Aircraft and AFV changes

[Veterin]

• Aircraft weapons were using penetration value when attacking AFVs when they should have been using anti-armor value. Fixed.


I haven't updated to the 1.03.03 beta patch as some aspects look unplayable in its current form. Not sure if this was intended but the changes to aircraft weapons on AFVs looks well overdone. Here are 2 examples were a hasty attack from a weak soviet attack that had no chance of remotely winning is doing significant damage to AFVs. Using this tactic, soviets have enough aircraft to simply wreck all AFVs in 41 with little counter available.

1.png (647.26 KiB) Viewed 1022 times

2.png (606.67 KiB) Viewed 1022 times

[Beethoven1]

Seems clear enough it is too strong now.

[Zebtucker12]

Looks fine to me going to start making a iraq invasion mod.

[Searry]

Yes it's definitely desert storm right now. No GS house rule sounds so funny it doesn't make sense anymore.

[Joel Billings]

Reports are good but saves are golden. Do you have some saves before attacks so we can recreate your battles? Those that hide away their air force are clearly losing out now.

[Jace11]

Most of the 20mm aircraft mounted cannons have an anti armor value of 24, compare that to a 88mm KWK43 L71 that has an anti armor value of 25.

[Denniss]

Anti-armor value of ground-based guns is HE effect vs armor, penetration HEAT/HVAP counts for them.
Penetration has a different use for air-based guns so we switched to anti-armor value although that may be overrated or is way too effective now.

[Joel Billings]

I just started up the 43 campaign and tried to set up similar battles and I'm not getting anything like what you're getting. But I also am not getting the commitment of as many aircraft as you are. I put the German air force on rest so I could see what the Soviets could do unopposed and was able to get one battle with tons of German AFVs where they lost 5 tanks to 63 IL-2s. Maybe as you have repeated battles and your ammo gets low (so less flak), things get much worse? So please get us some pre-saves for this. Thanks.

[RedJohn]

I just started up the 43 campaign and tried to set up similar battles and I'm not getting anything like what you're getting. But I also am not getting the commitment of as many aircraft as you are. I put the German air force on rest so I could see what the Soviets could do unopposed and was able to get one battle with tons of German AFVs where they lost 5 tanks to 63 IL-2s. Maybe as you have repeated battles and your ammo gets low (so less flak), things get much worse? So please get us some pre-saves for this. Thanks.

Hi Joel,

I have a number of old games I'm using to look at ground attack - identifying saves where there are exposed panzers and whatnot to bomb. So far it looks like AFV losses are incredibly high.



An example. All through bombing. Previously you might get this once in a blue moon.

All of my saves are particularly old though, so is it worth sending you them?

[RedJohn]

Here's another one. These are basically uncontested raids, of course, but even so I think nearly wiping out 150+ panzers just by bombing is a bit much.

I will go and set up a test game now on a fresh patch and see if I can replicate these.

[RedJohn]

Hi,

So I set up a test game. Axis airforce has been set to rest, I've put panzers on the frontline, and each Soviet front has a different type of plane attached. Each front also has a ground attack target (with no shared targets). It's not exactly ideal field conditions for a lot of reasons, but I've not had the opportunity to play a H2H yet and get that far as Soviets.

I ran the default settings ground attacks I set up, and, well, the results speak for themselves:



Happy to provide a save if anyone is able to tell me how to upload .psvs.

[Nikel]

Zip the file before attaching.

[RedJohn]

There we go. For anyone who wants to test it themselves, the password for both sides is blank (empty).

[Wiedrock]

There we go. For anyone who wants to test it themselves, the password for both sides is blank (empty).

Loading up the game I don't have any Soviet ADs set which you mentioned.

[Joel Billings]

I also don't see any ADs set up in the h save.

[RedJohn]

I also don't see any ADs set up in the h save.

I decided to clear them before uploading, as I always leave my directives to default and don't mess with them. I figured more experienced players would have cleared them and set up their own.

Anyway, I have set up default ones which do 2 ground attacks on each hex.

[Veterin]

I also don't see any ADs set up in the h save.

I decided to clear them before uploading, as I always leave my directives to default and don't mess with them. I figured more experienced players would have cleared them and set up their own.

Anyway, I have set up default ones which do 2 ground attacks on each hex.

666 AFVs destroyed. Evil bread!

[Joel Billings]

Thanks for the save. In your save you've got 14000+ uncontested bomber sorties against Panzer divisions, with 250 aircraft lost. We agree the AFV losses are too high now, and we're accumulating saves and will be looking at it this week. The system before was basically preventing any AFV kills of armored targets, so that wasn't working. Looks like the first fix overshot the mark. These kinds of "testing grounds" saves are very useful, but also seeing saves from more normal games where bombers are facing some opposition will also be useful. We don't want to go back to a situation where the AFVs can't be destroyed and damaged by aircraft, and the more different saves we get the better. I'm also interested in seeing ground support in ground combat to see if those battles play out differently than ground attack missions in the air phase. If anyone has any good examples before the attack is launched (so we can repeat it), please attach the saves. Thanks.