General Questions.

[Deftninja666]

Hi, I've searched the forum quite a bit for info, and here are some questions I could not find answers to. I played SP way back when it first came out, and just recently got back into it at version 8, anyways, any advice is appreciated here... thanks.

I read Capt. Pixels info on setting range to 0 for infantry sneaking around... I still am confused as to how this works. I thought range, was basically, the range at which a unit will respond with fire, against an enemy movement or would return fire. With version 8 or higher, you are given the option of using op fire or not... so I've never set my range to anything less than max. So... I tried setting range to 0 anyways, drove up to a town with a mech. recon platoon, and let my snipers and recon teams advance into the first buildings with range set to zero, only advancing one hex at a time. Both snipers and teams were immediatly spotted and destroyed by Russian units one hex away. Is this "range 0 sneak up" tactic only useful if the enmy is farther than one hex away? I'm really confused about this, because whenever I scout on any advance mission, my recon squads just tend to die, along with snipers and scout cars... heh. What am I doing wrong here?


I do not play with command and control on... Should I still keep infantry platoons near each other? armor, and other units as well? How cohesive should I keep my force?
Also, without comand and control on... does the advance or defend stance matter??? I've been putting units on defend stance, and they can move their full move still (or at least a good portion of their move)... do they still get the 33% chance higher op fire, and whatever other benefits?


Infantry that have rifles, MG's and SMG's... for example FJ GE infantry... should I just leave all their weapons on? What are the benefits of each weapon as well? I was wondering if I should not use the K98's at close range, and just use the MG and SMG's. Another thing... the K98's get as many shots as the squad LMG... can I assume that's because of the combined fire of all the squad firing their K98's and the fact there is only ONE LMG firing??? bascially... i'm just not sure on the finer points of each weapon in a small arms squad like that.


Finally, how does one get the advantage in a one on one infantry battle at 1 hex range. For example, a squad of US troops vs a squad of GE Riflemen. A one hex away, how can i possibly get away with the least casualties, or is there really just no secret to this, other than attack first, and aggresivly... and if outnumbered, should I still attack, say a 4 man recon team vs full US squad of infantry... or should i withdraw?

thanks for help on any of the above questions.

[Resisti]

Hi.
My replies in capital letters, below.


I read Capt. Pixels info on setting range to 0 for infantry sneaking around... I still am confused as to how this works. I thought range, was basically, the range at which a unit will respond with fire, against an enemy movement or would return fire. With version 8 or higher, you are given the option of using op fire or not... so I've never set my range to anything less than max. So... I tried setting range to 0 anyways, drove up to a town with a mech. recon platoon, and let my snipers and recon teams advance into the first buildings with range set to zero, only advancing one hex at a time. Both snipers and teams were immediatly spotted and destroyed by Russian units one hex away. Is this "range 0 sneak up" tactic only useful if the enmy is farther than one hex away? I'm really confused about this, because whenever I scout on any advance mission, my recon squads just tend to die, along with snipers and scout cars... heh. What am I doing wrong here?
I THINK YOU’RE DOING NOTHING WRONG HERE: SCOUTS UNITS ARE CANNON FODDER, ESPECIALLY WHEN IN AN ADVANCE MISSION.
CAPTAIN PIXELS’ STATEMENT WAS MAINLY REFERRED TO PBEM(PLAY BY E-MAIL) BATTLES, I THINK; IN SUCH A CASE YOU’RE NOT ENTITLED TO CHOOSE IF OP-FIRE OR NOT, BUT YOUR UNITS FIRE AT ANYTHING WITHIN THEIR SET FIRE MAX RANGE.

I do not play with command and control on... Should I still keep infantry platoons near each other? armor, and other units as well? How cohesive should I keep my force?
BEING COHESIVE IS ALWAYS ADVISABLE, EVEN WITH C&C OFF; REMEMBER THAT THE FORMATION’S LEADER UNIT(x0 UNIT), GIVES YOU AN EXTRA CHANCE TO REDUCE SUPPRESSION OF FORMATION’S UNITS, IF IT IS WITHIN 3 HEXES FROM ANY OF THEM.

Also, without comand and control on... does the advance or defend stance matter???
NO

I've been putting units on defend stance, and they can move their full move still (or at least a good portion of their move)... do they still get the 33% chance higher op fire, and whatever other benefits?
NO

Infantry that have rifles, MG's and SMG's... for example FJ GE infantry... should I just leave all their weapons on? What are the benefits of each weapon as well? I was wondering if I should not use the K98's at close range, and just use the MG and SMG's.
THE CLOSER YOU FIRE AT YOUR TARGET, THE HIGHER ARE THE CHANCES TO GET A KILL/DAMAGE(OBVIOUS, UH? [;)] ) SMGs HAVE A MAX FIRE RANGE SHORTER THAN RIFLES, SO THEY SHOULD BE USED WHEN THE ENEMY IS CLOSER. YOU CAN SELECTIVELY TURN OFF/ON EACH OF THE WEAPONS AN UNIT OWES.

Another thing... the K98's get as many shots as the squad LMG... can I assume that's because of the combined fire of all the squad firing their K98's and the fact there is only ONE LMG firing???
NOT SURE, BUT IT’S A GOOD GUESS [:)]

bascially... i'm just not sure on the finer points of each weapon in a small arms squad like that.

Finally, how does one get the advantage in a one on one infantry battle at 1 hex range. For example, a squad of US troops vs a squad of GE Riflemen. A one hex away, how can i possibly get away with the least casualties, or is there really just no secret to this, other than attack first, and aggresivly... and if outnumbered, should I still attack, say a 4 man recon team vs full US squad of infantry... or should i withdraw?
THIS IS HARD TO REPLY, SINCE EVERYBODY HAS A DIFFERENT TACTIC AND WAY TO PLAY.
COMBAT AT BLANK RANGE IS HEAVILY INFLUENCED BY HOW WELL A UNIT IS EQUIPPED WITH CLOSE RANGE WEAPONS; SO IN YOUR EXAMPLE, IF YOUR RECON TEAM IS ARMED WITH SAY SMGs, HAND GRENADES AND SATCHEL CHARGES, AND YOU CAN GET THE FIRST SHOT, IT COULD WELL BE THAT THE ENEMY INFANTRY SQUAD WILL HAVE A BAD DAY [:D]
thanks for help on any of the above questions.

[bchapman]

ORIGINAL: Deftninja666

Hi, I've searched the forum quite a bit for info, and here are some questions I could not find answers to. I played SP way back when it first came out, and just recently got back into it at version 8, anyways, any advice is appreciated here... thanks.

I read Capt. Pixels info on setting range to 0 for infantry sneaking around... I still am confused as to how this works. I thought range, was basically, the range at which a unit will respond with fire, against an enemy movement or would return fire. With version 8 or higher, you are given the option of using op fire or not... so I've never set my range to anything less than max. So... I tried setting range to 0 anyways, drove up to a town with a mech. recon platoon, and let my snipers and recon teams advance into the first buildings with range set to zero, only advancing one hex at a time. Both snipers and teams were immediatly spotted and destroyed by Russian units one hex away. Is this "range 0 sneak up" tactic only useful if the enmy is farther than one hex away? I'm really confused about this, because whenever I scout on any advance mission, my recon squads just tend to die, along with snipers and scout cars... heh. What am I doing wrong here?

Resisti is correct here. The 0 range is useful in PBEM games mostly. After you advance your units a hex, you set their range to 0, then if during the opponents turn, your troops spot enemy units, they won't fire and give their postion away.
Scouts can move pretty stealthly if they don't move more that a hex at a time. Any vehicle is hard to hide if it moves. Snipers can stay hidden for quite awhile if they don't move, and only shoot 1 or 2 times per turn (set range to 0 after firing).

I do not play with command and control on... Should I still keep infantry platoons near each other? armor, and other units as well? How cohesive should I keep my force?
Also, without comand and control on... does the advance or defend stance matter??? I've been putting units on defend stance, and they can move their full move still (or at least a good portion of their move)... do they still get the 33% chance higher op fire, and whatever other benefits?

If you aren't playing with C&C on, then there is no advantage to keeping forces together except for fire support.
Defend mode will help the unit to dig-in or become dug-in quicker I think. Not sure about the op-fire thing as I only play PBEM.

Infantry that have rifles, MG's and SMG's... for example FJ GE infantry... should I just leave all their weapons on? What are the benefits of each weapon as well? I was wondering if I should not use the K98's at close range, and just use the MG and SMG's. Another thing... the K98's get as many shots as the squad LMG... can I assume that's because of the combined fire of all the squad firing their K98's and the fact there is only ONE LMG firing??? bascially... i'm just not sure on the finer points of each weapon in a small arms squad like that.

Infantry weapons should only be turned off if they are in limited supply. Things such as bazookas, panzerfausts, satchel charges, demolition charges, flame throwers, etc. These are specialty weapons, and you might want to save them for some special purpose. For example, if you have an engineer sqd assaulting a tank, you might want to turn off all the weapons except the satchel charge. If you have a MG hidden and want to fire it without being spotted, turn off its secondary weapon.

Finally, how does one get the advantage in a one on one infantry battle at 1 hex range. For example, a squad of US troops vs a squad of GE Riflemen. A one hex away, how can i possibly get away with the least casualties, or is there really just no secret to this, other than attack first, and aggresivly... and if outnumbered, should I still attack, say a 4 man recon team vs full US squad of infantry... or should i withdraw?

Not any quick and easy answers to this one. Alot depends on who vs who. In your example, the unit that shoots first probably has the advantage. If one unit is stationary and the other unit has moved a couple of hexes (a hundred yards), the the stationary unit has the advantage of accuracy probably. Not generally a good idea to attack a full unsuppressed Inf sqd with a scout team. [:-]

thanks for help on any of the above questions.

Hope some of this helps, most of it will come easier as you play more and gain experience. Welcome to the club [:D]

[Deftninja666]

Thanks a lot for the help fella's.

But I'd like to make sure of this one more time...
If have some FJ GE Troops (K98, LMG 42, and MP40 SMG's), should I just fire every single weapon at another close infantry group... or turn off the rifles, so that my LMG and SMG's fire first and do more damage before the enemy "hits the ground".
I'm just unsure as how all those different small arms work out when fired at once. I know how to use the more specialized weapons like flamethrowers and satchels an such. From what I've read so far, the answer is fire everything, rifle, LMG, and SMG's.

thanks.

[VikingNo2]

Hi Deftninja666

Welcome aboard, IMHO fire everything. If you know you are going to figting at close quarter buy infantry equipt with SMGs as there primary weapon. Make sure your force selection matches your battlefield I know that seems simple but its where many players stray. just my .02


And as always if your up for a game let me know[:D]

[Voriax]

Hello

And yes, fire everything. One thing though. If you have managed to sneak your infantry unit next to an enemy that has not fired yet, you'd want to use a second unit farther ways as a 'decoy' of sorts. You see, if this enemy unit has been stationary it is quite hard to hit at it. Now if this faraway unit of yours shoots at it first, it may prompt the enemy into returning fire (assuming you play against AI). This means your unit next to the enemy will get 20-30% higher to hit chances. Sometimes even higher.

As for what happens when your unit fires...say you have 10 men and they are armed with rifle, lmg and handgrenade. You fire and first 8 rifles fire, then one lmg fires and then one man throws a handgrenade. If the enemy unit survives the first two the grenade is usually the one that causes one casualty and makes the enemy to flee.

You pondered about number of shots...well, they can be individual shots or small bursts. With bolt action rifles it is pretty much one game shot = one bullet. Maybe two. With lmg/smg/other automatics consider it a short burst. Tank guns and other cannons it is again one shot = one round of ammunition.

Voriax

[Gvaihir]

Welcome Deftninja!

1a)I'd also say - fire everything! 'Cause even if you do not achieve a casualty the suppression will do. Even if the enemy unit op fires the suppression comes to play and wooala ! they don't hit you.... You can attack it again with the same unit or... you will have a chance to move other units closer for the kill...

1b)And as Voriax said - always use decoys or rubber ducks! You will definately dislodge the stationary dug in unit after it op fired(unless they're russian)...

2)As the germans turn off the panzerfausts as they are always short in supply - 3 max! But on the contrary, the us squads have 3-4 HE and 4-6 AP(HEAT) rounds so you're a little safer there.

Gvaihir

[Jim1954]

About the only time I won't fire everything is when I have a unit in close combat with the enemy in the target hex. Then I turn off the grenades and anything else more lethal than a rifle or a mg. Too easy to have a little friendly fire incident the other way, and that's only when I really need to put some hurt on the enemy. Like an infiltrator who got lucky and popped up where my A0 was hunkered down!

[robot]

I am assaulting the finns feb 40 with the russians. And the notion of suppression working to stop a direct hit on op fire is not working too good. Vis is supposed to be about 7hexes. But i am having trouble seeing anything more then 2 hexes. I am getting my rear chewed uoff. I am in the 25 turn so far. I have not taken a single VH yet. Most of my tanks were destroied in the mine field. My infantry is running into the enemys about every 2 hexes. I use mortors cal 50,82,and 120. And yet every time i find the enemy say right in the next hex they op fire and kill some time 3 men at a time. This is with a constant bombardment on them. This has been a blood bath right from the start.

I bought 4 platoons of engineers to get thru the minefield. Which helped my infantry but not my tanks. Even tho i hit the opposing troops wirh my first shot they still op fire and my troops retreat. The next unit then moves up and he is sent packing. I have used 152 and 203 in pre bombardment but this does not dislodge all of the enemy.

This is the third battle with the finns. So far i have 2 draws and i fear this time it will be a loss. I always capture all the victory hexes and destroy at least 4 times the equipment and men. Its just that it is so hard to find them. I am almost always with in 2 hexes before i find them. I always fire all my weapons as soon as i have a chance to fire. But my infantry is getting there heads handed to them from there op fire even tho i hurt them some time on each shot. In other words suppresion doesnt seem to work to well against the finns.

[FNG]

I found the Finns to be really tough and generally difficult to suppress. I had the best results with constant 120mm bombardment on a narrow front backed up by a human-wave assault backed up by tanks. I took fairly heavy numeric losses, but rotated squads out of the line once they were reduced to 4 or 5 men.

Cossacks & recon squads will improve your odds immensely unless you're stuck in the woods vs. Finn ski troops[:(]. Being able to manoeuvre 3-4 squads into a firing position and firing in rotation will also improve your odds somewhat. Apologies if I'm telling you what you already know [;)]

[robot]

Thanks FNG for reply. I bought extra engineers because of the assault. But they never really opened a good lane thru the minefield. I lost a whole Co. of tanks on my left flank. The Co. on my right flank made it thru with 2thds left. My troops are almost all down to 4 or 5 left. A few squads have 6 or 9. I have killed some where near 2500 men so far. But there doesnt seem to be any let up in enemy troops. What gets me is the 1 or 2 men of a squad left, who consistenly take assaults of 2 or 3 of my squads. Who will kill atleast 4 or 5 men of mine before disbursing. My 203 and 152 are out of ammo, I still have a sec of 120 with a few more shots left. Have now captured the southern victory hex and 3 of the center ones but the north ones are to far away. I am now in the 28 turn of a 31 turn battle. The end is very in doubt. Have lost too much in manpower and equipment i think.

[Capt. Pixel]

ORIGINAL: Deftninja666

Thanks a lot for the help fella's.

But I'd like to make sure of this one more time...
If have some FJ GE Troops (K98, LMG 42, and MP40 SMG's), should I just fire every single weapon at another close infantry group... or turn off the rifles, so that my LMG and SMG's fire first and do more damage before the enemy "hits the ground".
I'm just unsure as how all those different small arms work out when fired at once. I know how to use the more specialized weapons like flamethrowers and satchels an such. From what I've read so far, the answer is fire everything, rifle, LMG, and SMG's.

thanks.

I'd say that this is generally the case. Fire everything you've got when you've got the chance.

But.....

That's not always the wisest choice.

If you have limited ammunition for a special weapon (bazooka, satchel charge, HE)
and you're firing at a lesser target (scout, crew, etc),
it's probably better to either turn off the special weapon and fire everything
or fire just one other weapon.

I consider it unwise to waste a satchel charge or one of a limited number of HE rounds on a scout when you've got bigger fish to fry in a few turns. Turn that weapon off and fire with everything else. (don't forget to turn it back On if you want it available for Op Fire [:D]) In PBEM, it can throw off your opponent if he thinks that your tank has no main gun, because he only sees it firing MGs at his scout.
[8D]

[Goblin]

True Capt P. The reverse is true also. Sometimes it is best to hit the enemy with your flamethrower first, or a single rifle hit may retreat him, and you won't get the FT attack.


Goblin

[returnfire]

ORIGINAL: Goblin

True Capt P. The reverse is true also. Sometimes it is best to hit the enemy with your flamethrower first, or a single rifle hit may retreat him, and you won't get the FT attack.


Goblin

Agreed.

Take my case in a USMC vs. Japan battle in a WW2 campaign as an example:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had an engineer squad (Garand M1 Rifle + M1918A2 BAR + Satchel Charge + Hand Grenade) one hex away from two pinned JA Inf A Squads (those with 20 Men in each).

I saved before firing just in case, and this was the result:


Test 1: Leave all four weapons on
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trial 1: 1 casualty after the BAR => the squad retreats before my squad throws the satchel charge => the other JA Inf A Sqd* returns fire => my squad takes 2 casualties from the grenade => now my squad retreats.[:@]
Trial 2: 1 casualty done by the M1 Garand => similar result as trial 1


Test 2: Turn the Rifle and BAR off
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trial 1: Satchel charge causes 2 casualties in one JA Inf Squad, 1 in another, both retreat (I didn't even get a chance to fire the grenade)[X(]
Trial 2: 1 casualty after satchel charge, another from grenade, one squad retreats. No return fire.


Conclusion: Use the HE weapons first (grenades, satchel charges, and flamethrowers) if you're attacking multiple squads at range 1!

[Voriax]

Remember that if you have several enemies in a one hex and you are firing from one hex away, it is possible (and often a good idea) to attack hex. Thus you fire all weapons and have the possibility to cause a lot of damage to every unit in the hex.

Voriax

[robot]

Ok i have tried the attack thing. Hasnt worked for me. What do i have to do to get the over run and atttack to work. I think you have to use the control key and another key. Also the over run is for mech only. The assault is for inf only. Am i right or wrong on this.

[Goblin]

Melee- Infantry in the same hex as another unit = Alt+M
Overrun - AFV in same hex as enemy unit = Alt+O



Goblin

[robot]

Thanks goblin. Didnt know you had to be in same hex tho. Thought you could do from adjacent ones. No wonder it never worked for me. But if you are in same hex wouldnt your morale be too low to assault.

[Goblin]

No. It doesn't happen often with infantry, but armor overrun is something I use all the time. Its great to suppress them with another tank, and move the overrun tank into their hex. There are screams and everything. I usually melee a mortar crew or gun crew, sometimes enemy infantry that have been blasted alot. The problem is that your infantry must move into their hex, and wait until next turn to melee... Your armor can usually overrun if it has alot of shot/moves left.

Goblin

[Belisarius]

...which brings Bernies (was it, right?) wonderful "elephant charge sound" to mind.

rumblerumblerumble*elephant sound* *aiie* *aaaahg* rumblerumblerumble [:D]