Demo downloaded like crazy...but

The Starships Unlimited v3 is a fun, addictive and elegant 4X space strategy game.
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Post by Supervisor »

Well, I haven't done a whole lot of demos. I usually make my mind up about a game through reviews, friends, and other descriptions that I can find. A demo can be useful, but I wouldn't say that it has ever tipped the scale in favor[\I] of a game.

In general, a well done demo can be fun, but is not usually the thing that inspires me to get the game. Now maybe I just don't do enough demos, but that's how it goes. I've enjoyed demos (Jagged Alliance 2, X-Com Apocalypse, Spaceward Ho!) and I can't say that they were unhelpful. Demos are more for a negative check on the game for me, I guess. Now the JA2 & X-Com demos were more about a small, custom scenario based on the game engine. It was nice for the wait until the game came out, but I was already determined to get them anyway. Spaceward Ho! is more like SUDG, but it's time scale was quicker than SUDG, so a 50 turn limit allowed more to happen before it quit.

A poorly set up demo can keep me from getting the game -- and not always because the game itself turns out to be bad. An example would be the Starfleet Command demo (the boxed retail version of the demo). Now I actually bought it out of the bargain bin for a couple dollars (and of course, the time had expired on the coupon for the actual game, but that's the way the bargain bin goes). The problem I had with that demo was there was no real directions on the interface and how it works in controlling the ship. I played it and blew up many of my ships, but I never really got the hang of maneuvering & combat. Since then, I have seen it on my friend's computer as he played it. It's nice, and I might pick it up in the future, but I would more likely have picked it up earlier if not for the demo.

Now, specific to the SUDG demo, it was helpful in the fact that I'm not wild about real time games, and in contrast to maximum_evil, I found the pausing to be quite useful. It would be nice to have the pausing be something that could be turned off for those who don't want it but have it toggled on by default.

And like RobertCrandall, the font is hard to read (especially against the dark background) and gets tiresome after awhile. It's just too hard to read on the screen for prolonged viewing.

The help was a little sketchier than I would have liked, but I was able to figure out quite a bit as it was, so it was adequate.

I agree that the demo is too short. Maybe if you set up a limited scenario of 1 opponent, smallest galaxy, limited ages, and let the play continue it would be better. The other possibility (that of several set, short "saved games" at different spots in the game) would do as well. But 50 turns was (IMO), just a little too short with the timescale of the game.

Now, I might just end up buying this game (or MOO3, or both) eventually. And I would have to say that the demo helped somewhat, but that I would just as likely have gotten the game without it, considering the reviews. But, since my game budget has gone to UV (:D), it will have to wait either way.

This is a long way of saying, that for me, demos are a so-so proposition. Though, I will say that this demo overall was fun and well done. I didn't hit any bugs or have any problem in installing or running it (which is in comparison to some awful running demos I've tried before).
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Post by Cranex »

I have not purchased either STUN nor STUNDG because I was
disappointed with the demos because:

1. The demos did not show me what troop invasion was like.
2. In the demo's I was unable to satisfactorily colonize new
worlds. (I like to have a decent number of worlds).
3. In the demo's I experienced very little Alien species.
4. In the demos, all I did was collect artifacts and research.

I got the impression that the game was about mainly exploring,
building freighters, colonizing 1 other world, and building 1 or two
starships.
I look for a game that has troop invasions, spying, colonizing
planets, economics. The demo's did not satisfactorily
show ALL aspects of the game.

I liked the graphics and combat very much!!!!!

IMPORTANT!!!!!!
The creator should provide a "key" that will unlock the Divided
Galaxies Demo like the STUN demo, say for $29US instead of having to ship a CD which is too expensive(I'm in Canada)

If you make the demo longer, I will download it, and give it another critique. Based on the current STUNDG demo, I would have to say,
"I will not buy STUNDG". Now that STUNDG is out, why not offer
the "unlock key" to the first STUN at a lower price, say $10. That way I can deicide if I like it. If I like it, I will definitely buy the better graphics ver. of STUNDG. And if I like it, then I will order the new STUNDG . Since their is no printed manual or tutorial, I don't see why one needs to have a CD shipped to them which is costly. The reseller in Canada, in Toronto is selling the CD for $63 Canadain. That's a hefty price for just a CD with no printed manual or tutorial. Just make the DEMO longer, and sell an unlock key to get the full benefits of the game.

ANOTHER ISSUE
I had one artifact left in a system to pick up. I selected "Pick a special mission" and the wisdom artifact was available. I clicked on it, but nothing seemed to happen. I could not get that artifact.

FINAL. Since buying SPace Empires IV, which, in my opinion, the AI needs alot of work, I am cautious about buying "shareware games". A long demo is needed so I can't test the AI!!

I love the planet graphics, explosions, sounds and combat.
Whats ground combat like? Is it animated, or what? Does the AI invade planets or just blow them up? Does the AI adjust its Ship Designs to best beat my ship desighs? One of the MAJOR problems with SE4 is that the AI is not apparently able to see its enemies planets fortifications)ground bases, missile bases, etc. The AI in MOO3 could see my unfortified planets would go and kill or invade them and ignore my heavily armed planets. Se4 will send a excort ship against my heavily armed home planet.

THE BOTTOM LINE............Make the original STUN or STUNDG DEMO very long, but leave in invading planets, have only one type of screen, or just limit some stuff like you can't save. I would like all the pregame customizations on.THAT's IMPORTANT.

I will not fork out $60 to $100 based on either demos.

Thankyou for reading my opinion.:)
The major problem with human beings is that they are unable to sit in a chair quietly and silently by themselves in a room for an hour doing nothing except observing their mind.
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Post by madmax88 »

This is probably the major turnoff.

Shipping.

Like Cranex mentioned, you should sell a downloadable version of the game for a slightly lower price (no cd, no box). Afterall, it's so small in size.
- -mAdMAx
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Marc von Martial
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Post by Marc von Martial »

(I'm in Canada)


Check our dealers page, we have a reseller in Canada.

www.matrixgames.com/insidemg/dealers.php
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Post by Chumpington »

it Sucks
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Post by Supervisor »

it Sucks

Now, THAT gives a lot of information to the developers on just what the problem(s) with the demo may be. :rolleyes:

If it sucks, why?

Your opinion is as valid as anyone's. But it would be nice to know why you didn't like the demo. Is it the demo? The game itself? Or, what?
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Post by Chumpington »

I did. After spending a hour or so crafting a post on why I didn't like the demo and will not buy the game. I tried to post it and got a screen telling me to login. I was already logged in. When I logged in a second time I lost my posting. This web site is run a lot like the game (all screwed up, no documentation, help is a joke, in short an exercise in frustration). I did like the fact that the tool tips flashed at the bottom of the screen for 2 seconds with all the buttons at the top of the screen. It takes a lot of thought to come up with "helpful features" like that. I am glad they put out a demo, I may have bought the game based on the reviews. I just don't like games like this. I can sit there and hope I figure out the interface, rules, and what the heck is going on. Let alone come up stratagy for playing. I hate software like this, game or not. I have my share of stupid software I don't need more.

P.S. this God **** site is doing the login dance again!!
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Post by Paul Vebber »

Do you have cookies activated? If you let the cookies that know you have logged on work, it works fine.
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Marc von Martial
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Post by Marc von Martial »

I have my share of stupid software I don't need more.


Some times it not only the software. And this is based on long years of doing support.
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Post by Kahn »

Well if you care to hear what a former game developer and computer game reviewer has to say, here it is.

The Demo:

Too short!!! Should be 200 years long (just enough to get into some trouble), and include a tutorial scenario (just have the tips popup automatically and layout a couple of opponents, say one of your edain and two of the opposing edain close enough to encounter all of them before the time limit).

The Game:

Shipping Costs are way out of line. Asking folks to wait 8 days or more (and that's using your cheepest option) and having them pay a minimum surcharge of 22% of the purchase price is outragious! Combine this with the printer unfriendly manual spanning 140 pages and you should well understand why most consumers would rather choose a game that they can pick out at the local Electronics Boutique or Babbages for the same price that requires no waiting, no surcharge, and comes with a printed manual!

To be quite honest, the game places squarely between SE and MOO in quality (I would say on par with R4TS, which barely beats it out in graphics, but SU wins hands down in AI, depth, and playability.) But with an overall price tag rivaling that of CivIII and AoE when first released, your sales will never be more than mediocre.

As far as I can see, you have one of two choices in order to make the game a commercial success. Ether repackage the game with a printed manual and hire a distributer to put it on store shelves for the price of 40 bucks, or eliminate the media altogether and sell the game via download (all the crap that's on the CD now) for between $25 and $30.

I realize this may be a little tough to swallow, but as it stands right now you have a good product that's priced not to move. Your business model is hampered by the worst of what both retail sales (shipping costs, unit production costs) and internet sales (single point of sale, lack of consumer recognition) have to offer. You can't expect to succeed by attempting to straddle both business models! There's a reason no major game publisher exists based upon the same model you currently employ, because they're ether dead, or can't gain enough market share to grow. You have to decide to adopt ether the Retail Model (high production and advertising costs mitigated by enormus volume generated by thousands of points of sale and brand recognition) or the Internet Model (low cost, low volume, low name recognition, but consumers can receive the product in less time than it would take to drive to the store, and for far less cost to you than is involved with producing and distributing hard media). It would be a shame to see such a good product come and go without much notice by the millions of gamers at large due to a poor business model.
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Marc von Martial
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Post by Marc von Martial »

Shipping Costs are way out of line. Asking folks to wait 8 days or more (and that's using your cheepest option) and having them pay a minimum surcharge of 22% of the purchase price is outragious!


Go and tell tha the parcels and mail services, we do not make those prices and did our very best to get discounts on the shippment costs and got some.
hire a distributer to put it on store shelves for the price of 40 bucks, or eliminate the media altogether and sell the game via download (all the crap that's on the CD now) for between $25 and $30.


Sorry to say we do not have the bribe money for that few shelv places.

Can you imagine what investments in hardware and bandwith the download feature means? At the moment it is not possible for us to provide the costumers with a decent bandwith to make any download feature for our "crap" reasonable. Ever thougt about the people with small bandwith modem? Not everybody is lucky enough to have cable and or ADSL.

We pay a huge bunch of money each month to keep this site loading fast and the important downloads available.
I realize this may be a little tough to swallow


No it´s not, as you forget about a few little things. If we had a decent stock of cash back under our beds I would say yes, let´s invest that, the guy is right, but unfortunatly we´re at the beginning of all this and do not have the cash in spare ;)
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Post by Cranex »

First, if you provide "key" to unlock STUN game, why can't STUNDG do the same.

Second, I have now have an ADSL high speed modem.

Third, is it expensive for your company to re-release a longer STUNDG demo? Without knowing how the game plays, I won't buy.

Fourth, If I buy the STUN "key", does STUN have the same features as STUNDG? (Only worse graphics)

Does STUN or STUNDG have ground combat or captureing planets? Ground combat??? Is there actual ground combat
like SE4, Moo2, etc....

Fifth, I would appreciate someone who has the STUNDG game,
to give a good description of what the games features are..

FINALLY, Railroad Tycoon Demo allows the player to play only 2 scenarios, however, you have all the abilities of a non demo game. I can play for 12 hours, and really get a feel for the game, and if I want more scenarios, I buy. I will never buy another game without thoroughly playing a good demo. I have too many games collecting dust on my bookshelf. No more. Basically, I prefer turn-based games. MAKE YOUR DEMO LONGER SO YOU CAN PLAY ONLY ONE RACE TO COMPLETION. DON'T EXCLUDE ASSAULT PODS (WHOSE STUPID IDEA WAS THAT) .

THE SHIPPING VS. UNLOCK KEY METHOD IS IRRELAVANT! aLTHOUGH i PREFER THE LATTER SINCE YOU HAVE AN OPTION TO BUY THE UNLOCK KEY WITH THE FIRST GAME, STUN.

BOTTOM LINE: IF I ENJOY A DEMO, I WILL BUY!!!@!@!@
SHOW OFF YOUR PRODUCT WITH A GOOD DEMO, OR BANKRUPTCY

how is the AI? stupid, smart?
how many colonies can you own?
how big is the galaxy?
How many systems?
How long does it take to play a game? 4 hrs, 5 days, two weeks?
Are there small universes, medium, large?
What customization is available?
Is there ground combat?
Any animations?
Is spying fun?
Can you negotiate with AI?

Can a player fill me in?;) ;) ;)
The major problem with human beings is that they are unable to sit in a chair quietly and silently by themselves in a room for an hour doing nothing except observing their mind.
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Post by Vaaish »

Animations? Such as a cutscene? if so, yes Though I wish I had had about a month or two more to work on it.

yes you can customize elements, like the ship graphics and aliens.
-Vaaish
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Post by screamer »

thank god there are demos i downloaded the strategic command demo from battlefront and now i know NONO not for me rrrrrrr
poep
Kahn
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Well...

Post by Kahn »

I was a little reticent on publishing my comments, because of the way in which they might ruffle some fethers, but you did ask. I realize (having run two small businesses myself some time ago) that a business can be much more than a means to make money to those who have started and nurtured it throughout it's inception. It is a vision, a dream or concept of it's creator.

Unfortunately, some folks can't get away from the emotions tied to the business to see clearly, a pitfall that has lead a significant number of businesses to ruin. But you must always keep in mind that a business is nothing more than a market entity. No market, no business! A business is always a slave to the market, not the other way around. This concept is true not just for businesses, but in everyday life.

To illistrate, my family and I recently looked at a very large Victorian mansion on a 1.1 acres that was priced at $175,000 (that's a really great price for a home of that size). It appeared to need some repair from the outside, but still had solid oak and mahogany beams and woodwork in fine condition (you can't get 16" x 16" x 30' solid oak beams anymore, not since the 1930's). Tiffany stained glass, most in excellent condition. Heck, just the front doors, various examples of stained glass, and the large crystal chandeller alone are worth as much as the price of the house. We thought the house was perfect. It was only after looking over the inspector's report that we decided not to buy. Seems one of those Oak beams (one of the four that are the main structural support for the house) had termite damage, and asbestos was present in the basement. The point is that event though the house appealed to my emotions (and still does), my logic told me that just the structural restoration alone would run well over the $100,000 I had budgeted for all the restorations.

The money problems you allude to is precisely why your best bet is to go with the Internet sales business model. I willing to bet that for a fraction of the cost that you expend in producing hard media, packaging, and logistics, you could pay for space on a server that has a dedicated T3 connection! You gotta stop thinking inside the box that you've placed yourself in. You don't have to buy the server and T1 or T3 yourself and place it on your premises. I must get spamed at least 6 times a month with offers from server farms that are willing to lease you 100 Megs for only a single digit percentage of what you sell! That's part of the beauty of the Internet model, you don't have to even be in the same country as the server that runs your website (I presume you should know this already by your statement about this forum). And now is the perfect time to find one of these deals, the server farm business is hurting for cash right now due to the "dot com" crash.

If I didn't care about you and your company, I wouldn't have bothered to spend my time to respond to your question in the first place. I think you should say a thank you every night before retiring to Andrew for giving you such a good product to sell. If it weren't for him, I wouldn't have even heard of this site, nor spent the exorbitant total cost to enrich you, him, and UPS. We need more small publishers in the business to succeed so that the marketplace doesn't become dominated by a few, unimaginative companies that have carte blanche to release uninspired, buggy crap with no customer support. Believe it or not, I'm on your side.
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Paul Vebber
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Post by Paul Vebber »

I will do just that, THANKS ANDREW!

and you, Kahn, for thought provoking reply...
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Post by Kahn »

You're quite welcome :)
"The one you have to watch out for is the one you don't see comming!"
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Pay for Download

Post by Ironside »

I live in England and can't afford the shipping fees. It would bring the total to around $55. Not cheap. However I would be happy to download a version and pay for an activation key for $30 or $35.
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Post by willgamer »

I d/l'd but am not ready to buy (yet anyway).

I can't offer much new, as a fan of indies, other than to echo the above points:

1. demo too short; doesn't leave me wanting more. Example- the recent Strategic Command demo has an entire year of game play, typically ending with Moscow about to be taken! Talk about motivation for WW2 grogs!

2. Font is horrible (at least for us over age 40 players)

3. No unlock to full version. This is the worst part of all to me. Example- recently bought GENEFORGE from Spiderwebsoftware.com. Not a world beater RTS, but it had a long, immersive demo, a instant unlock upon payment, and a $25 price tag (out the door).

Hope this helps. :)
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Post by madmax88 »

Willgamer wrote:
2. Font is horrible...

Patch 1.2 for the complete version comes with mods that allow you to change the font. The example included is a much better alternative to the old font, and a lot easier to read.
- -mAdMAx
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