Patch 1.04c Beta WIA: troubles report

[GShock]

AI is much better than in other games especially considering how complex and detailed the engine is.
Let's not forget the added value of longevity: u do pay dearly when u buy AgeOD at the beginning but it's a true joy to come back and see that the game is still being developed, community never abandoned, playability renewed. An increased value not everyone understands, still, if they do improve the game it is for the efforts of us all, certainly not yours with 21 posts total, no userid on ageod boards and no bugs submitted here either. [:)]

It is me actually who's asking you: What the hell are you talking about if you are not an AgeOD official or volounteer?

You do seem very well documented and, casually (ironic), stand on the same line of people who's used to deny truth, harass users (and customers i remind you), threaten them, insult them and slander them.
Stand in line then, there's plenty of room for you too...if you think that helps your cause that is. [:'(]

Don't hijack the thread please: Flames don't help debug, reports do.

[Blueprint]

ORIGINAL: GShock



It is me actually who's asking you: What the hell are you talking about if you are not an AgeOD official or volounteer?

Stangely I prefer 2 designers creating games I like and I play several hours each day who are leading a small company without much funds and now in a difficult economic trend to a troll who decides to exert reevenge for the reasons mentioned above by systematically trying to propgae the idea AGEOD games to be unplayable, on behalf of the few bucks he gave to a non official reseller.

That's like war: I have to choose my side. I'm evidently wrong. On behalf of customer's rights and free speech I should just comment jastaV for the miraculous help he gives to this company he's just chaging to publish intentionally unplayable games never fully patched.We must evidently keep the balance between the 2 sides.

So Thanks to JastaV to publish harsh reviews of AGEOD games. Thanks to JastaV to systematically explaining how unpatched are Ageod games. Thanks to jastaV to put bluntly rebuke to Lodilefty in this thread. Thanks to JastaV to delete his mod. [&o]


As he said above: ..... "I'll give it a last chance!". Thanks to his generosity

"Have to point out, last two times I sent saved turns to support@ageod.com I did not get any reply....... " Thanks to his patience.

"Notice I'm not a WIA beta-tester team member....... so I'm not compelled to save game turns any time I meet a trouble! "Thanks for remembering us how much Lodilefty is disrecpecteful to him when asling for the turn file to study the bug he mentionned

"Yes, indeed I got also a mess of troubles, CTDs, bugs, inability to complete scenarios: all that was for free!" Thanks to him for one more time signalling how much is broken the game engine he used for modding during several months.

Thanks for insulting. Thanks for being arrogant; thanks for posting on Gamespot 2 negative reviews with different nicknames. Thanks for being unfair.

Thanks.



And GSHOCK, if AGEOD disappears, I'm sure you will be delighted by the patches, mods, or bulletproof game engine JastaV will produce.

[KG Erwin]

It confuses me as to exactly why the loudest moaners don't bother to post on the Ageod forum. Each time I've had a problem, I get a prompt response.

Be that as it may, the BOA2 team seems to be responsive to identified problems, and is diligent in offering up patches. Contrary to what some of you might prefer to believe, their support is outstanding. Call me a fanboy if you wish, but I hold no regrets in investing in this game, and I trust in the developers to do the right thing.

[GShock]

LOL User with no record on ageod and 22 posts in here plays the preacher on who's trolling and thinks he knows the story?
Get yourself a calculator if you want to count how many bugs JastaV and I helped identify and document, proposing and testing solutions.
Hilarious. [:D]

Oh well...you surely already knew that. [8|]

[Gray_Lensman]

ORIGINAL: GShock

LOL User with no record on ageod and 22 posts in here plays the preacher on who's trolling and thinks he knows the story?
Get yourself a calculator if you want to count how many bugs JastaV and I helped identify and document, proposing and testing solutions.
Hilarious. [:D]

Oh well...you surely already knew that. [8|]

It doesn't really matter how many posts Blueprint has, he speaks the truth in regard to JastaV's antics. Notice this agreement is coming from someone with literally thousands of hours and posts on the AGEod site and quite a few hundred here also.

The problem with both of you, (but much more so Jasta, than you), is you both expect your work to be given top priority and if you don't get a response right away you seem to take a ridiculous offense about it. AGEod has limited resources in regard to programmer/developer time. That's what we, the volunteers, try to make up for. However, there really aren't very many of us that are actually able to completely provide turn-key data changes for the various patches. As volunteers, we choose what we want to work on, trying to give priorities to various bugs that come in, but we are so overloaded that the process gets somewhat backed up. Personally, I don't have a bit of problem with either of you guy's bug reports themselves. But I do have a problem when someone starts disparaging AGEod just because his particular bug report is not automatically placed at the top of the list.

What makes you guys think that your bug reports are any more important than the others we receive? I'll let you in on a little secret. A factual, inclusive, non-embellished bug report from someone who doesn't jump up and down making extraneous disparaging remarks about AGEod or personal chest thumping about how important they are, has a lot more chance of me, Lodilefty, or Generalisimo, looking at it and doing something about it, than one coming from the likes of Jasta with all his overbearing antics, especially now that he's thought to pull his latest cute trick of posting 2 negative reviews under 2 different names for the same product on the same site. That just kinda took things over the top as far as myself even giving him the time of day anymore.

[GShock]

The problem with both of you, (but much more so Jasta, than you), is you both expect your work to be given top priority and if you don't get a response right away you seem to take a ridiculous offense about it.

Well i can ensure you that's not what happens with me. The only problem i have, personally, is that i would like development priorities and efforts to shift and manpower to be better organized so you don't have to see bugs still being discovered 7 months after the game's release. Generally speaking no game is bug-free but the segment AgeOD has chosen, and especially, the complexity and detail level of the engine, are a major bug source...nobody's fault but has to be countered properly.

Don't take it wrong Gray, of course i prize the volounteers' jobs, they are invaluable but this development style leaves the flank open to critics coming from grognards who expect everything to be perfect in a few weeks' time.

That the game becomes a real one after a year time is not something that the average user expects or cares for when he opens his wallet and the first days after the release are the most important sales-wise.

This "style" is my only problem with AgeOD and definitely not because i am disappointed, on the contrary, i keep doing whatever i can to help you guys. As i said, it's a pleasure to "come back" after months and see the game is still improved but that's just me, patient, confident, understanding all of what's behind, can't ask that from every user, you know that.

[JastaV]

ORIGINAL: lodilefty

Very minor changes in official patch, but you should ALWAYS install official patch to be sure.

Started a new match with last official patch: same scenario ("The white of your eyes"), same side (British), completely different game!
I played some 24 turns, (two years): it's definitely better than the previous beta patch game. Good AI till now!!!!

only problem: "Amnesty to soldiers for deep south" Option is missing the hint tip: Opt_hint_Dismiss_GBR_Mil_DS.

Notice, I was not able to carry vistorious assault against Philadelphia: so I could not check, save turns and confirm previously reported trouble!
It was impossible to strike Philadelphia because AI is keeping me at bay all around the map: and that is great!

Taking replacements
I noticed, now depleted units can take replacements even when not inside a depot-city region, even quite slowly!
.... with that Indian units are expected to get replacenet at their village too?

To GShock: I strongly recommend you to give last official patch a chance!
Should you go after same scenario, ("The white of your eyes") playing USA side we could double check reporting possible missing event notification and minor bugs!

[JastaV]

The problem with both of you, (but much more so Jasta, than you), is you both expect your work to be given top priority and if you don't get a response right away you seem to take a ridiculous offense about it.

Having to wait a year from game release, (NCP is just an example) being till at bay with bugs, then waiting for months without getting new patches is something more than a long waiting.
That's not an offence to me but an offence to marketing logic.
You can figure out many customers will give up with the bugged product within months, just because customers go after new products according to a consumerist behaviour.... At worst they'll mind the bugged game producer as a non trustable company for the future!
Always according to marketing principles, few months old products, (lifetimes are very short in the PC and console game market) are usually sold for a reduced price. Keeping on, selling an old product at full price when retailed sellers are offering it for half the price is non sense... it's a marketing suicide.
Most of time 6-12 months old games are even offered for free, with PC magazines for example: GShock will confirm it as regard Italy, where you can have even 2-3 games buying some PC magazines, sometimes adding just few Euro!
Please do not regard my observations as a critic to Ageod: I'm simply reporting facts behind leading marketing strategies....... I'm not responsible for them: I did not dictated such rules.

Don't take it wrong Gray, of course i prize the volounteers' jobs, they are invaluable but this development style leaves the flank open to critics coming from grognards who expect everything to be perfect in a few weeks' time.

Any volounteers' jobs?
We had clear evidences of offensive words at Matrixgame as at other sites boards addressed to my volunteer activity!
Gray_Lensman, I have to remember you was moving mud against me few weeks later I jointed Ageod site...... It was the first of many episodes uncensored by Ageod: I could say encouraged by Ageod!
It's pathetic now you and few others are calling for me to respect and estimate my detractors!
We all have feeling the thing overboarded, but the attempts to charge me for all Ageod mistakes is grotesque.
An attempt to definitely close this trolling farse should be more realistic and useful for all people!

[dunnsa]

jastav
To be clear:

What is your setting for attrition option in main menu? Are the depleted units taking replacements [missing elements being added] or regaining strength ['red elements' improving]?

Too bad about the Philadelphia AI behavior: opportunity lost[:(]
lesson learned: Zip a saved game immediately when you think you see AI misbehavior, then you can keep playing.

We absolutely cannot do any AI improvements based on descriptions or screen shots. Only if saved games are sent to support@ageod.com can the AI team examine exactly which algorithms are causing the behavior. The entire community is part of the improvement effort.

[Gray_Lensman]

ORIGINAL: GShock

Well i can ensure you that's not what happens with me. The only problem i have, personally, is that i would like development priorities and efforts to shift and manpower to be better organized so you don't have to see bugs still being discovered 7 months after the game's release. Generally speaking no game is bug-free but the segment AgeOD has chosen, and especially, the complexity and detail level of the engine, are a major bug source...nobody's fault but has to be countered properly.

Don't take it wrong Gray, of course i prize the volounteers' jobs, they are invaluable but this development style leaves the flank open to critics coming from grognards who expect everything to be perfect in a few weeks' time.

That the game becomes a real one after a year time is not something that the average user expects or cares for when he opens his wallet and the first days after the release are the most important sales-wise.

This "style" is my only problem with AgeOD and definitely not because i am disappointed, on the contrary, i keep doing whatever i can to help you guys. As i said, it's a pleasure to "come back" after months and see the game is still improved but that's just me, patient, confident, understanding all of what's behind, can't ask that from every user, you know that.

Unfortunately, none of this happens anymore with any PC games, primarily because they are now a niche market and can't support a large company infrastructure like they did 10 years or so ago. Recent Examples: Medieval Total War...Took 6 months for the first patch and almost 2 years before the second patch. Then instead of continuing the patching process for a defective game they offer up another patch in an expansion that you have to pay for. That's one example. Another one, is the recent flop Sid Meier's Civ IV Colonization. It's been out since mid fall and still not a word about a patch or even a hint if one is imminent. In contrast, AGEod continously offers update patches on a much more frequent basis along with actual enhancements (new additions) ported over from later game releases. Show me any other company doing that. AGEod really can't do anything about the "style", because of the limited manpower availability, (you just can't organize manpower that's not available in the first place.) It makes up for it with direct customer responses on a much faster basis than almost any other gaming company out there.

I would venture to say that the great majority of grognards are reasonably satisified with the way AGEod responds to their needs because most of them understand the limitations that all wargaming companies now operate under. It's only a disgruntled few who think that AGEod needs to reorganize it's entire development structure just to suit them.

The limitation to the "style" thing that you point out, is persons actually familiar with all aspects of putting together these turnkey data fixes with the supporting database .xls file changes. There's a lot of posters that are quite willing to point out flaws, but very few capable of actually implementing the changes necessary to fix the flaws in the manner necessary for inclusion in the "official" releases. Remember, just because a fix sounds simple to implement, generally it still has to be beta tested for side issues before it can be adopted. That by itself, takes a lot of extra time, but is absolutely necessary because you don't want to replace one bug with another one. I recently read a post by you where you claimed to have been a beta for many years. If such is the case, a little effort on your part and you could learn to do MODs for yourself instead of just making pronouncements and see for yourself, the necessary work required to see a bug fix all the way thru. This might be quite enlightening to you.

[JastaV]

Too bad about the Philadelphia AI behavior: opportunity lost[:(]
lesson learned: Zip a saved game immediately when you think you see AI misbehavior, then you can keep playing.

Yes opportunity lost and my fault! Have to agree!
Unfortunately I had major practice with NCP, where all turns for a scenario are saved and available at the campaing end. That was possibly because NCP scenarios are shorter than 24 game turns... I just discovered later only 24 game turns are saved with WIA!

What is your setting for attrition option in main menu?

Hard, historical attrition rules for player and AI.

Are the depleted units taking replacements [missing elements being added] or regaining strength ['red elements' improving]?

Good question!
I was referring to depleted units regaining strenght ['red elements' improving]: it happens at any region even when a depot is not present.
Again NCP practice deceived me: [missing elements being added] is not working in NCP!
I noticed it happens occasionally with WIA: it's a quite rare event.... I was thinking it was a random event action.

[dunnsa]

ORIGINAL: JastaV
I was referring to depleted units regaining strenght ['red elements' improving]: it happens at any region even when a depot is not present.
Again NCP practice deceived me: [missing elements being added] is not working in NCP!
I noticed it happens occasionally with WIA: it's a quite rare event.... I was thinking it was a random event action.

Take care: BoA, NCP, AACW and WIA have significant differences in C&C, Supply, Attrition, etc. etc. even though they share some commonality in the 'engine'

AFAIK, Depleted elements in WIA have always regained strength in structures. Slowly, epecially in winter, but they have gained. They do gain very very slowly 'in the wild', but usually starve in Winter before you see this...

RTM: Replacing missing elements depends on your Historical Attrition setting [also see tooltip there]:
At 'none', you must be in level 2 city or higher
At 'player only' and 'Player and AI' you must be at a depot.
In any case, you must have replacements [F2 in ledger] of the type used by the missing element

This Attrition option is one of the many many signnificant changes from BoA, which taken together change the game and your strategy quite a bit.

[JastaV]

It's back!
Here is last oddity from a large battle in Philadelphia region.


- The battle resulted in a stalemate. None the less the USA, (AI side) suffered twice losses tham Player side, British.
- Usually stalemate result in a second engagement, (Combat round) in a later day. In the example The US force retired! Is that strange?
- The Retreat path is quite odd too. I was expecting USA forces should retire within the city, Philadelphia.
They instead retired to Princeton region: notice, Princeton is British controlled, with a garrisoned British fort too.
Having the USA force to retreat it should move, but within Philadelfia walls at least to a friendly controlled region: Carryel Ferry for example!

Hope the thing, the report and the attached game files will be usefull to you: I included some game turns before the engagement, the engagement turn, the post engagement turn.

Game files uploaded here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/182499259/1 ... paign0.rar

Remember: WIA, Official patch 1.04c, "The white of your eyes" scenario, British side player.

Notice: saved files and troubles e-mailed to AGEod support too!

[dunnsa]

It might help if you would upload the correct save.[&:]

USA did not fight in the 1755 campaign[8|]

[JastaV]

Lodilefty,
I please you to give posted files a glance: last game turn is relative to 1780, July from "The White of your eyes".
The save name for the campaign is quite strange: do not ask me reasons for, do not know them.

[JastaV]

Got reply from AGeod Support:

Wayne's Army was already assigned move to Princeton. This increased probability of retreat path to that location for Lee's Army, to consolidate forces and reinforce Wayne's attack.
Caryell Ferry has 'low interest'. See parameters in "Control&Retreat.opt" under \Settings Princeton has City, Fort, Depot, creating high interest.
American's didn't retreat into structure because a garrison exists there. Also were not set to 'retreat inside', as that is often suicidal.

Americans took 26 hits while retreating. [see report line after battle report line]
British were set to attack, not assault, so after inflicting hits during retreat, no further battle. Siege started.
British assaulted across a river, so were at reduced cohesion at start of battle. You are lucky any battle was even fought, and lucky to get a draw, as low cohesion will stop battles now. You are lucky that a poor commander [Charles Lee] was your opponent.

In summary, it appears fully explainable, and to me acceptable.
The retreat choices are not an AI issue, as same calculations will result with human player.
Could these parameters be tweaked? Yes, but to what? And to what effect on other situations.

Great explanation, very logic in game term, as militiry operations!
Guess no need for tweeks!
Very apreciated the so quick reply!

I'll go on with the game!
Notice I'm now in a very advantageus position: I'm sitting in front of the almost ungarrisoned enemy capital ready to assault it.
We can move "critics" to the AI decision of leaving Philadelphia ungarrisoned: A mistake! But military history pages are full with mistakes that decided battles and wars. I can trust all that!

[comte]

Jasta doesn't this game have a sanitation effect as well that the other games dont have? Good or bad sanitation effects attrition right?

[JastaV]

ORIGINAL: Aces8

Jasta doesn't this game have a sanitation effect as well that the other games dont have? Good or bad sanitation effects attrition right?

Sanitation effect?
English is not my other language so I can get confused!

Are you referring to the fact player go insane with bugs?
This aspect seems to be resolved with last patch...... isolated, scenario bugs are till possible, but hopely they could be a little thing!

Are you referring to the fact player go insane with AI opposition?
I hope so!
Extensive guerillas by AI USA forces is a terrible opponent: I love it!
And it's historically accurate for the AI side in the scenario I'm playing!

Are you referring to the game Attrition rules?
Well, they can be modulated at player will.
I was using very realistic historical attrition rules: that means terrible losses for troops unsheltered in winter weather and YES sanitation problems.... epidemics can strike troops in greater stacks, (some thousand men per stack): the fact is notified as losses caused by bad sanitary conditions in the game!

Guess JastaV will have to re-formulate his WIA review......

[JastaV]

ORIGINAL: Blueprint

It's then true download links have been broken!
By you...Your choice.

Last uploaded NCP MT install version was not perfect.[:(]
It was "work in progress", in part suffering from NCP engine troubles, in part suffering from my editing mistakes.
I was used to update NCP MT installattions, posting links to new versions frequentely, sometime with more new versions per day. (It does not mean any day!).
Any former MT member, Nikel, BB, arsan, should honestely confirm that!

Unfortunately last time I removed old NCP MT instal upload, replacing it with the updated one, I was not more able to post relative link at AGEod site, because I discovered I have been banned in the meanwhile!

Then, It's true NCP and its mods are no hosted at this site: matrixgame is not selling NCP!
So no other site was available for posting download link.

It's then true that improvements and modders' support is part of a modding activity: as regard I'm no more able to post in reply to questions.

Then, MT team has been dismissed: I broke contact, (It was not my choice!) with Nikel the graphic editor behind MT mods. As a result I have no more permission to post his artworks.... I'm not used to post 3rd party material without authors permission!

As soon the conditions should be restored, if any, I'll be pleased to post link to last NCP MT version I recentely worked!

[Blueprint]

I may wage wars but I largely prefer peace.

If interested and if possible, send me the link : i will post it on Ageod board.