Bouncing bombs of Jap cv's....WTF?

[Mr.Frag]

Just remember HMS Hood when you think of dice [;)]

[Nikademus]

bah....forget that...remember HIJMS Hyuga....struck by only two 18in Stringbag torps in my current game and crippled.....ship later sinks in harbor.

now THATS a bad dice roll. [:@]

[tabpub]

Perhaps it WAS over 50 and during repair phase it was lowered.
If I remember my turn sequence correctly, that is....don't remember as clearly as I used too...[>:]

[Nikademus]

The Allied damage control bonus can work wonders with modest FLT levels in a single turn. If the FLT was 15% say for example, the repair phase might have reduced it to 5%

[Graycompany]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

Personaly,i think only 40 float damage on Enterprise with torpedoes is also a little light.

Mike

In the coral sea battle the lexington took 3 torpedoes all on the same side, and she, after the fires were out was still able to make 25 knots and recover planes. She was planning on launching another strike when fumes from gas from damage from a bomb hit earlier that day were ignited by a generator ripping her guts out an starting more fires. still she didnt sink untill she was torpedoed from US dd later that night.

[Nikademus]

2 torps [;)]

[PzB74]

In my pbem game I sank the Hyuga with a single torp from a Dutch sub outside of Palembang. BOOOM! [:D]
THAT's a bad dice rolle!

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

bah....forget that...remember HIJMS Hyuga....struck by only two 18in Stringbag torps in my current game and crippled.....ship later sinks in harbor.

now THATS a bad dice roll. [:@]

[Nikademus]

the dreaded Mag explosion no doubt. Mine was more painful in that I got her to a big harbor in time but she sank anyway over a four day period. Damn lazy engineers!

[Iridium]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

the dreaded Mag explosion no doubt. Mine was more painful in that I got her to a big harbor in time but she sank anyway over a four day period. Damn lazy engineers!

Yeah, this tends to bother me. If you had 4 days to dry dock a ship that was heavily damaged, wouldn't you?...[:'(] Oh well, guess this is something to think of for another game...[:D]

[mogami]

Hi, I've always been pretty good at getting ships that didn't sink outright back to a port. However I have terrible luck once they get "safe" Hiryu in my last battle returned to a size 3 port with the fires out and 76 flooding (or was it 79?) anyway she sank in port 3 days later.
I also have terrible luck in that if a port is repairing a ship the enemy always hits that ship if they port attack. I had 30 ships in port (Kendari) and Allied port attack missed all of them except for the CV that had managed to reduce flooding from low 80's to 59
She sank.

[bradfordkay]

"bah....forget that...remember HIJMS Hyuga....struck by only two 18in Stringbag torps in my current game and crippled.....ship later sinks in harbor."

In my game No 100 Sqd RAAF just put 4 torpedoes into Hyuga at Salamaua, and 2 into Ise that afternoon. I hope to have the same luck your opponent had...

Interestingly, No 100 Sqd RAAF is the only Beaufort V-IX squadron in my game that is using torpedoes so far (not really complaining, since I feel that makes up for it being too easy to get torpedoes to the front line airfields).

[spence]

According to the account of the Midway attacks on CV-6.org (or some such) all of VS-6 was carrying 500 lb bombs on that fateful June morning. Only VB-6 had 1000 lbers (and perhaps only some of them). The Enterprise SBDs hit Akagi with 2 bombs (+ a near miss) and Kaga with 4. Although one squadron was supposed to attack each sections of each squadron attacked each. Therefore there is a very slight chance that all the hits were by 1000 lbers, but probably some of those hits were by 500 lbers. I've not had an occasion in WiTP where bombers hit either Akagi or Kaga with anything but those two certainly seemed incredibly durable in UV (over the course of 3 consecutive days I once had 30 x 1000 lb bomb hits claimed on Kaga near New Caledonia and she still almost made it back to Lunga (torpedoed and sunk by a sub at the last minute). Akagi has demonstrated similar if not quite so spectacular resilience. Rating the early IJN CVs durability based on their armored main deck (underneath the hangar deck) seems to overstate their ability to survive damage a bit much. Shokaku survived 4 x 1000 lbers IRL (Coral Sea). But the damage sustained apparently had the Captain sitting on the edge of his chair for the entire trip back to Truk. Though I wouldn't think a 500 lber would endanger her survivability that much the explosion would sure mess up both her flight deck and the folks, planes and shops on the hangar deck.

[Nikademus]

Shokaku at Santa Cruz is a better example still. Hit by a similar # of 1000lb HE bombs, her flight and hanger decks were badly damaged but her hull and propulsion systems were unaffected. She could steam at full speed but could not operate aircraft. Regrettably, SYS damage always impacts speed along with everything else so such situations cannot be represented when devices penetrate the flight deck HL. Seperating proplusion damage from a general SYS rating would be one thing i'd have liked to have seen.

[barbarrossa]

ORIGINAL: spence

According to the account of the Midway attacks on CV-6.org (or some such) all of VS-6 was carrying 500 lb bombs on that fateful June morning. Only VB-6 had 1000 lbers (and perhaps only some of them). The Enterprise SBDs hit Akagi with 2 bombs (+ a near miss) and Kaga with 4. Although one squadron was supposed to attack each sections of each squadron attacked each. Therefore there is a very slight chance that all the hits were by 1000 lbers, but probably some of those hits were by 500 lbers. I've not had an occasion in WiTP where bombers hit either Akagi or Kaga with anything but those two certainly seemed incredibly durable in UV (over the course of 3 consecutive days I once had 30 x 1000 lb bomb hits claimed on Kaga near New Caledonia and she still almost made it back to Lunga (torpedoed and sunk by a sub at the last minute). Akagi has demonstrated similar if not quite so spectacular resilience. Rating the early IJN CVs durability based on their armored main deck (underneath the hangar deck) seems to overstate their ability to survive damage a bit much. Shokaku survived 4 x 1000 lbers IRL (Coral Sea). But the damage sustained apparently had the Captain sitting on the edge of his chair for the entire trip back to Truk. Though I wouldn't think a 500 lber would endanger her survivability that much the explosion would sure mess up both her flight deck and the folks, planes and shops on the hangar deck.

The one thing to remember about Midway was that the Japanese carriers were in the middle of refueling and rearming their a/c. With all that stuff on the flight deck it didn't take too much to send them up like torches.

[bradfordkay]

From what I have read (Fuchida's book being the most recent), the ordnance was not on the flight deck but rather stacked on the hanger deck. Because they were in such a hurry to get the strike off, the service crews had just stacked the removed ordnance off to the side of the hanger rather than taking it back to the magazines before bringing up the new stuff. Thus, the bombs did have to penetrate the flight deck to cause all that damage.

[tsimmonds]

Penetration of unarmored flight decks was a given with those ships, indeed with practically every CV of that era. With the exception of British CVs, armored decks were carried at the level of the hangar floor, or (as in the various BB/BC conversions) even lower. Flight decks in these ships consisted of wooden planks atop relatively thin (1/4" or so) steel plates. While decks of this type of construction offered no protection, they were also relatively easy to repair.

[barbarrossa]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

From what I have read (Fuchida's book being the most recent), the ordnance was not on the flight deck but rather stacked on the hanger deck. Because they were in such a hurry to get the strike off, the service crews had just stacked the removed ordnance off to the side of the hanger rather than taking it back to the magazines before bringing up the new stuff. Thus, the bombs did have to penetrate the flight deck to cause all that damage.

I'm not saying there was no penetration of the flight deck by the 500 lb. hits --- there's no arguement there so I'm not sure why you assume I'm saying that. My point was simply that the deckload of fully armed and refueled a/c sitting ready to launch from the flight deck and poorly stored ordinance (wherever that might have been) contributed to the demise of the Japanese carriers. And that's been in everything I've ever read about Midway.

[bradfordkay]

Sorry, man, but your post had mentioned the ordnance sitting on the flight deck, and the thread had been talking about how the bombs were not penetrating that flight deck so I just wanted to point out that the damage at Midway did occur because of bombs penetrating the flight deck. My post wasn't necessarily an attack on your scholarship, but rather a desire to be sure that everyone understood the situation. Peace?

[Freedom205]

First chance I have had to check out the forums in awhile. PzB is right, he should have inflicted far more damage than he did. (Hiryu is lost, and Zuk is out of the Battle but Shok has only 10 sys damage and the CVLs are unscathed) It is all chance, and I lucked out. I didnt luck out with my 9 Mavis and 9 Emily search planes on 100% search and 40 or so Betties on 30% search BETWEEN my TF and his not spotting him the turn before. I didnt luck out when a lone Catalina on night attack torps the Soryu and puts her out of commission a few turns before. I didnt luck out when my intact attack wing from 3 CVs and 3 CVLs only managed two small strikes. (with Torp pilots doing the worst I have ever seen- all 80+ pilots only 3 torp hits) But I am not complaining, all in all it was a very well timed and sneaky strike, and Hiryu is gone, Carrier Div 1 + Junyo are enroute to stabalize the situation though.