TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.9 Download)

[Lothos]

Looked it up, U boats shot down a grand total 116 planes over the course of the whole war. With 96 separate boats registering a kill.

U boats got wrecked by planes either directly or by assets brought to bear when the planes found them.

I don't know what possible improvements were made in subs to protect them from planes short of improving their underwater capabilities and perhaps ability to spot planes. To me that just reads as dive chance increases associated with the advanced sub tech.

I'm not suggesting a change here per say given that you now have 5 levels of naval weapons. Note in this mod CVLs use naval weapons not ASW. The only planes with ASW are Maritime bombers and the US blimp. Those are even less likely to suffer losses from subs than CV/CVL wings are.

For carriers ASW tech was merged into their Naval Tech. I would have to remove the ASW bonuses from it.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Hi Lothos I posted some questions and observations on the last page but you may have missed them. Here they are again.

1) I had read in posts above that terrain bonus properties are not visible. Exactly what is meant by that? In my test where ever I hover over a terrain hex, I see different max entrenchment values. Is there something else I am missing here that's changed in regards to viewing terrain defensive properties? btw I like the concept of stacking terrain types eg. A town on a hill hex for example.

2) Experience for units only up to plus 1. Hqs up to 5. That's fine and I like it. One thing though, is the Malta AA. Before, if the UK took and paid for the DEC to reinforce the AA Unit on Malta, that unit would be 13 strength. Now its only 11 if the DEC is chosen. The price is the same I believe though as before. Is this intended?
Note at times I thought the 13 strength AA unit was a bit too strong, but here with TRP's extra turns, a Malta 11 strength AA unit will be easier to kill for sure. If that is intended I am probably fine with that also but wanted to here your take on this.

[Elessar2]

There was also wear and tear on the aircraft in question, lost in storms or from mechanical failures, landing accidents. Both the Germans and the Americans did beef up their subs' AA capabilities as the war went on. Whether it was better to dive or slug it out on the surface is a different question. Note vanilla doesn't give them the AA tech (in my scenarios they do get it, tho maybe only a max of 1 level would be reasonable).

Also note that radar warning receivers would qualify as AA tech in the broader sense.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

There was also wear and tear on the aircraft in question, lost in storms or from mechanical failures, landing accidents. Both the Germans and the Americans did beef up their subs' AA capabilities as the war went on. Whether it was better to dive or slug it out on the surface is a different question. Note vanilla doesn't give them the AA tech (in my scenarios they do get it, tho maybe only a max of 1 level would be reasonable).

Also note that radar warning receivers would qualify as AA tech in the broader sense.

Yeah Elessar including the option for AA upgrades in your War in the Pacific mod is pretty cool. Wasn't over balanced either and it cost money for the upgrade.

[Lothos]

Hi Lothos I posted some questions and observations on the last page but you may have missed them. Here they are again.

1) I had read in posts above that terrain bonus properties are not visible. Exactly what is meant by that? In my test where ever I hover over a terrain hex, I see different max entrenchment values. Is there something else I am missing here that's changed in regards to viewing terrain defensive properties? btw I like the concept of stacking terrain types eg. A town on a hill hex for example.

2) Experience for units only up to plus 1. Hqs up to 5. That's fine and I like it. One thing though, is the Malta AA. Before, if the UK took and paid for the DEC to reinforce the AA Unit on Malta, that unit would be 13 strength. Now its only 11 if the DEC is chosen. The price is the same I believe though as before. Is this intended?
Note at times I thought the 13 strength AA unit was a bit too strong, but here with TRP's extra turns, a Malta 11 strength AA unit will be easier to kill for sure. If that is intended I am probably fine with that also but wanted to here your take on this.

My appologies, I did read it and thought I responded. Their are two areas you have to look to get all the bonuses. One is to look at the unit itself while it is in the terrain. You will see its defensive numbers get a bonus (looks the same if they had a tech increase).

The other area you need to look is right click and selecting the resource/terrain itself.

I have no control as to how this is being displayed to you unfortunately. It is just important to remember that it is calculating correcting and the bonuses are cumulative.

As for Malta, Taxxman mentioned it to and I have it on my list to look at for the next release.

In regards to subs and AA. The AA is built into the sub tech (I did not add a separate tech). Reason for this is that their wasn't as much retrofitting needed for subs as their is for a ship when these upgrades happen.

One thing to note, giving a max of 1 AA to a unit in tech while everything else can go to 5 is not really a solution due to how the game engine works.

As the manual states a 0 vs 0 Armor unit will do the same damage as a 5 vs 5 armor unit.

So the reason why I have sub defense going up is to negate some of the damage as ASW tech goes up to rebalance it. If you did not do this then in the later years (which I have seen) you will get carriers hitting subs for 6+ damage in one shot.

The only thing I can think of here is to remove ASW effects on aircraft and flat line it from the beginning of the game so that subs do no damage to a plane but a plane can do some damage to a sub. However this is not always guaranteed as the formula is very complex (as stated in the manual) and involves morale, readiness, unit attack vs unit defense (to see if they are balanced or who has the advantage) etc....

[Taxman66]

1. The Show/hide upgrade button does not show the ASW upgrade availability on the Netherland ships owned by the UK.
2. The upgrade tool button (that will do full upgrades, provided MPP availability) does not upgrade ASW on the Netherland ships owned by the UK.

However, the Netherland ships (owned by the UK) can get their ASW upgraded via the <right click> mouse button method.

[Taxman66]

The Pillbox in Halifax is annoying, and can't be disbanded.
If you insist on keeping it, please change the location where the other 'starting' Canadian units show up.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

The Pillbox in Halifax is annoying, and can't be disbanded.
If you insist on keeping it, please change the location where the other 'starting' Canadian units show up.

See if you can put the pillbox on sea transport.
Dirty little secret...I found out I could move the pillbox on Sebastopol to Odessa via transport by sea in my match with Unfortunate Son.
Btw traveling atm so don't have access to the map but if there's a port try what I said.
I didn't like the pillbox in Sevastopol either but found my work around.

[Taxman66]

Neat trick.
Apparently you can also load them up on Amphibs. Now you can hit the beach in style and be protected from machine gun fire in very own AAP Amphibious Assault Pillbox.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Neat trick.
Apparently you can also load them up on Amphibs. Now you can hit the beach in style and be protected from machine gun fire in very own AAP Amphibious Assault Pillbox.

Yeah.

[Lothos]

The Pillbox in Halifax is annoying, and can't be disbanded.
If you insist on keeping it, please change the location where the other 'starting' Canadian units show up.

what pillbox in Hallifax? Their should not be one thier? screenshot? how did it get their?

[Lothos]

The Pillbox in Halifax is annoying, and can't be disbanded.
If you insist on keeping it, please change the location where the other 'starting' Canadian units show up.

See if you can put the pillbox on sea transport.
Dirty little secret...I found out I could move the pillbox on Sebastopol to Odessa via transport by sea in my match with Unfortunate Son.
Btw traveling atm so don't have access to the map but if there's a port try what I said.
I didn't like the pillbox in Sevastopol either but found my work around.

I need to see if I can find a way to stop that.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Maybe just not have a pillbox in Sevastopol?
Anyways it's easy to houserule not transporting or AV that unit.
I forgot to mention this peculiar move I did when Unfortunate Son and I started our MP test with v9.7 back last summer.

[Taxman66]

Or put a Pillbox in the production queue, and let the Allied player decide where he wants it?

Anyway, on the other subject I'm betting the Candian Pillbox is supposed to be an INF DIV.

Halifax Pillbox.jpg (147.85 KiB) Viewed 392 times

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Yep I think its supposed to be a Canadian Inf Div. If this Pillbox is intended though could it be considered as the construction components of a pillbox that you can then ship to a desired location? I know thats a stretch haha but I have an impending MP match coming up soon. Would like to know if we should wait until this gets resolved.

[Lothos]

Or put a Pillbox in the production queue, and let the Allied player decide where he wants it?

Anyway, on the other subject I'm betting the Candian Pillbox is supposed to be an INF DIV.

Halifax Pillbox.jpg

That is a bug, should be a division.

[Lothos]

TRP v1.2.1 Released.

Some people are about to start some MP games and asked to have this fix before they started so I am putting out a small release.

Have fun everyone

########################
# TRP 1.2.1 Europe
########################
- (Bug) Canada, Pillbox removed from production que and replaced with a division.
- (Bug) Adjusted upgrade order for Tactical and Medium Bombers so Ground attack is first.
- (Bug) UK, Malta garrison decision upgrade changed from cost of 45 MPPs to 15 MPPs

[Taxman66]

Recently noticed a few other units that have their upgrades in different orders:

I suggest that Tank Destroyers and Anti Tank units have the Anti-Tank upgrade first (as per vanilla).

AA and Maritime bombers also have their order of upgrades different than vanilla, but I feel a little less strongly about these.

[Lothos]

Recently noticed a few other units that have their upgrades in different orders:

I suggest that Tank Destroyers and Anti-Tank units have the Anti-Tank upgrade first (as per vanilla).

AA and Maritime bombers also have their order of upgrades different than vanilla, but I feel a little less strongly about these.

Yea Tank Destroyer I struggled with that one to. I ended up with Advanced Tanks more because they are more like a tank with a big gun on it. It was not easy decision.

AA, yea because I added the Infantry tech to them, so I put that first, so they get the defensive bonuses if attacked.

Maritime should have Naval first, right?

[Taxman66]

In vanilla Maritime bombers have long range first.

I'd go AT tech first with TD and AT, since it is their primary purpose. Tank only gives defensive bonuses.