek's wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MegaMek
Hey, I do recall reading about this project a (long) while ago. Good to hear it's still progressing. Basically it seems to be directly based on the FASA tabletop game BattleTech. MekWars (and MegaMekNET) are campaign engines wrapped around MegaMek. From the few screenshots I could dig up, it certainly doesn't outshine ToSWS (not that I, or most of us, really care), but I was more interested in finding out how deep it plays. Couldn't find any images showing stats although I could see each Mek has tabs for movement, armor, weapons, systems. If any MegaMek player would care to give a summary, it would be great. Still, the sprites are a little too basic for my liking.

On the other hand... Steel Panthers appears to be about WW2 (tanks, planes) - I'm not really interested in non-mech based TBS games. Well, I do still play Empire Deluxe, and am seriously contemplating getting Killer Bee Software's updated Internet Edition - but Empire's a special case. I must say though that the random map component is a big factor, as well as the relative hugeness of the maps compared to other TBS wargames. Plus that nostalgic factor


Back to Titans of Steel: Warring Suns...
The main draw of ToSWS for me are the rpg aspects of your squad, and the random maps. The massive MegaMek battles do sound interesting, but I really like the way you own and bring up a squad in ToSWS. The AI is pretty damn good in ToSWS; I've praised it before and I'll praise it again. The random map encounters can also be customised a lot - tonnage advantage, allied squads, that sort of thing. Real flexible. I also like the time-based turn system; all the commercial big studio mech games I've played or read about are either hairtrigger real time hooey, or simplistic my-turn-your-turn crap. ToSWS is my favourite TBS mech game, bar none.

[shunwick]

Aensland,

I am only just starting out on learning the game and the whole sci-fi mech thing is brand new to me but I am getting better little by little. I like the RPG element of the game as well. In the end it's all about gameplay and how deeply involved in it one gets. The RPG element helps in this last respect.

Thanks for the tips. As I learn about the game they are a good to have as roadmap.

Best wishes,

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: Aensland

Got any links (reviews, etc) to the games mentioned? MegaMek, MekWars, Steel Panthers World at War.

Look at my signature and click on link there.

Anyways ToS is based on Classic BattleTech but takes some liberties from it, like scale (1/3 kilometer per hex). MegaMek follows rules of CBT nearly by letter. If you know CBT, only thing you need learn from MM is user interface (what this button does etc.). Graphics are good enough to distinguish different 'Mech variants.

For more info about MegaMek & MekWars, check out Free strategy games on General Discussion

[Aensland]

Matti: in MegaMek, do you get to "own" a squad, where you take them through battles and they gain experience? That roleplay aspect plus random maps is usually what I look for in a mech tbs game. The large-scale battles sound interesting, too. While I don't think I can personally handle 100 vs 100 (unless combat is simpler), ToSWS's 8-per-Squad limit is kinda small. Also, I am not familiar with the CBT rules. Also, it seems to me the MegaMekNET campaign thing is online? Player rank experience affects quality of units you can deploy? It looks fun, but honestly I don't like multiplayer. Time is a big reason why.

I really like strategy wargames with mechs, but just pushing generic nameless units around (hero #1, hero #2, etc)  makes it hard to care. Despite that, it's why I like Empire, the map can be so large you need to think about the bigger picture - can't afford to get attached to individual units. On the other hand with mech games I prefer a more personal touch.

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: Aensland

Matti: in MegaMek, do you get to "own" a squad, where you take them through battles and they gain experience?

Yes. At end of scenario surviving units can be saved to file. If limited repairs are wanted to be done, that file can be opened with Notepad and edited (MM itself don't have GUI for that). Crew skills (MechWarriors, tank crews etc.) can be modified by game's interface. These things must be done by player, game itself don't do them for you.

While I don't think I can personally handle 100 vs 100 (unless combat is simpler)

It isn't impossible, it just takes time and computer resources. Action happens in turns, just like in Empire (Deluxe). However even for top-end computers hundreds of units might be bit too much for AI to handle: more units on the map, more time it takes for AI to move one.

it seems to me the MegaMekNET campaign thing is online?

MegaMekNET is name of MekWars server. MekWars is MMO type game. Players join to different factions to fight for Inner Sphere (=known space). Major point to match forces of opposing players is Battle Value: numerical value about how good force player has. When Battle Values of opposing players are close enough, they can play game. Planets change owners, units get experience, players get and lose units and so on.

I really like strategy wargames with mechs, but just pushing generic nameless units around (hero #1, hero #2, etc) makes it hard to care.

In CBT and thus in MM and MW MechWarriors can be named. When it comes to vehicles and infantry, commanding officer's name is given.