PureSim Has Been Acquired

[Gary Gorski]

ORIGINAL: HotCornerDave

KG, for a minute let's forget everything that has been posted in the last day or two, here and on the Wolverine Studios forum. And let's say Shaun had never gone freeware and had instead released all of the fixes and additional features up to v1.86 as PureSim 2009 and posted it for sale at $35. Are you saying that you wouldn't pay for it? I will find it hard to believe if you say no, you wouldn't.

That said, I'm not saying that you, or any of us who have have worked the freeware beta releases, should pay for PureSim 2. There probably won't be enough differences between v1.86 and the new version to make it worth the money. But, moving forward, I hope you reconsider, as it would be nice to see you over on the new forum. Nearly every game charges for new releases. This game is no different now. And I'm guessing Shaun needs to make money like the rest of us. He has put in a lot of hours of his free time to give us a good stable game at v1.86. And he's not taking that away from us. We still get to keep our free game. And I would bet that he hasn't received more than $100 in donations for his time. I'm all for him making some money with Wolverine Studios. If it helps, think of it this way - we get v1.86 for free, while somebody else is going to pay $35 for v1.86 with some (assuming) minor updates.

[&o]

Thank you - you said what I've been saying all along. If its not worth it to you don't purchase it and wait for the next version you do feel is worth the purchase. I've even said that we constantly do sales and discounts and coupons and stuff like that - if its not worth it to you even with a discount of some kind then I still tell you not to purchase it - no matter what in the end you still have the game(s) you paid for from Matrix or before and you still have basically a brand new game for free (1.86).

We're not asking for one cent from anyone who does not feel that they are going to get their money's worth out of playing PureSim 2 as opposed to v1.86 whether that amount is 34.95 or something lower because of a discount or a coupon at some point. I'm sorry that because of Wolverine Studios you don't get any more free upgrades (other than ones released from the developer after a new release of the game in a patch or something) and that because of us you won't get a "non-beta" version of 1.87 since those features are going to be some of the updates made in PureSim 2. We're a business and PureSim is a commercial product again.

I'm not saying anything I haven't said already and I'm being 100% honest about the situation. For those of you who feel I'm dancing around some kind of issue I don't know what more I can say. I know some of you will continue to dislike what I am saying because I am not saying what you want to hear. I've allowed 1.86 to stay free and I've said there will at the least be a coupon in the future that you can use to get a discount on PureSim 2 because we do that kind of thing frequently. Other than that I don't know how much more I can say other than no matter whether you purchase the game or not you are still welcomed to come to our forums and be part of the PureSim community that will form there.

[HotCornerDave]

I had posted, and have since deleted, a couple of Army Soft messages (although, I see one of them survived as quoted text in the message above from Gary). Now I'm going to call the baby ugly. And if you think I'm an ass for doing so, well, so be it.

If you donated to Shaun during the freeware period, you will get a free license for PureSim 2. Good for you. I hope this courtesy is also being extended to the small handful of people who contributed mods that are now part of the game.

If you did not donate to Shaun, but you intended to and just didn't get around to it or didn't have the means to do so, then consider the cost of the new game to be your donation to Shaun. If for some reason you still can't, don't, or won't buy the new game, then be happy with the fact that you have release (not beta) v1.86 for free.

If you did not donate to Shaun, and you did not intend to, then you should not be complaining. Go buy the new game when it is available. And if you don't want to buy the new game just because you don't want to buy the new game, then buy it anyway, consider it your donation to Shaun, and continue to play release v1.86 for free. Or don't buy the new game at all, and continue to play release v1.86 for free, forever.

It doesn't get much simpler than that...

[Gary Gorski]

ORIGINAL: HotCornerDave

I had posted, and have since deleted, a couple of Army Soft messages (although, I see one of them survived as quoted text in the message above from Gary). Now I'm going to call the baby ugly. And if you think I'm an ass for doing so, well, so be it.

If you donated to Shaun during the freeware period, you will get a free license for PureSim 2. Good for you. I hope this courtesy is also being extended to the small handful of people who contributed mods that are now part of the game.

If you did not donate to Shaun, but you intended to and just didn't get around to it or didn't have the means to do so, then consider the cost of the new game to be your donation to Shaun. If for some reason you still can't, don't, or won't buy the new game, then be happy with the fact that you have release (not beta) v1.86 for free.

If you did not donate to Shaun, and you did not intend to, then shame on you. Go buy the new game when it is available. And if you don't want to buy the new game just because you don't want to buy the new game, then buy it anyway, consider it your donation to Shaun, and continue to play release v1.86 for free.

It doesn't get much simpler than that...

Just to verify this - Shaun asked me for and I immediately agreed to free licenses for those who already donated while it was freeware. I think that's certainly fair to those people.

[Wrathchild]

ORIGINAL: Gary Gorski

ORIGINAL: Wrathchild

because I'm sure that a free 1.86 is no longer being made available.

Shaun said in the very first post that he asked for and I willingly agreed that 1.86 could be offered free forever. This just kind of proves what I'm saying that people are just jumping to whatever conclusions they see fit and aren't even listening to what we're saying.

It also kind of proves that those of us running a beta version that will now cost $35 can just go back to the last release version and wait to how quickly the price drops from $35 to a much more reasonable price. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got lots of free stuff. Heard it all a hundred times already. No one asked for anything for free. That which is freely given should not continuously be brought up into people's faces as some kind of marketing tool.

[DonBraswell]

Gary,
I think for most of us Old Timers it is such a big surprise from out of the blue.

Gary..." I'm interested if people are upset that they had to pay for PS 2007 yet people who didn't pay could get PS for free just the same as them? "
Me....It was hard to take in the begining. But I enjoy PureSim. I have been with Shaun since before the pre alpha days of 2000 and 2001 or so. ( Who can keep track. [:'(] ) But, I got past that and will get past this change also. I hope the other PureSimers will stick around and see what happens. I will say I had really hoped for some big improvements in the computer AI. Oh well, we will see. By the way, one of the things I really loved was beta testing. I may not be the best at it but loved watching the game progress. Some times going in a direction you hadn't thought of. [X(]

Gary..."There was no good way to transition something from free to being something that needs to be paid for. I've seen that first hand with some other games in our genre. To be honest, I just assumed that most people who already have the free version would just stick with it until PureSim 3 (unless like you said they were just going to buy it as their donation for all the freebies they were given) - our reasoning for getting it on the market now is to get new customers involved especially now that its the MLB postseason."
Me..... I feel for you. Typing has no facial expressions. Tone is not always perceived the way a message was intended. I guess this is why I like these smiley faces. I hope things settle down here and at Wolverine.
Don

[Gary Gorski]

I'll say this as my final piece here (hopefully)
 
The bottom line is we've acquired the game and we're going to sell the version we acquired for what we consider to be a fair price for the game itself. If you have a reason to purchase it, whatever it may be, I thank you and appreciate that. If you have a reason you don't want to purchase it, I understand that as well and we'll continue to make attempts to convince you to be a customer either now or in the future through the steps we take for all our games - that does include discounts, coupons, free promotional giveaways as well as the most important things - great games and customer support.
 
I know for some of you this was very shocking - it surprised me how fast it came together too and I apologize for that but as I said before, that's how it happened. We know there's no easy way to transition it from what it was to what it is now and I understand there are some people who have hard feelings. I hope that in the end if you love PureSim Baseball that you'll come to our community and be a part of it no matter what version of the game you choose to own. We welcome everyone from the community here to meet us over there and become part of our community and I hope that you'll at least give us a chance because we have big plans for the game going forward and we very much would like for you to be a part of them whether that means you purchase PureSim 2, PureSim 3... PureSim 17, all of the above or even none of the above.

[jff1515155]

Gentleman: You say you support Shaun??? Then let him make some money!!! It seems to me that he developed his product and delivered it for NOTHING for months!!!! Now that he has an opportunity to realize a profit from his talent and his efforts you get offended???? I have purchased previous versions of the game also with no expectations of free versions if the game was to be acquired by another company. You expect him and Wolverine to GIVE IT AWAY ????? You have enjoyed (as I have) the fruits of his efforts FOR NOTHING for the last few months and now that he has an opportunity to gain some $ for his efforts you rationialize, villify and pout like children. I will happily purchase the new version next week because I feel it is a worthwhile investment. Those of you who expect something for nothing need to either grow up or go away. SHEEEESH!!!!!

[Wrathchild]

Who the fuck asked for something for free, jff? Do you even know what you are ranting about?

[jff1515155]

If you are not looking for something for nothing, then what is your complaint??? And are you still so sure that 1.86 will not be available even though the very first posts said that it would. EITHER BUY OR CRY!!!!!

[Wrathchild]

You are a moron, sir. You don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. What are you, 12?

[jff1515155]

No I am not 12 I am in my 60's. Is your argument that you got all the updates and new versions for free for a goodly lenghth of time and you are now offended that you have to pay for further progress??? By the way can you mange to disagree with someone with out calling them names?????

[Wrathchild]

I don't see anyone claiming that they are offended by having to pay for further progress. And what is with all you people thinking that because something was free that people are somehow obligated to reciprocate? I don't give a rat's ass if something is free or not. If I don't want something based on the price of it versus what I think I'm getting I just won't buy it. Simple as that. But the fact that there was free stuff given over the past few months is COMPLETELY FUCKING IRRELEVANT. No need for people to keep bringing that up as if it has some bearing. It doesn't. THE PERSON WHO DESIGNS THE GAME MADE THE DECISION TO GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE! And he's still giving it away for free. You have a problem with that, take it up with him.

[DonBraswell]

I wasn't going to say any thing, but. There is more to this than I think you are aware of . I think the compliant is not so much about money as it is about the way things came about. We were right in the middle of a beta. We expected some fixes and a final version of PS1.87. That would make some of us happy. Some are worried about the price. Times are tough right now, as every one knows. No one here wants to loose access to our favorite toy/past time. We are hooked on this game. Many have been supporting it for years. Some are hooked on helping with testing and watching the game progress. We are use to changes. There have been many over the years. We all want Shaun to do well. That is not the problem. Wolverine purchasing the game is not the problem. I think some of this community feel we have been taken for granted and that stings a bit. Shaun in the past would say an anouncement was coming. We then knew some thing was up.

Hey, maybe I don't even know how things are. But, for me buying the game in the past was never a big deal. I was shocked when the game was made free ware. I guess I will shut up now.

[rjolley]

I agree Don. Most people are focused on the cost. That's not really the issue, at least for me. If, after 1.86, Shaun said there was something in the works and that would be the last version for a bit, that would've been fine. But, since 1.87 beta was released and we were busy working on testing it (unofficially, but that's what has happened in this community for a long while), having the game go from free beta with an impending free release to fix the issues found to paid impending release to fix the issues found is a bit jarring. As I said before, I don't fault Shaun or Gary for wanting to make money. This is one of the prime times to release a baseball game. What I don't like is having to pay for the fixes to the bugs.

Gary sees it from a totally different point of view, and he should. He really shouldn't have to defend that position. He's absolutely right in marketing the game the way he is. It just stings a bit from this side, which some may feel is a point of view not being acknowledged or addressed. I know Gary will have great sales. He always does. Just an odd feeling to go from beta testing one minute to having to pay $35 for the fixes the next. And, as I said before, this route has been taken before, just not without warning like this.

[33sherman]

I guess I can see both sides. For anyone who was very involved with the beta testing (I wasn't--I still have some issues with the game in its current form), the announcement must have been quite a shock.

But I can't be anything but happy for Shaun. I checked the last time I bought Puresim--July 1st, 2006! It's been over three years since I paid anything for Puresim, and I've enjoyed the game since I first bought Puresim 2005. That's like ten bucks a year since 2004 to watch this great baseball sim get developed. Most people pay what--$80 a month for cable TV, or more? I probably won't purchase Puresim again until there's a critical mass of new features and improvements (and probably not until spring baseball season 2010, just because) but when I do, I'll be happy to lay down the money and get on the Puresim train again.

If I'm annoyed by one thing it's that I'll have to shift forums registering and bookmarks and crap again.

[puresimmer]

Hi guys, thanks for all the feedback. Sorry I've been scarce but I just had a trans Atlantic flight yesterday and am currently working in the UK.

I'm looking forward to getting the new release out on 10/16. By all means enjoy 1.86 and keep playing that. On your own terms and at your leisure you can have a look at "PureSim 2"

[dickpierce]

I guess what I find still a bit jarring is that beta 1.87 is not finished, but we're asked to pay for the few remaining bugs because it's now called Puresim 2.  I suppose I'm saying that 1.87 should be finished off and then moving forward, a fee for the game would be acceptable.

[HotCornerDave]

ORIGINAL: Wrathchild

I don't see anyone claiming that they are offended by having to pay for further progress.

Wrathchild, I don't understand your comment at all. Ever since the price of the game was announced, a large number of the posts, both here and on the Wolverine Studios forum, have been about how it is too much to charge for the game, and how the people who have been playing PureSim for years or who have been beta testing the free versions shouldn't have to pay full price for PureSim 2, and so on. Isn't that what the whole argument is about? KG basically told Gary to go kick rocks. Others have basically done the same, but not in such a direct manner. And it's all to do with the cost of the game and Gary's perceived attitude about it. And from everything I've read, the only thing Gary did was announce the retail price of the game. I don't understand the anger at all.

It all seems so simple to me. Shaun announced that v1.86, which is the last official release, will remain free - forever. That should be great news to all of us, but for some reason it hasn't been. Those of us who were beta testing put in some good work with Shaun and Steve to get the game to that release. So what if we don't get to finish v1.87? Is that the deal breaker here? I don't get it. The game was free. We aren't entitled to anything. The deal that Shaun made with Wolverine Studios didn't include completing the free version of v1.87. So be it. If people don't want to pay, or can't pay, $35 for PureSim 2, then that's fine. They still have v1.86 to roll back to. And they don't have to pay a penny for it, which is great.

[Wrathchild]

You're right. I've rather lost track of where I was going with my line of thinking. I'm probably not even going to roll back to 1.86 since 1.87Beta was only UI changes any way.

[rich12545]

I think the biggest problem is lost trust.  Shaun made a big thing about how he was now offering PureSim for free and he really liked being able to do it and spend on it whatever time he liked without hassles.  Everybody jumped in and spent their time beta testing. We all expected this to go on until the game was finished. The current product is nice but not finished.  Now in order to get the finished product that we spent our time beta testing it will cost $35.  It's like Shaun broke his promise.  I understand why and now he'll make some more money on the game, but it's still a broken promise and it leaves us all shattered. 

We all contributed our time to PureSim 2.  What would be fair would be a free license to all of us who did that.  Then, with PureSim 3 we'd have to pay.