Russian OOB accurate?

[paulderynck]

We played a great deal of Third Reich but once WiF appeared, those days were lost to antiquity.

[brian brian]

Third Reich was the first game that let you play the whole European WWII. It was fascinating and on par with the operational level Avalon Hill classics, but with a grand strategy element added on - you didn't have to replay the historical war. I doubt any Third Reich player stuck with the game after a single glimpse of World in Flames though. I sure didn't, and I played Third Reich at the tournament level.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I liked the old division level games of the Eastern Front from SPI, where each unit started out upside down with a U-movement points for the factors where 'U' was the combat factors and 'U' meant 'Untried' - you wouldn't know what you had until you tried them in combat.

Hopefully some day electronic versions of WiF can add a little more Fog of War that would be difficult with paper systems, particularly in Production and unit deployments behind the lines, etc.

Actually, the original Computer World in Flames, from which MWiF evolved, had a Fog of War feature. A FoW for MWiF was debated here years ago but Steve decided that the game mechanics provided enough variability and scope for subterfuge to make it an unnecessary complication.

Cheers, Neilster

[Courtenay]

If one wants accurate OBs, go with GRD's Europa series. Unfortunately Winston Hamilton died, and the series has gone into limbo. What is really annoying is that all the design work of Total War was finished long ago (I played playtest versions of it many, many years ago), but has not come out.

However, I do notice that there is a new (Feb 14, 2016) post to the HMSGRD website, so there is still hope.

[paulderynck]

Ahh yes, DNO - Unpronouncable.

Maybe not, I was thinking of Drang Nach Osten! - Unentschieden by GDW.

[Jagdtiger14]

Third Reich was the first game that let you play the whole European WWII. It was fascinating and on par with the operational level Avalon Hill classics, but with a grand strategy element added on - you didn't have to replay the historical war. I doubt any Third Reich player stuck with the game after a single glimpse of World in Flames though. I sure didn't, and I played Third Reich at the tournament level.

That's funny Brian, that is exactly my story as well. I played A3R at the Boardgaming Championships in 1995. I was late to WiF (2002) and never looked back. A3R/Rising Sun did have a few things WiF doesn't have that WiF could benefit from...but probably cant for copyright reasons.

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Third Reich was the first game that let you play the whole European WWII. It was fascinating and on par with the operational level Avalon Hill classics, but with a grand strategy element added on - you didn't have to replay the historical war. I doubt any Third Reich player stuck with the game after a single glimpse of World in Flames though. I sure didn't, and I played Third Reich at the tournament level.

I still remember the blurb! "This game brings you with Guderian in Russia, with Rommel in North Africa, with Eisenhower in Normandy...!" I was immediately sold [:D]

At the time it was considered a "monster" wargame. Seen today, it is a rather compact representation of the ETO, playable around a relatively modest table and not really too long to finish - for sure not months. I never played ATR or any other follow-up, but I have fond memories of the original.

Of course WiF "fired" it - but we should never forget our ancestors [:)]

[hazmaxed]

ORIGINAL: Perelandra67
And while it was tough have the Afrika Corps slugging it out on the road to Leningrad

Does anyone remember AH's The Russian Campaign? DAK was an optional unit in that game.

I also cut my teeth on 3rd Reich in the late 1970s, and graduated to WiF in the mid 1980s. I enjoyed both. I purchsed the AH versions of A3R/The Rising Sun when they were released, but was never able to play them.

Wasn't another version of A3R released by another company under a new name sometime within the last decade or so?

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Ahh yes, DNO - Unpronouncable.

Maybe not, I was thinking of Drang Nach Osten! - Unentschieden by GDW.

Paul I was just wondering did you progress beyond Europa 2 [&:]

[paulderynck]

I remember The Russian Campaign very well and played it a lot. Before the AH version we had the original JEDCO (?) version with the counters that were nice and chunky - they were about half again thicker than AH counters, seemed more durable, and were really nice to play with.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Ahh yes, DNO - Unpronouncable.

Maybe not, I was thinking of Drang Nach Osten! - Unentschieden by GDW.

Paul I was just wondering did you progress beyond Europa 2 [&:]

I may have gotten confused between Europa and and the GDW product I mentioned. I thought at one point it was also referred to as "Europa". Actually a little research today does show them to be the same thing, I think.

http://hmsgrd.com/wordpress/?page_id=2

"DNO" - Drang Nach Osten was a game a group of us played in the mid-70s. It was one of the first "monster games" that took up a large chunk of someone's rumpus room. The Soviet OOB was exceedingly detailed, as no doubt was the German one. It had a lot of chrome to do with armor and anti-tank effects as I recall calculations to do with figuring out if you had one-half or one fifth "ATEC", etc.

I was involved in one game from the start with six players and did some pinch-hitting in a second game when the Russian winter counter-offensive started. I don't think either game actually got finished.

And we never got the "Unentschieden" add-on nor played it.

[Extraneous]

Just so everyone is on the same page of the truly monster Europa series (division and brigade/regiment scale).

The history of the Europa series.

[Courtenay]

What annoys me is that the third edition of the Europa eastern front game exists -- I played play test versions of it years ago -- it just isn't coming out.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

What annoys me is that the third edition of the Europa eastern front game exists -- I played play test versions of it years ago -- it just isn't coming out.

warspite1

Have you read the long running list of excuses as to why? Embarrassing. Fortunately I got my money back as I paid on credit card, but its a very sad state of affairs and I guess the project will never be completed now....[:(]

[Courtenay]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

What annoys me is that the third edition of the Europa eastern front game exists -- I played play test versions of it years ago -- it just isn't coming out.

warspite1

Have you read the long running list of excuses as to why? Embarrassing. Fortunately I got my money back as I paid on credit card, but its a very sad state of affairs and I guess the project will never be completed now....[:(]

You know what is really embarrassing? I paid by credit card, and never realized that I could get my money back. I have no idea how I could, or could have done that.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

What annoys me is that the third edition of the Europa eastern front game exists -- I played play test versions of it years ago -- it just isn't coming out.

warspite1

Have you read the long running list of excuses as to why? Embarrassing. Fortunately I got my money back as I paid on credit card, but its a very sad state of affairs and I guess the project will never be completed now....[:(]

You know what is really embarrassing? I paid by credit card, and never realized that I could get my money back. I have no idea how I could, or could have done that.

[Neilster]

The Red Army's OOB is irrelevant. These untermensch will evaporate before the irresistible force of the Wehrmacht's mighty offensive. Why, we will only have to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come tumbling down. The Jewish-Bolshevik menace to Europe will be wiped from the face of the Earth and...

Oh, I'm not addressing my cronies during some endless mealtime monologue. Sorry [:'(]

Cheers, Neilster