AI

[MrRoadrunner]

I've stated, and still believe, that EA is as gamey or more so than non EA.
You are chiseled in granite so I will not bore anyone with any explanations.
I'm just glad it is optional.

RR

[kool_kat]

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

I've stated, and still believe, that EA is as gamey or more so than non EA.
You are chiseled in granite so I will not bore anyone with any explanations.
I'm just glad it is optional.

RR

All CS players can be thankful EA is "optional" instead of hard wired into the game? [8D]

[MrRoadrunner]

The problem will still be that the new upgrades will always have EA in mind. Unless they put in a more mild assault algorithm and make that one the default?
IMO, EA is still a bane to the system. [:(] Even as an option.

RR

[bshirt7]

ORIGINAL: Huib

One of the main reasons HAL seems so stupid is because a lot of the existing scenarios designed for play vs Computer are weak designs. It seems the old designers did not have enough experience as "players" to judge when a scn is a challenge and when it is too easy. Not having EA also did not help. Who could foresee back then that the game would by hijacked by a gamey surround, disrupt, assault trick. No HAL would ever have an answer on such exploitation.

There is really a lot to be won there.

I just finished designing an LCG for Modern Wars and I'm sure even veteran players will have to work hard to be succesful in that one.
In fact in some of the scenarios I lost more sp than HAL did! Over the last year I lost more games to HAL than to human opponents...

Huib

I agree.

I remember some Talonsoft scenarios that had me shaking like a leaf on a tree. I too do not have the endless time required to spend on H2H play. With a well designed scenario the AI will give you all the challenges you want.

Indeed, to each their own.

[kool_kat]

ORIGINAL: bshirt7

I too do not have the endless time required to spend on H2H play. With a well designed scenario the AI will give you all the challenges you want.

Indeed, to each their own.

Frankly, H2H play does NOT require "endless" time... in fact, making a PBeM turn is usually only a 20 - 30 minute exercise or less (depending on the scenario size). Most PBeM players have several games underway... so you can almost guarantee that on any given day, you will have a turn waiting to play in your email inbox.

When I first got started with CS over 12 years ago (under the TalonSoft brand)... I played the AI exclusively. However, once I was introduced to H2H play... I never looked back!

I might fire up a scenario (while I'm waiting for the next PBeM turn) and play a few rounds with HAL. But I quickly realize why I prefer H2H play!

So... if you play the AI and are satisfied with your gaming experience... more power to you! Congratulations! [:D]

But if you have never played H2H... then I urge you to give PBeM a try. IMHO, it is well worth the time investment! [8D]

[torpoint]

I have to disagree Mike! All fair and well, you can have a few games on the go with PBEM but, their is no spontaneity for many, hopping from one game to the other every other day.
I designed a massive game which, with the average turn rate, could have taken another year and a half to play out. If the A1 was fine then it would have been great to play it solo as and when I wished. Since finishing it I have taken a selection of games on and have not had anywhere near the enjoyment I've had with self-designed scenarios. Unfortunately the limitations of the A1 means there are only a very few one can test them out with. Many others feel the same. A decent A1 is just as important to many players as PBEM is to others.
In various posts you 'push' the pbem and the fact you can play many games at the same time, ''20/30 minutes per turn'' Given a selection of 4 to 7 games on the go, all disjointed, are you telling me that it cannot be as enjoyable to play one game against the A1 playing a couple of hours per night, given that the A1 is a 'worthy opponent'' ?
People posting here are discussing improving the A1, let them have their' say, eh?

[kool_kat]

ORIGINAL: torpoint

...are you telling me that it cannot be as enjoyable to play one game against the A1 playing a couple of hours per night, given that the A1 is a 'worthy opponent'' ?
People posting here are discussing improving the A1, let them have their' say, eh?

I never stated that! Please note that I would very much like to have a "more worthy" AI in CS! It would be a great asset! But, given the fact that the current AI is "subpar" at best... and a "rebuilt" and "improved" AI is at least 1-2 years in the future... why not try PBeM? [&:]

[torpoint]

Because the posters' may not be interested in PBEM? I believe someone said that?
Perhaps if people pushed the A1 revamp, rather than plugging PBEM, then it may be conceivable that Matrix may put more emphasis in improving the A1 sooner than 1-2 years?

[kool_kat]

ORIGINAL: torpoint

Because the posters' may not be interested in PBEM? I believe someone said that?
Perhaps if people pushed the A1 revamp, rather than plugging PBEM, then it may be conceivable that Matrix may put more emphasis in improving the A1 sooner than 1-2 years?

My apologies. I`ll keep my posts focused on the CS AI.

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: torpoint

I have to disagree Mike! All fair and well, you can have a few games on the go with PBEM but, their is no spontaneity for many, hopping from one game to the other every other day.
I designed a massive game which, with the average turn rate, could have taken another year and a half to play out. If the A1 was fine then it would have been great to play it solo as and when I wished. Since finishing it I have taken a selection of games on and have not had anywhere near the enjoyment I've had with self-designed scenarios. Unfortunately the limitations of the A1 means there are only a very few one can test them out with. Many others feel the same. A decent A1 is just as important to many players as PBEM is to others.
In various posts you 'push' the pbem and the fact you can play many games at the same time, ''20/30 minutes per turn'' Given a selection of 4 to 7 games on the go, all disjointed, are you telling me that it cannot be as enjoyable to play one game against the A1 playing a couple of hours per night, given that the A1 is a 'worthy opponent'' ?
People posting here are discussing improving the A1, let them have their' say, eh?

I like when the forum volunteer police come out to direct the flow of discussions. [8|]

Might I say that if you design a scenario that is too big to play that you have lost the perspective of game scale?
Hopefully it is not one of those 300 to 400 turn monsters that totally disregard the game scale and developers intent? [X(]
That said, anyone can make any size or kind of scenario they wish. It's the best part of the game when you can remove scenario files and not download custom scenario that you do not like?

Mike has his points and should not be shut down due to discussions of the AI. Stifling Mike's enthusiasm for PBEM is in bad form. He never put anyone down for just playing versus the AI? [:-]

I do not mind having a campaign to play, in the back pocket, when my PBEM games are running slow. I cannot play the AI in scenarios except for using it as an opponent during the balancing of scenario design process.

The AI will not ever be perfected. I think playing it with extreme assault rules on and fixing the AI HQ's in the scenario file before starting play goes a long way to helping it to be a more formidable opponent.

Play on in any form you wish. It's always made the game great.

RR

[kool_kat]

ORIGINAL: torpoint

Perhaps if people pushed the A1 revamp, rather than plugging PBEM, then it may be conceivable that Matrix may put more emphasis in improving the A1 sooner than 1-2 years?

Actually, a rebuilt and improved AI is on the Matrix drawing boards... based on Jason's previous posts? [&:] IMO, it is not more CS players desiring an improved AI that will "accelerate" development... it is more a question of Matrix bandwidth and resource constrains that is gating factor here.

Hopefully... I did not step over the "lines" with this post?

[torpoint]

Volunteer Forum Police?
Shut down and stifle Mike's enthusiasm for pbem,
bad form?
Crikey RR! If you wanna venture into forum etiquette perhaps you should understand that hijacking someone's thread about the A1 with PBEM fanfares ain't particularly correct attitude either?
If Mike wants to post a thread about the virtues of PBEM fine with me!

I didn't say the large scenarios were to big to play, they were great fun and results reached as well.
What's the scale btw? [:D]

[MrRoadrunner]

I comment on them as I see them. [8D]
I do not believe that Mike set out, took over this thread.

I do believe you think you are the "forum policeman". You can read all other threads and let us know how good or bad they are? [8|]

The scale is what is printed in the manual and in all the tables. Find it yourself and you may learn something along the way? [8|]

RR

[kool_kat]

The irony of this whole "blow-up"... [&:] is that I agree with every poster who states the AI needs to be improved! [X(]

Why disagree with something that is so obvious... and fundamental to a better JTCS? [;)]

So... after 33 posts... we are all in agreement here? [&:]

[torpoint]

Fair enough Mike, no blow-up, only after the ' JTCS magistrate' jumped in [>:]

[Dan K]

Well, it's Matrix's game. They'll do with it as they see best as a company, no matter who suggests what. It's not likely people will buy more than one copy, some people who "own" it didn't even do that.
Maybe they will turn it in to a first person shooter.

[MrRoadrunner]

LOL! Dan.
Captain obvious. [:D]

Maybe they can stop selling it?
Maybe they can turn it into a wego?
Maybe they can do Mythical Campaigns and we can have dragons and wizards? [;)]

I think I owned many multiple disks when it was Talonsoft, Take2, and the original Matrix. Version 1.04 and the continuous upgrades create an environment where I do not want to own more than the one copy. [8|]

RR

[Dan K]

I've got whole box of useless and expensive Talonsoft discs. Some of those, I did buy more than one copy. In the end, they didn't even give you a cd case.

PBEM is very cool, with a dedicated advisary. But, the guy that wants to sit and play a good game against the pc should get that also, for his $60 bucks or what ever it's selling for now.

But, according to Matrix, if one wants the THE BEST AI EVER, fork out $80 for Battles From the Bulge

[MrRoadrunner]

I purchased many disks for myself and my friends.
I never got a disk without a CD case. From any of the companies that had the rights to sell the game.
I bought three or four of The Blitz expansion disks for myself and friends. They came in cases also.

Maybe the companies did not like you? [;)]

$60? Not.

Since I do not want an exciting experience against the AI will not be shelling out $80 for BftB.
If Jason and the crew of dedicated Matrix Tiller CS developers want to make the AI better I am all for it. I'm not for tinkering with the engine to fulfill the wishes of those who want to change the game.
Make it better is one thing. Changing it because a few do not like it as is, is quite another.

How it plays is more important to me. How it looks while playing it is also important. [:)]
Making it play differently is not on the top of my list. [:-]

RR

[torpoint]

I personally think we have seen the end of improvements to JTCS.
How many bugs are still there waiting for a fix still?
I would like a decent A1 and better graphics myself,
oh, and a decent England team in the World Cup !