Not too happy a camper here so far.
I know I'm new, but after two weeks I can't really navigate anything. As far as I'm concerned there's absolutely nothing about this system that's anywhere near intuitive, and I've been around games and industrial systems my whole life.
OK, rant over.[:D]
Nothing intuitive here, move along
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
Nothing intuitive here, move along
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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Angeldust2
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:24 am
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
In a way I can feel and sympathize with you. This was my first impression as well, some years ago. But quickly I discovered, this game provides much better tools to learn than most others! There are different paths available to master this excellent game. I started my trip of discovery by
1. Reading/Scanning the player manual (easily downloadable as .pdf from game menu)
2. Becoming reacquainted with WiF gamesystem, I "played" (Barbarossa scenario twice and Global War with 5 players till end of 1940 once) the board game 2nd edition in the end of 80's, early 90's
3. Studying the text tutorials (half a day effort)
4. Trying the interactive tutorials (short day effort): This is important to learn basic game mechanisms and also to learn how to operate the user interface and to start grasping the thinking and nomenclature of the game designer. Later, after some solitaire tinkering with the game, I came back and did the interactive tutorials completely a second time, that went much smoother. One or two chapters I did even a 3rd time after I finished the first scenario.
5. Watching the videos on YT (one day, with lots of breaks). This is time consuming and most stuff is redundant after manual, text & interactive tutorials, but still it was worth the effort for 1-2% better/more complete understanding.
6. Starting Barbarossa in solitaire and fooling around, realising that you don't know what and how to do, for both sides ... Going back to interactive tutorials for a second time.
7. Playing Barbarossa solitaire from Start to Finish. Usually the Allies are losing most battle on the map, but are winning the game nevertheless. Realising the importance of the weather roll.
8. Playing Barbarossa Fast Start scenario with another player as a mirror game by PBEM.
9. Playing Barbarossa with own set of optional rules with another player as a mirror game by PBEM.
10. All the time monitoring the MWiF forum for new info and developments. Learning by following the different detailed AAR's, both from past and present.
11. Playing Guadalcanal Fast Start scenario (very classic WiF, without PiF!) first solitaire, then with another player as a mirror game by PBEM.
12. Playing Guadalcanal with own set of optional rules with another player as a mirror game by PBEM.
13. Playing the 1-map scenarios with own set of optional rules with another player as a mirror game by PBEM. Unfortunately we are currently stalled at this point, as the two 1-map scenarios are not yet accessable. I hope, Steve will implemente them AFTER the remaining optional rules are coded and BEFORE starting to work on the AI, as he has stated some time ago in an official Matrix announcement about the future path of development.
14. Starting Global War scenario and playing a couple of turns with own set of optional rules with another player as a mirror game by PBEM.
15. Playing Global War scenario with own set of optional rules with FIVE players as a mirror game by PBEM.
16. Playing Global War scenario with own set of optional rules with another player as a mirror game by netplay. In this moment, I think this pinnacle of gamesmanship in MWiF is not feasible.
Not only seems netplay to be not yet fully stable, but it seems the game lends itself more to the PBEM mode, due to scope of the game and time needed for every phase and subphase. Playing by PBEM allows for taking all the time needed, without locking your opponent to his computer without doing anything and getting bored to death.
Hope this helps, the described approach worked for me, so far ...
1. Reading/Scanning the player manual (easily downloadable as .pdf from game menu)
2. Becoming reacquainted with WiF gamesystem, I "played" (Barbarossa scenario twice and Global War with 5 players till end of 1940 once) the board game 2nd edition in the end of 80's, early 90's
3. Studying the text tutorials (half a day effort)
4. Trying the interactive tutorials (short day effort): This is important to learn basic game mechanisms and also to learn how to operate the user interface and to start grasping the thinking and nomenclature of the game designer. Later, after some solitaire tinkering with the game, I came back and did the interactive tutorials completely a second time, that went much smoother. One or two chapters I did even a 3rd time after I finished the first scenario.
5. Watching the videos on YT (one day, with lots of breaks). This is time consuming and most stuff is redundant after manual, text & interactive tutorials, but still it was worth the effort for 1-2% better/more complete understanding.
6. Starting Barbarossa in solitaire and fooling around, realising that you don't know what and how to do, for both sides ... Going back to interactive tutorials for a second time.
7. Playing Barbarossa solitaire from Start to Finish. Usually the Allies are losing most battle on the map, but are winning the game nevertheless. Realising the importance of the weather roll.
8. Playing Barbarossa Fast Start scenario with another player as a mirror game by PBEM.
9. Playing Barbarossa with own set of optional rules with another player as a mirror game by PBEM.
10. All the time monitoring the MWiF forum for new info and developments. Learning by following the different detailed AAR's, both from past and present.
11. Playing Guadalcanal Fast Start scenario (very classic WiF, without PiF!) first solitaire, then with another player as a mirror game by PBEM.
12. Playing Guadalcanal with own set of optional rules with another player as a mirror game by PBEM.
13. Playing the 1-map scenarios with own set of optional rules with another player as a mirror game by PBEM. Unfortunately we are currently stalled at this point, as the two 1-map scenarios are not yet accessable. I hope, Steve will implemente them AFTER the remaining optional rules are coded and BEFORE starting to work on the AI, as he has stated some time ago in an official Matrix announcement about the future path of development.
14. Starting Global War scenario and playing a couple of turns with own set of optional rules with another player as a mirror game by PBEM.
15. Playing Global War scenario with own set of optional rules with FIVE players as a mirror game by PBEM.
16. Playing Global War scenario with own set of optional rules with another player as a mirror game by netplay. In this moment, I think this pinnacle of gamesmanship in MWiF is not feasible.
Not only seems netplay to be not yet fully stable, but it seems the game lends itself more to the PBEM mode, due to scope of the game and time needed for every phase and subphase. Playing by PBEM allows for taking all the time needed, without locking your opponent to his computer without doing anything and getting bored to death.
Hope this helps, the described approach worked for me, so far ...
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
ORIGINAL: rustysi
Not too happy a camper here so far.
I know I'm new, but after two weeks I can't really navigate anything. As far as I'm concerned there's absolutely nothing about this system that's anywhere near intuitive, and I've been around games and industrial systems my whole life.
OK, rant over.[:D]
I totally agree. a lot of functions and options - that were already taken in the beta version of Chris Marinacci (16 bit)- are missing. Fortunately, I have an old notebook that I can still play with. The new version is "older than the old". And it's not cheap either. Money literally thrown away.
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Angeldust2
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:24 am
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
Oh, could you please elaborate a little bit more on the lot of functions and options, which were already fully functional in Marinacci's CWiF and which are now still missing?
IMHO MWiF offers the best value for money for a computer game by far. As you can see from my post #2 in this thread, MWiF leads to immersing in the game not by hours or days, but for months and years! Also, the ongoing support, bugfixing, developing and improving, even adding new functions after so many years is exemplary and the community is very thankful for these unselfish efforts.
I consider the list price for this gem of a strategic wargame neglectable. If somebody cannot afford it, Matrix has it on sale several times a year for a ridiculously low discount price, last such sale was not even a month ago.
IMHO MWiF offers the best value for money for a computer game by far. As you can see from my post #2 in this thread, MWiF leads to immersing in the game not by hours or days, but for months and years! Also, the ongoing support, bugfixing, developing and improving, even adding new functions after so many years is exemplary and the community is very thankful for these unselfish efforts.
I consider the list price for this gem of a strategic wargame neglectable. If somebody cannot afford it, Matrix has it on sale several times a year for a ridiculously low discount price, last such sale was not even a month ago.
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Joseignacio
- Posts: 2966
- Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 11:25 am
- Location: Madrid, Spain
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
I hear you, rustysi
I am an experienced WIF player, and I went through the books fast when I first tried the game and thought that would be all the necessary, cause the game would be intuitive. Some aspects are, but some other are just the opposite, starting by selecting a fighter with a land bombing factor, that the game doesnt ask you if you want to be bombing, or intercepting/escorting . The game assumes it's the latter unless you use a drop-down menu before moving it. You forget, you cant bomb. I guess it had to be this way or you would have endless popup windows to ask in which mission you send every plane you move with this caaracteristics...
But the truth is that if you dont study dutifully all the ins and out of the game, like how to overrun land units, how to select the engineers specific abiliies, how to load a unit from the coast or many others, you may miss many possibiities and if you know WIF you'll start finding unexisting bugs all the time because you cant do what you should be able to do.
Production is a nightmare, not only you need to learn a lot of mechanisms to get it right but also that doesnt mean the game will accept you instructions because there is an AI that will cancel some of yout commands if it doesnt see it fit. Not only in the case your routes are impossible because of lack of convoys but because the AI insists in carrying your resources through inefficient, redundant routes, wasting your deployed convoys and stopping other resources to arrive.
It's a pity because this game I can only define as a Jewel, but it is not completely polished.
I am an experienced WIF player, and I went through the books fast when I first tried the game and thought that would be all the necessary, cause the game would be intuitive. Some aspects are, but some other are just the opposite, starting by selecting a fighter with a land bombing factor, that the game doesnt ask you if you want to be bombing, or intercepting/escorting . The game assumes it's the latter unless you use a drop-down menu before moving it. You forget, you cant bomb. I guess it had to be this way or you would have endless popup windows to ask in which mission you send every plane you move with this caaracteristics...
But the truth is that if you dont study dutifully all the ins and out of the game, like how to overrun land units, how to select the engineers specific abiliies, how to load a unit from the coast or many others, you may miss many possibiities and if you know WIF you'll start finding unexisting bugs all the time because you cant do what you should be able to do.
Production is a nightmare, not only you need to learn a lot of mechanisms to get it right but also that doesnt mean the game will accept you instructions because there is an AI that will cancel some of yout commands if it doesnt see it fit. Not only in the case your routes are impossible because of lack of convoys but because the AI insists in carrying your resources through inefficient, redundant routes, wasting your deployed convoys and stopping other resources to arrive.
It's a pity because this game I can only define as a Jewel, but it is not completely polished.
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
Thanks for the replies guys.
Yeah, I'm doing due diligence as to reading and studying stuff, but thought that after a bit I could go to the map and runs some stuff. Just wanted to start poking around and looking at things. With all the setup stuff, can't do it. Oh well, I guess I can poke around the mini-scenarios.
I get that there may be some things here that don't work quite right. But have you ever played WitP-AE from the Japanese side? I have for years now and its production complexity puts this thing to shame.[:D] Things must be finely balanced and if not you may not know for 'game years' until your economy crashes and you're only in 1944.[X(]
Yeah, I'm doing due diligence as to reading and studying stuff, but thought that after a bit I could go to the map and runs some stuff. Just wanted to start poking around and looking at things. With all the setup stuff, can't do it. Oh well, I guess I can poke around the mini-scenarios.
Production is a nightmare, not only you need to learn a lot of mechanisms
I get that there may be some things here that don't work quite right. But have you ever played WitP-AE from the Japanese side? I have for years now and its production complexity puts this thing to shame.[:D] Things must be finely balanced and if not you may not know for 'game years' until your economy crashes and you're only in 1944.[X(]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
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Joseignacio
- Posts: 2966
- Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 11:25 am
- Location: Madrid, Spain
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
I have not played Witp but the problem here is that production fine tunning is somewhat complicated by itself, with the convoys setting, the replacement of losses, and my hated production gearing limits:
But then it comes the MWIF system, which needs of a chapter in the book and several videos, the central one lasting more than 1 hour, to be able to handle production. Really intuitive.
And that is not all because the system doesnt even work, aside from a (recent, I believe) bug affecting resources coming from trade agreement, the game has kind of an AI that doesn't let you do convoy lines where there are not enough convoys for example. Problem is that sometimes it doesn't let you where there are convoys, because this AI uses the convoys inefficiently, routing them through stupid turns and doesnt let you correct them (if you correct one then it modifyes another to get the same stupid route).
Because of this, you need to have X extra convoys in some areas of the other routes , where the AI has stupidly used convoys it needn't use. Using X extra convoys alters the game, because you need to have the extra convoys first (out of your reserve for subs attacks), which is not always possible or wise, and besides they become a juicier objective for the enemy.
The worst of it is that this is almost the only huge black spot in a wonderful, brilliant developenment such as MWIF of an amazing complexity, and could be solved by simply let you decide where your convoys go and carrying what, with an error message if the route you decided sea by sea was impossible and why,
The AI makes me furious every time. No matter that I follow the instructions, I always end with like 3 resources less as CW. That's a lot in more than 30 turns. Some players have had to edit the files to get more convoys (but they are still a bigger objective for subs than they should be) or just storing more oil in replacement of the lost ones.
To have this in this game is like having a diamond covered in sh*t, it would just need a good wash so everybody could appreciate it's beauty but at the moment, it's pretty stinky and ugly.
But then it comes the MWIF system, which needs of a chapter in the book and several videos, the central one lasting more than 1 hour, to be able to handle production. Really intuitive.
And that is not all because the system doesnt even work, aside from a (recent, I believe) bug affecting resources coming from trade agreement, the game has kind of an AI that doesn't let you do convoy lines where there are not enough convoys for example. Problem is that sometimes it doesn't let you where there are convoys, because this AI uses the convoys inefficiently, routing them through stupid turns and doesnt let you correct them (if you correct one then it modifyes another to get the same stupid route).
Because of this, you need to have X extra convoys in some areas of the other routes , where the AI has stupidly used convoys it needn't use. Using X extra convoys alters the game, because you need to have the extra convoys first (out of your reserve for subs attacks), which is not always possible or wise, and besides they become a juicier objective for the enemy.
The worst of it is that this is almost the only huge black spot in a wonderful, brilliant developenment such as MWIF of an amazing complexity, and could be solved by simply let you decide where your convoys go and carrying what, with an error message if the route you decided sea by sea was impossible and why,
The AI makes me furious every time. No matter that I follow the instructions, I always end with like 3 resources less as CW. That's a lot in more than 30 turns. Some players have had to edit the files to get more convoys (but they are still a bigger objective for subs than they should be) or just storing more oil in replacement of the lost ones.
To have this in this game is like having a diamond covered in sh*t, it would just need a good wash so everybody could appreciate it's beauty but at the moment, it's pretty stinky and ugly.
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
All I can say is that this will hopefully be corrected in time, and it won't take too much longer.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
warspite1ORIGINAL: rustysi
All I can say is that this will hopefully be corrected in time, and it won't take too much longer.
Right rustysi, if you are serious about learning this game then let's do that. And what is this I hear about you faffing around with 'mini-scenarios'?? Did I hear you right soldier? Mini-scenarios? To hell with that, are you a man or a mouse?
You've played WITP-AE so man (or should I say person these days) up and get on with it. We can go through this step by step. What I can't help you with is the convoy/production system because at the moment that is something of a b****** child. However, you are learning this wonderful game with a solitaire so that really doesn't matter much at this stage.
Now, fire up a Global War game immediatement (as we say en Francais) and choose the optionals below.
I and others (who actually understand what they are doing) will be here to run through your questions. You can post lots of pictures - preferably of the game (but you can include Alison Brie, Jenna Coleman or Mary Elizabeth Winstead if you really must) and we can take it from there.
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Now Maitland, now's your time!
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
Hear, hear.
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett
A government is a body of people; usually, notably, ungoverned. - Quote from Firefly
A government is a body of people; usually, notably, ungoverned. - Quote from Firefly
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
Sounds like somebody had their Wheaties this morning.ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1ORIGINAL: rustysi
All I can say is that this will hopefully be corrected in time, and it won't take too much longer.
Right rustysi, if you are serious about learning this game then let's do that. And what is this I hear about you faffing around with 'mini-scenarios'?? Did I hear you right soldier? Mini-scenarios? To hell with that, are you a man or a mouse?
You've played WITP-AE so man (or should I say person these days) up and get on with it. We can go through this step by step. What I can't help you with is the convoy/production system because at the moment that is something of a b****** child. However, you are learning this wonderful game with a solitaire so that really doesn't matter much at this stage.
Now, fire up a Global War game immediatement (as we say en Francais) and choose the optionals below.
I and others (who actually understand what they are doing) will be here to run through your questions. You can post lots of pictures - preferably of the game (but you can include Alison Brie, Jenna Coleman or Mary Elizabeth Winstead if you really must) and we can take it from there.
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- Wheatiesboxcover.jpg (223.33 KiB) Viewed 569 times
Ronnie
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Joseignacio
- Posts: 2966
- Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 11:25 am
- Location: Madrid, Spain
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1ORIGINAL: rustysi
All I can say is that this will hopefully be corrected in time, and it won't take too much longer.
Right rustysi, if you are serious about learning this game then let's do that. And what is this I hear about you faffing around with 'mini-scenarios'?? Did I hear you right soldier? Mini-scenarios? To hell with that, are you a man or a mouse?
You've played WITP-AE so man (or should I say person these days) up and get on with it. We can go through this step by step. What I can't help you with is the convoy/production system because at the moment that is something of a b****** child. However, you are learning this wonderful game with a solitaire so that really doesn't matter much at this stage.
Now, fire up a Global War game immediatement (as we say en Francais) and choose the optionals below.
I and others (who actually understand what they are doing) will be here to run through your questions. You can post lots of pictures - preferably of the game (but you can include Alison Brie, Jenna Coleman or Mary Elizabeth Winstead if you really must) and we can take it from there.
[:D]
[:D]Yeah, I deserved that and then some.
At the present I'm just trying to learn the interface.
As far as WitP-AE goes, I studied the game for a long time before I posted anything. I did jump right into the GC, but I had played PACWAR, and WitP before previously.
TBH, I'm only going with the short scenarios here because I don't have to get involved with the set-up. Once I understand the interface I'll jump to the 'Global War' game, which is where I want to be.
Thanks warspite1, I hope we can play sometime so I can learn the lessens I'm sure you may teach myself.[:D]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
ORIGINAL: warspite1
warspite1ORIGINAL: rustysi
All I can say is that this will hopefully be corrected in time, and it won't take too much longer.
Right rustysi, if you are serious about learning this game then let's do that. And what is this I hear about you faffing around with 'mini-scenarios'?? Did I hear you right soldier? Mini-scenarios? To hell with that, are you a man or a mouse?
You've played WITP-AE so man (or should I say person these days) up and get on with it. We can go through this step by step. What I can't help you with is the convoy/production system because at the moment that is something of a b****** child. However, you are learning this wonderful game with a solitaire so that really doesn't matter much at this stage.
Now, fire up a Global War game immediatement (as we say en Francais) and choose the optionals below.
I and others (who actually understand what they are doing) will be here to run through your questions. You can post lots of pictures - preferably of the game (but you can include Alison Brie, Jenna Coleman or Mary Elizabeth Winstead if you really must) and we can take it from there.
Sergeant! You better get the books out again and start to redo your studies on the convoy/production system. It works pretty well for me at the moment. You will never become part of the officer corps if you don't understand that one!
Carry on... [:D][:D]
Peter
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Joseignacio
- Posts: 2966
- Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 11:25 am
- Location: Madrid, Spain
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
ORIGINAL: Centuur
Sergeant! You better get the books out again and start to redo your studies on the convoy/production system. It works pretty well for me at the moment. You will never become part of the officer corps if you don't understand that one!
Carry on... [:D][:D]
I understand you mean it works very well in general terms, because if you say the conv/prod system now works very well, it must be on the new beta you are testing, haha
There are still many smaller glitches, like some days ago i had my CW unsupplied in Egypt but although I had a "basic supply path of anty length", it didn't restore my fleet in Alexandria.
It happened even worse to my opponent in the other game I am playing, where I am axis, and his CW units didnt get supply from Cairo even though there was a conv line to both India and SA.
And so on... I only report the most disturbing ones, it's too much work else.
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
Hi i play wif witp and wite. Learning japanese player took me 2 years and had to read many threads and watch vids. Wif is a dif game In my opinión Not as fun as wite. Takes same time to learn but with les effort. Otherwise once you handle witp is very similar ,In the games, there are Always minor Things to learn while wif there are always major surprises In the games for Booth sides things that rules Dont sort out complettely. There are rules interpretations much often Than witp
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juntoalmar
- Posts: 684
- Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:08 pm
- Location: Valencia
- Contact:
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
Production is a nightmare
So I guess it's not working properly yet. Which make me think, shouldn't the production be fixed before putting effort in the AIO?
I mean, it is something much simpler than the AI. To begin with, the AIO should do its production, doesn't it? So, you need to fix production AI to have a working AIO, anyway.
I feel you could fix a smaller problem, faster, and that will benefit all the players now (not only those playing against the AIO in the future).
Just an opinion.
(my humble blog about wargames, in spanish) http://cabezadepuente.blogspot.com.es/
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Joseignacio
- Posts: 2966
- Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 11:25 am
- Location: Madrid, Spain
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
ORIGINAL: juntoalmar
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
Production is a nightmare
So I guess it's not working properly yet. Which make me think, shouldn't the production be fixed before putting effort in the AIO?
I mean, it is something much simpler than the AI. To begin with, the AIO should do its production, doesn't it? So, you need to fix production AI to have a working AIO, anyway.
I feel you could fix a smaller problem, faster, and that will benefit all the players now (not only those playing against the AIO in the future).
Just an opinion.
I guess the focus is now in the AIO so that the game can be sold to many more possible customers. Things like something so simple as letting the player decide which sea he wants his resources to cross with a warning that it's not possible in case he doensn't have enough resources seem unimportant to program.
Even that, which may be a lot of work for the player when the subs disrupt your lines, is nothing compared to explaining what you want to do to a dumb AI that insists in doing it completely wrong no matter what you say.
I heard Steven wants this stupid convoy AI as a part of his game AI. This mentally handicapped AI won't help his game AI but hinder it, but anyway he could at least cancel it for those who are playinig Netplay and are not using AIO.
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
Man, I really want to dust this game off but it's nuts how little it's come in 10 years. Things that were promised 10 years ago aren't even in the game yet and there's still serious bugs. Yikes. Maybe in another ten I'll check back in.
Paradox Interactive Forum Refugee
RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along
Personally, I think you're being a bit unfair. This game has come a long way in 10-year. I would rate MWiF in it's current state as a good to very good game. I do wish a wider community contribution/development philosophy had been adopted from the start in which case I have no doubt that MWiF would now be considered an excellent game and accepted by the WiF community at large. Though I'm sadden that I believe this chance has long passed. But still, MWiF is a good to very good game in it's on right and I have and will continue to enjoy playing it hours on end.ORIGINAL: Bamilus
Man, I really want to dust this game off but it's nuts how little it's come in 10 years. Things that were promised 10 years ago aren't even in the game yet and there's still serious bugs. Yikes. Maybe in another ten I'll check back in.
Ronnie