CS-Continuous Supply question

[Nomad]

I think it works as intended, but you have to carefully read the manual:

15.5 AUTOMATIC CONVOYS
By using the Automatic Convoys system, players can select certain ship types (AK’s, TK’s, and
certain escort supply ships) to be placed into a computer controlled system that will attempt
to keep bases supplied with needed supplies and fuel, and for the Japanese, will attempt to
pick up resources and oil to return them to Japan for production. Ships are put into this system
by the player at Osaka, San Francisco, or Karachi, and bases must be specifically set to be
included in the system to receive supplies/fuel or have resources picked up (do this by pressing
on the Auto Convoy System button at the top of the main game screen; bases may also be
added into the Auto Convoy system from the Base orders screen).

The important word is OR in the highlighted portion. It does not say it will deliver supplies and return resources with the same TF. It says it will send a TF to deliver supplies or fuel or it will send a TF to pick up resources.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Yes it says there but it is not working.

It is sending TF's to collect resource without supply and sending TF's with supply.

With CS convoys you have to start them and home-port them in the port where they will load their main cargo, and then after that you can specify a return cargo from the destination port. I don't use autoconvoy, but I would expect the same - no going out to "pick up" the main cargo. You cannot introduce a third port into the CS route except as a refueling waypoint - i.e. you can't deliver your original cargo to the destination port and then divert to another port for the return cargo. I expect the same for autoconvoy.

[Dili]

Thanks i have found that in Continuous Supply you can do that, the button is available to be clicked.

[Alfred]

TFs created under the Automatic Convoy system have always, subject to certain conditions, been capable of returning back to San Francisco, Colombo or Osaka, with raw materials.  This state of affairs has always been obvious from:

(a) s.15.5 of the manual
(b) posts dated 19 July 2009 and 8 August 2010 from Don Bowen
(c) post dated 2 January 2011 from michaelm75au
(d) patch #6, code change fix #71
(e) January 2011 explanation from michaem75au in various posts regarding the circumstances which led to (d) above
(f) players posting their Operations Reports which list specific TFs loading resources

Up to a point, I can understand players who aren't interested in using the Auto Convoy system not doing any of the above homework but where is the excuse for those actually interested in the system to not do their research.  There is no compelling reason why I should do their work, especially when zero facts have been provided to support the assertion that raw materials are not carried on the return trip.


For the benefit of those who have tried to be helpful in this thread, I will point out the following pertinent conditions.

1.  The Auto Convoy system is entirely operated by the computer.  The only human input is in selecting the participating bases and providing the ships.

2.  Based on demand, processed goods (supplies/fuel) are carried on the outward trip to participating bases.  For the return trip from that base, the same TF may load raw materials (resources/oil) under certain circumstances.

3.  Only those raw materials surplus to local requirements are potentially available to be loaded for the return trip.  Before you ask, no I won't state how the surplus is determined.  The devs have had many opportunities to disclose that threshold if they were inclined to do so.

4.  Loading of any return cargo is dependent on the TF being actually docked.  As the system is operated by the computer the standard rules for auto docking apply, the player cannot manually force docking.

5.  Originally whether a return cargo was taken on board was dependent solely on checks at that base.  The patch #6 change introduced a further check to take into account the raw material stocks held at the originating base (that is San Francisco, Colombo or Osaka) as appropriate.  If a bug has been introduced, you can thank the Allied players who convinced michaelm75au that San Francisco did not need the delivery of raw materials.

6.  Irrespective of whether a base has surplus raw materials, or the TF can dock at the port, not all bases qualify to provide a return cargo.  Qualification is dependent on regional location.    Again, before you ask, no I won't state how the qualification is determined.  The devs have had many opportunities to disclose the regional boundaries if they were inclined to do so.

7.  Finally there is the obvious point that the returning TF must contain ships possessing appropriate cargo holds which can carry the surplus raw materials.



With zero facts provided, I see absolutely no bug being in play.  Merely the appropriate conditions not being met.

Alfred

Edit: oops, corrected an important typo in point 2 above re what constitutes raw mat4rials.

[RangerJoe]

As I previously stated, you have to be smarter than what you are working with. If you do not do the research as to what can be done and how, then don't complain if it does not work the way that you want it to work.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

TFs created under the Automatic Convoy system have always, subject to certain conditions, been capable of returning back to San Francisco, Colombo or Osaka, with raw materials.  This state of affairs has always been obvious from:

(a) s.15.5 of the manual
(b) posts dated 19 July 2009 and 8 August 2010 from Don Bowen
(c) post dated 2 January 2011 from michaelm75au
(d) patch #6, code change fix #71
(e) January 2011 explanation from michaem75au in various posts regarding the circumstances which led to (d) above
(f) players posting their Operations Reports which list specific TFs loading resources

Up to a point, I can understand players who aren't interested in using the Auto Convoy system not doing any of the above homework but where is the excuse for those actually interested in the system to not do their research.  There is no compelling reason why I should do their work, especially when zero facts have been provided to support the assertion that raw materials are not carried on the return trip.


For the benefit of those who have tried to be helpful in this thread, I will point out the following pertinent conditions.

1.  The Auto Convoy system is entirely operated by the computer.  The only human input is in selecting the participating bases and providing the ships.

2.  Based on demand, processed goods (supplies/fuel) are carried on the outward trip to participating bases.  For the return trip from that base, the same TF may load raw materials (resources/fuel) under certain circumstances.

3.  Only those raw materials surplus to local requirements are potentially available to be loaded for the return trip.  Before you ask, no I won't state how the surplus is determined.  The devs have had many opportunities to disclose that threshold if they were inclined to do so.

4.  Loading of any return cargo is dependent on the TF being actually docked.  As the system is operated by the computer the standard rules for auto docking apply, the player cannot manually force docking.

5.  Originally whether a return cargo was taken on board was dependent solely on checks at that base.  The patch #6 change introduced a further check to take into account the raw material stocks held at the originating base (that is San Francisco, Colombo or Osaka) as appropriate.  If a bug has been introduced, you can thank the Allied players who convinced michaelm75au that San Francisco did not need the delivery of raw materials.

6.  Irrespective of whether a base has surplus raw materials, or the TF can dock at the port, not all bases qualify to provide a return cargo.  Qualification is dependent on regional location.    Again, before you ask, no I won't state how the qualification is determined.  The devs have had many opportunities to disclose the regional boundaries if they were inclined to do so.

7.  Finally there is the obvious point that the returning TF must contain ships possessing appropriate cargo holds which can carry the surplus raw materials.



With zero facts provided, I see absolutely no bug being in play.  Merely the appropriate conditions not being met.

Alfred

Thor has spoken! The game is working as designed.

[Lowpe]

I don't normally put bases in that have resources or oil to be brought back to Osaka, but will do so to see what happens...

I tend to set up the Japanese Islands around Osaka and then I pretty much simply forget about it, only checking every now and then to make sure there are escorts with the convoys once some Allied subs show up in the area.

I also tend to use low vp ships like xakls trading the added fuel cost for less clicks but also to make use of the smaller ports better.

Ok, not the best example but the convoy to Naha is picking up resources. It is not taking supplies there, since there is 50K supplies already there and just two JNAF air base units there, plus a small construction engineer unit and the small cd unit at Naga plus 20 or so planes.

Interesting to note that the tanker convoy is small enough to dock at a level 1 port, but isn't docked at Koshiki. 1,550 tons to dock at a port level 1 (6,000 ton capacity).

[jdsrae]

I’ve noticed that even if they are small enough, TFs don’t auto dock at size 1 or 2 ports.
I think they do at size 3+ so I’ve expanded a few ports to size 3 to avoid having to keep checkin those TFs.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

I’ve noticed that even if they are small enough, TFs don’t auto dock at size 1 or 2 ports.
I think they do at size 3+ so I’ve expanded a few ports to size 3 to avoid having to keep checkin those TFs.

I never paid that much attention to this before. The system worked for what I wanted it to...but I think I will play around a bit more with it.

The biggest problem with auto convoy for Japan I think is the wasted fuel going to Osaka I think, making it less than ideal for resource convoys, but an ok trade off for supply convoys, imo.

[Dili]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

As I previously stated, you have to be smarter than what you are working with. If you do not do the research as to what can be done and how, then don't complain if it does not work the way that you want it to work.

Why you doing statements about what you don't know about?

1 -The auto convoy is sending on propose convoys to bring resources, it goes to that port - which btw have no industry - and takes them to Osaka

2- the auto convoy is also sending TF's to that port with supply. They don't bring resources back.

[Dili]

ORIGINAL: Alfred



6.  Irrespective of whether a base has surplus raw materials, or the TF can dock at the port, not all bases qualify to provide a return cargo.  Qualification is dependent on regional location.    Again, before you ask, no I won't state how the qualification is determined.  The devs have had many opportunities to disclose the regional boundaries if they were inclined to do so.

Since the auto convoy is sending on propose TF's to bring resources back what justifies the discrimination between return cargo and on propose TF's to bring it back?

[Alfred]

The Auto Convoy system is not built to send out an empty TF.  It is not a resource gathering shortcut.
 
Alfred

[Dili]

But it is what is a doing. Besides sending another convoy supplies and another convoy of fuel.

[Alfred]

Put up the evidence that empty Auto Convoys are leaving Osaka, or San Francisco, or Colombo, and then returning with resources from the outlying bases.
 
Alfred

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Put up the evidence that empty Auto Convoys are leaving Osaka, or San Francisco, or Colombo, and then returning with resources from the outlying bases.

Alfred

He doesn't need to, already done.

See my post this thread, post #27, Task Force 474 as pictured. Heads out empty to pick up resources.

[Alfred]

Lets see TF 474 actually loaded with resources on return trip.
 
Afred

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Lets see TF 474 actually loaded with resources on return trip.

Afred

Sorry, the game has progressed past that point.[:(] I do recall them bringing back resources though. Actually think it would be a shame if that convoy did carry supplies out since the base already has lots of supply (c40K) for very few (and small) units.

But I will monitor my auto convoys and show you the AI is discerning and does ship out empty convoys to pickup resources if supplies aren't needed at that particular base. Just take a bit of time.

Here are my current auto convoys, where I added several bases that do generate resources to see what happens.

One of the pitfalls of the auto convoy system is that the task force doesn't follow a coastal route, which was subsequently added after the game release. The convoy at Formosa is comprised of two 14 knot ships.

Overall I am pleased with the auto convoy system for certain tasks.




I also see I ran out of PB escort ships, and TF 188 is out without escort. Oops. I fixed that, but it seems some task forces have two escorts for one cargo ship...none have three escorts for one cargo ship though.

[Lowpe]

I added a few more ships to the auto convoy routine, and the AI immediately created task force 351 (and others) but 351 left Osaka empty and is heading for Naha for resources.....

The ai loves to groups task force composition to speed plus the tanker/cargo combination task force is interesting too.

[Lowpe]

A few days later task force 351 arrives, docks, and starts to load resources.

[Dili]

Thanks Lowpe