So why didn't you buy?

[bcgames]

Thanks for taking the time to provide feedback. Stalingrad is four years down the road from Desert War. Different games at this point--Stalingrad is based on a much improved game engine. Not perfect--but we do our best to incorporate player feedback.

[Saint Ruth]

From what I've seen, it looks like the UI has not changed from Desert War. And that is my main reason for not buying. If it was on Steam, I'd probably risk Stalingrad a go, thanks to the 2 hour refund policy.

Oh, we've tried to improve the UI. You can access unit options etc by right clicking the unit, can select stack by clicking on a hex etc...bit late to rewrite the whole UI though!

[Alan Sharif]

I was waiting for a sale, plus availability of funds. Purchased today and looking forward to playing the game.

[Tom_]

Here are some thoughts I'd like to share.
I have not played much so my thoughts may change as I gain experience. V1.0.2
My reason for doing this is because I'm a fan of WEGO and would like this title to succeed for the overall betterment of strategy games and humankind.

Strengths:

Its WEGO!

Music is nice, captures the mood and theatre and adds to the ambience.

Tool tips are really handy - from details they about hex squares to what units roles are. For example with the engineers (in the tutorial) there is a small piece of text explaining they can clear minefields - yes i know its obvious to most but that little detail, at least for me, is a good. Same with the bridgebuilding units ect.
Further to this the wealth of information regarding a unit when you right click on it, including this like stacking limits. Demonstrates how detailed the game is and thought thats been applied.

Concept of supply allocation. Logistics is so important in war and its great to see this get tackled. Allocating your resources and protecting/attacking supply lines is great.

Display unit option on the left of the screen - saves me having to memorise hotkeys and all the important ones are available, including some I wouldn't have thought to use.

Opportunities:
Movement order - the 3 movements types and how the player uses them - I don't think they should be located at the top left with the map display buttons, doesn't feel like a natural fit. Perhaps they would be better off located with the 'change unit orders' at the top right of the screen. i.e. buttons that perform 'actions' should be located together, while buttons that provide information should be separate. Lastly the arrows on the map - you will know that all militaries have arrows that are symbols to represent the orders, rather and being 'blue' or what have you - Adds to the theme.

Disconnect between movement and setting supply - it requires a 'cognitive effort' which doesn't seem to flow. I know that sounds crazy for people who play strategy games but it still needs a natural flow. For example in Flashpoint Campaigns, when you set a movement order, a box then appears, forcing the user to finish off the last part of the order e.g hold position or screen. This is a really useful quality of life feature.

Time phase & weather display. Could they not be combined? at the moment you have the time phase at the top of the screen which fundamentally works, but I'd argue could look better. Meanwhile you have the weather UI which looks great but doesn't change too much. I wonder if combining the two would give the time phase more aesthetics whilst making the weather button serve more function.

Something that has been mentioned before by others - there seems to be inconsistency between the artwork. The air support/ aircraft pictures are coloured diagrams, the units symbols are black and white outlines with some sorry looking German soldier at the foreground and the weather UI looks like a coloured picture and lastly the hex pictures are just real world pictures. I think picking one style (maybe 2) is important - for what its worth the weather one is my favourite. Or GGWITE2 style where you use 'real' b&w pictures.

Lastly the movement phase itself - (you knew it was coming) ideally units would flow more smoothly - again like flashpoint campaigns. I understand its a mammoth task to change so wont labour the point.

I really hope this feedback is taken in a positive manner - The Opportunities outweigh the Strengths in my diatribe above because I have spent more time on that topic to try support the cause. Its abundantly clear so much hard work and effort has been put in to this game. I would never be able to create something like this and I'm just chirping in from the side-line with no real understand of how games are made.
If this has been useful to the devs I'd be happy to answer any questions or discuss other bits.

[Saint Ruth]

I really hope this feedback is taken in a positive manner - The Opportunities outweigh the Strengths in my diatribe above because I have spent more time on that topic to try support the cause. Its abundantly clear so much hard work and effort has been put in to this game. I would never be able to create something like this and I'm just chirping in from the side-line with no real understand of how games are made.
If this has been useful to the devs I'd be happy to answer any questions or discuss other bits.

Hi Tom, that's great feedback. Some good ideas there all right, especially as I've been looking at this so long, I can see stuff like this. I can have a look at those.
If I understand you, in Flashpoint Campaigns, you pick a unit then have to set the move type, then move it? Won't that also break up the flow? If one is moving many units, having that extra step might become too much?

If you've any other suggestions, keep 'em coming. While I can't get everything in, I will try my best!

Many thanks,
Brian

[TCLT]

Regrettably, I did buy the game. Then, during installation, I was asked to install Java. I have no idea why you are still using Java in this day and age, but I do not install Java on my computers. So I wrote to Slitherine and asked for a refund.
I fully expected a reply saying "sorry, we don't give refunds." What I got was a snide, snotty, obnoxious reply implying it's my fault that Java is not listed on the requirement page for the game and that I should investigate what might be required for installation before buying the game. Normal companies run by normal people use the "Requirements" portion of their web page for this sort of thing and don't expect their customers to be detectives.
Consequently, I won't be playing this game and won't be doing any further business with Matrix/Slitherine.

[Tom_]

, but I do not install Java on my computers.

Just out of curiosity why don't you install Java on your PC?

[Saint Ruth]

Regrettably, I did buy the game. Then, during installation, I was asked to install Java. I have no idea why you are still using Java in this day and age, but I do not install Java on my computers. So I wrote to Slitherine and asked for a refund.
I fully expected a reply saying "sorry, we don't give refunds." What I got was a snide, snotty, obnoxious reply implying it's my fault that Java is not listed on the requirement page for the game and that I should investigate what might be required for installation before buying the game. Normal companies run by normal people use the "Requirements" portion of their web page for this sort of thing and don't expect their customers to be detectives.
Consequently, I won't be playing this game and won't be doing any further business with Matrix/Slitherine.

Java is one of the most widely used computer languages (I use it in my day job), more so than C++. Javascript is the most popular but I won't write a game in that

Sorry to hear about that, but I'd suggest trying to install the game WITHOUT installing java. It should run fine.

[Tom_]

[/quote]
I'd suggest trying to install the game WITHOUT installing java. It should run fine.
[/quote]

Apologies but I'm not particularly savvy with PCs ect - So if we don't need Java to run the game, why is it installed?

[FlinnBella]

I like this style of game I just wish there was one for a modern era, like late cold war or even 2000's

[JPJ]

Recently on reddit:

Thoughts on WEGO WW2 Stalingrad?
https://www.reddit.com/r/computerwargam ... alin_grad/

[Tom_]

[/quote]
If I understand you, in Flashpoint Campaigns, you pick a unit then have to set the move type, then move it? Won't that also break up the flow? If one is moving many units, having that extra step might become too much?
[/quote]

So for me personally it doesn't break the flow, it actually defines it.
i.e. in FPoint you select a unit and decide where to move it, it then requires you to determine what the unit should do on its arrival.(hold, screen, ect)
For the player it takes a cognitive process away from them as it force chains the instructions. Which (for me) makes it easier. I don't see flow as speed - I see it as efficiency/accuracy, which ironically results in faster play and less 'oops' moments or fighting against the UI.

The more I play this game the more I see it as a blend between FPoint and Decisive campaigns - albeit with a flawed UI. This should be the wargamers dream. I genuinely believe you have the genesis of something excellent here.

Are you able to give an indication on what your intentions are for this game - apart from other scenarios?

[Tom_]

Playing more and have some thoughts;
Change 'Allies' to Soviets.

During the opening 'pop up display' when starting a battle/scenario (with Background and Army information) an Enemy force estimate would be useful. i.e. what you are likely to be up against.

When you are in the planning phase unknown units are rightly listed as '?' - From what I have seen the moment you click 'execute' all enemy force that will be discovered, become discovered. i.e. the predetermined outcome before units move is revealed. No a big issue but takes away from some of the excitement during a turn. e.g have you sent your Panzers to destroy an unknown unit only to find its an AT unit.. that sense of jeopardy is robbed immediately from you when all units are revealed.

Not seeing any changes to units/map when i click 'show supply levels'. Could be me looking in the wrong place. But the other buttons bring good and clear detail to what they are trying to tell the player.

When looking at battle summaries - sometimes the anti-air attacks info expands and conceals the aircraft data. Mainly when they are big attacks.

Open HQ Hierarchy is really good. - could probably do with a zoom out feature to help larger ORBATS.

Video mode - doesn't focus the camera on any action - so I can hear battles occurring but when on a larger map I'm frantically trying to look for them. Whilst I can replay the turn or look at the battle summaries it would just make life easier. Further to that it would be handy if the movement arrows were allowed to be displayed, or at least some more visual indicators. I had an instance where I thought my units were going to conduct an excellent encirclement. I was pretty excited. However, at the start of the next turn the encirclement hadn't worked. The AI had reacted (which is great!). The thing is I don't actually know how they reacted or what went wrong. I just look at the screen and know that my units didn't end up where I wanted them and the enemy units are elsewhere.

Having a turn summary that visually articulates what did (or did not) happen, and why, would help. The replay shows individual snapshots but the result is not woven together.

[governato]

Having a turn summary that visually articulates what did (or did not) happen, and why, would help. The replay shows individual snapshots but the result is not woven together.

+1

[Saint Ruth]

Apologies but I'm not particularly savvy with PCs ect - So if we don't need Java to run the game, why is it installed?

Hi, because the option to install java should be removed as the game has java in it.
What that means is that the game comes with Java BUT java is NOT installed on your machine. The game is the only thing that can use the java.

E.g.
On a machine with java, if you open a CMD window/prompt and write "java -version", you will see the currently installed java version.
If you do NOT have Java installed, and then you install the game, if you write "java -version", it will show an error as java is not installed.
So no other program can use that java.

[Saint Ruth]

So for me personally it doesn't break the flow, it actually defines it.
i.e. in FPoint you select a unit and decide where to move it, it then requires you to determine what the unit should do on its arrival.(hold, screen, ect)
For the player it takes a cognitive process away from them as it force chains the instructions. Which (for me) makes it easier. I don't see flow as speed - I see it as efficiency/accuracy, which ironically results in faster play and less 'oops' moments or fighting against the UI.

The more I play this game the more I see it as a blend between FPoint and Decisive campaigns - albeit with a flawed UI. This should be the wargamers dream. I genuinely believe you have the genesis of something excellent here.

Are you able to give an indication on what your intentions are for this game - apart from other scenarios?

I downloaded both those games and gave them a whirl, and in both, you select a unit, then select the move type (or action) and then move it. To be honest, I would have thought just dragging a unit would be easier?
I could of course add a "select move type" button in the right click unit screen which would then determine that units move type.

I am also looking at perhaps have a option to change the way units move. I.e. to allow left mouse click would select a unit and then clicking a hex would move it to the hex...like most other games... In hindsight, I should not have tried to reinvent the wheel .

Intentions at the moment is to add new rules, weather, para drops etc... the list is long! I am of course constantly trying to improve the UI though...!

[Saint Ruth]

Recently on reddit:

Thoughts on WEGO WW2 Stalingrad?
https://www.reddit.com/r/computerwargam ... alin_grad/

Oh, cheers for that. I hadn't seen it.

[Saint Ruth]

Playing more and have some thoughts;
Change 'Allies' to Soviets.

During the opening 'pop up display' when starting a battle/scenario (with Background and Army information) an Enemy force estimate would be useful. i.e. what you are likely to be up against.

When you are in the planning phase unknown units are rightly listed as '?' - From what I have seen the moment you click 'execute' all enemy force that will be discovered, become discovered. i.e. the predetermined outcome before units move is revealed. No a big issue but takes away from some of the excitement during a turn. e.g have you sent your Panzers to destroy an unknown unit only to find its an AT unit.. that sense of jeopardy is robbed immediately from you when all units are revealed.

Yep, that's an issue all right.

Not seeing any changes to units/map when i click 'show supply levels'. Could be me looking in the wrong place. But the other buttons bring good and clear detail to what they are trying to tell the player.

That'll show units in Combat+ or Move+ supply, but if no units are in those supply types, it'll show nothing...which I know looks like it didn't work!

When looking at battle summaries - sometimes the anti-air attacks info expands and conceals the aircraft data. Mainly when they are big attacks.

Open HQ Hierarchy is really good. - could probably do with a zoom out feature to help larger ORBATS.

Can have a look. Cheers,

Video mode - doesn't focus the camera on any action - so I can hear battles occurring but when on a larger map I'm frantically trying to look for them. Whilst I can replay the turn or look at the battle summaries it would just make life easier. Further to that it would be handy if the movement arrows were allowed to be displayed, or at least some more visual indicators. I had an instance where I thought my units were going to conduct an excellent encirclement. I was pretty excited. However, at the start of the next turn the encirclement hadn't worked. The AI had reacted (which is great!). The thing is I don't actually know how they reacted or what went wrong. I just look at the screen and know that my units didn't end up where I wanted them and the enemy units are elsewhere.

In the latest patch, there's a little checkbox to the right of the film arrows. If you select/unselect it, it'll center the map on battles when you step through the film. Otherwise it won't. I put that in last patch as it was annoying that the film kept jumping around the map.

Ah, interesting idea. Show the movement arrows during the film. Oh, I like that. Will have a look.

Having a turn summary that visually articulates what did (or did not) happen, and why, would help. The replay shows individual snapshots but the result is not woven together.

Not sure what you mean here. There's a turn summary showing casualties etc for the entire turn (button top left). But you mean...?

Many thanks for the feedback!
I can only improve the game if I know how it can be improved!
Thanks,
Brian

[MemoryLeak]

Because it is like every other game Matrix gets its hands on, unnecessarily too complicated. And I own all of them and hate them. maybe 1 person in 100,000 can figure them out, .let alone know all the rules. War in the East 2 is a great example. Last time I looked 520 page manual. Are you kidding me? And you want me to believe players know and understand 520 pages of technical rules and calculations? HA. The sad thing is a lot of that stuff could have been stripped out or made optional.

And I suppose they will do the same thing to Rule the Waves 3 and make an advanced degree in Military history and tactics a requirement to understanding the rules.

[kevinkins]

Sounds like war: complicated, hard to master, and forget any rule book given - just throw it out. And when the AP round fails to penetrate the side of the enemy's tank your gunner will shout "damn optional rules".