What hardware and operating system do you expect to use to play MWIF?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Just have to say I'm really looking forward to this game... [:)]

Welcome. Post much to the Matrix forums?[;)]

[Terminus]

No. Where'd you get that idea?[;)]

[Taxman66]

I got a pretty basic machine.  Don't run FPS games so don't need anything fancy.
 
Dell Dimension 4700, P4 2.8GHz
1.5 GB RAM
Nvidia Geforce 7600GT
WinXP Media Center Edition, Service Pack 2
Verizon FIOS (love it)

[Anendrue]

ORIGINAL: 0331marine

Thank you for the warm welcome Steve. For now I am just looking around, trying to get an overview of what changes will be implemented from the board game to the computer version. Besides that I have a lot if ideas on WIF but they are more structural changes to the game mechanics and such so they are not really relevent here at this moment.

Only question I do have is in relationship with 64-bit OS and compatibility. As I hope this game will be around for a long time I hope you are considering this aspect, as in the near future more and more people will start using 64-bit systems due to the 4 GiB limit on RAM in a 32-bit OS.

S/F

This is excerpted from the Microsoft Knowledge base article 282423.

List of limitations in 64-Bit Windows

No Kernel-Mode 32-Bit Code
No Mixed 64-Bit/32-Bit Processes
• 64-bit programs cannot load and call 32-bit MDAC.
• 64-bit Microsoft Internet Explorer cannot load 32-bit ActiveX controls.
• The 64-bit shell cannot load 32-bit Inproc shell extensions.
• 32-bit installer programs cannot load and register 64-bit DLLs.

No 16-Bit Code

(note by abj9562: Essentially this means if any of the dll's delivered in the software have any buried 16 bit code in them the game may have serious issues on a 64 bit platform and probably will not run. Many development platforms overcame this by inserting 16 "0"'s) after each piece of 16 bit code to bring it into the next generation, however this has been a dubious fix at best.)

• No 16-bit code can run, except for recognized InstallShield and Acme installers (these are hard-coded in Wow64 to allow them to work).
• 16-bit Setup bootstraps are not supported.
• 16-bit MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows 3.x utilities will not start. If you attempt to start such a program, you receive a "Program.exe is not a valid Win32 application" error message.

No OS/2 or Posix Program Support
There is no support for OS/2 or Posix programs.
Back to the top

No Kernel-Mode 32-Bit Code
There is no support for Kernel-mode or 32-bit code such as: • 32-bit virus-detection or 32-bit file system filters.
• 32-bit video adapter or 32-bit network adapter drivers.
• 32-bit Kernel-mode printer drivers.

[Anendrue]

As a side note I believe when Steve started developing the game 64 bit OS was still in development. At this late stage this would be an unpleasant to impossible task to change all the code to a new development platform capable of fully supporting 64 bit OS's. However I'll leave it to Steve to confirm or deny that fact.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: abj9562

As a side note I believe when Steve started developing the game 64 bit OS was still in development. At this late stage this would be an unpleasant to impossible task to change all the code to a new development platform capable of fully supporting 64 bit OS's. However I'll leave it to Steve to confirm or deny that fact.

Let me say this about that:[&:].

I am using Delphi 2007 and generating a Windows-32 application. I am pretty sure that means it does not have embedded 16 bit code, and I am certain it does not directly support a 64 bit OS. Nor I have incorporated old libraries into the executable, so there shouldn't be any 16 bit references brought in through other DLLs.

But there is always the possibility that weirdnesses are being done out of my direct line-of-sight. Guys that write compilers and operating systems have been known to do such things in the past.

[Anendrue]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

But there is always the possibility that weirdnesses are being done out of my direct line-of-sight. Guys that write compilers and operating systems have been known to do such things in the past.

Wirdness is an understatement. However I have a lot of respect for people who can work quickly and efficently in decimal, binary, octal, and hex while chewing bubblegum, listening to music, and jotting down notes at the same time.

[Mziln]

[:D] The Yuki language in California and the Pamean languages in Mexico have octal systems because the speakers count using the spaces between their fingers rather than the fingers themselves.

[X(] In 1716 King Charles XII of Sweden asked Emanuel Swedenborg to elaborate a number system based on 64 instead of 10. Swedenborg however argued that for people with less intelligence than the king such a big base would be too difficult and instead proposed 8 as base. In 1718 Swedenborg wrote a manuscript, which has not been published: "En ny rekenkonst som om vexlas wid Thalet 8 i stelle then wanliga wid Thalet 10" ("A new arithmetic (or art of counting) which changes at the Number 8 instead of the usual at the Number 10"). The numbers 1-7 are there denoted by the consonants l, s, n, m, t, f, u (v) and zero by the vowel o. Thus 8 = "lo", 16 = "so", 24 = "no", 64 = "loo", 512 = "looo" etc. Numbers with consecutive consonants are pronounced with vowel sounds between in accordance with a special rule.

[8|] Octal is sometimes used in computing instead of hexadecimal, perhaps most often in modern times in conjunction with file permissions under Unix systems (see chmod). It has the advantage of not requiring any extra symbols as digits (the hexadecimal system is base-16 and therefore needs six additional symbols beyond 0–9). It is also used for digital displays.

[hakon]

If the game comes out anytime soon, I will be playing on a Duo2 (3GHz) based Vista 64bit system with 8 gigs of ram, and with one 30" 2560x1600 primary screen (for the map) and a 19" 1280x1024 secondary screen (for tables, rules, etc).
 
The reason I'm moving to 64bit system, is the possibility to take advantage of more than 3 gigs of ram (1 of the 4 theoretical maximum gigs is usually allocated for the vivdeo card, etc). I expect that in the next few years, a significant percentage of new PC's will be sold with 64 bit OS-es,
 
Cheers
Hakon

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I am going to purchase a notebook computer in the next couple of days and I am looking for advice. The last time I purchased a notebook was 8 years ago.

The notebook will serve two purposes:

A - To sit on my desk alongside of my main computer so I can test playing MWIF over the internet using a LAN between the two machines

B - To take on trips, principally my trip to Origins in June.

I do not expect to use the notebook for anything else, so I am looking for a rather stripped down system, as far as peripherals are concerned.

Specifications:

1 - I want it to run MWIF fast, so maximizing CPU speed is important.

2 - For the same reason I want at least 1 GB of main memory, probably 2 GB. More than that isn't necessary.

3 - Any reasonable sized disk will do; 80 GB would be fine.

4 - A large monitor would be nice, and I need at least 1024 by 768 resolution for MWIF.

5 - Weight and size doesn't particularly matter to me, since I do not go on that many trips. The notebook will spend most of its life playing second fiddle to my main machine.

6 - MWIF is designed for Windows XP though I would like it to run under Vista at least in XP Emulation mode.

7 - I'll add WordPerfect Office to the system for word processing.

8 - A standard mouse to suplement any touch pad.

Open Questions

a - How does the introduction of dual core processing affect the overall CPU speed. Do you simply multiply by 2?

b - What is the best way to set up the LAN? What software and hardware (e.g., cable) would be necessary?

c - Is using a standard mouse going to be possible? What would need to be purchased to do that?

d - Is it possible to buy Windows XP any more? Is using Vista Home Edition a reasonable choice? I suspect that is what most of the people who buy MWIF and run it on a newly purchased computer will be using.

[SemperAugustus]

Based on limited experience most laptops only USB or wireless mice, unless you intend to use a docking station you can't use P/S2. I am not sure if that counts as a normal mouse.

80 GB seems to be a bit on the low side: Vista plus service pack roll back files etc can easily consume 10 GB if not 20 GB, the paging file for the main memory can reach 2.5 times the memory, Office 2k7 or Virtual Studio are not small either. A 70% or 80% full hard disk is going have slowed read/writes which affects performance. Unless you are displined about keeping the hard disk very clean you can run into problems. Personally, I run VMWare server sometimes with XP images that requires a few GB as well, I'd go for at least 160 GB plus as much memory as the OS will support (4 GB minus video card memory, maybe 3.5 GB in the case of Vista).

Isn't an encrypted wireless lan connection better than one using cables? The point of a laptop is to cut down on cables and for it to be portable. If you are moving around the laptop with the cables, you can easily wear out the area around the cable connectors.

As for Vista version, I personally use Ultimate for the MUI feature, but Home Premium or Business are probably good enough. It depends on the kind of environment you intend to use it in. I'd go for business unless there is a good reason not to. That said it really depends on how flexible you want to be and how long you intend to use the laptop.

[Froonp]

Open Questions

a - How does the introduction of dual core processing affect the overall CPU speed. Do you simply multiply by 2?

I don't think so.
Each core is a CPU, and if the application was not designed to use 2 cores, it will only use 1 at a time. So a 2.4 GHz Dual Core is not exactly as a 4.8 GHz. But 4.8 GHz don't exist, and non dual core CPU stopped at 3.2 GHz. Moreover, I don't think you will have much the choice. Dual Core also produce least heat, so need less cooling, so generaly are more silent.

b - What is the best way to set up the LAN? What software and hardware (e.g., cable) would be necessary?

Software : Nothing, you have it all with Windows, either XP of Vista.

Hardware : The bare minimum would be a crossed RJ45 cable, that would link both your PCs, from one Network Card to the other. You'd then need to configure the TCP/IP protocol, but this is very easy.
But this bare minimum is nearly sure of not being enough for you, as you may have your main machine already connected through RJ45 straight cable to an Internet Router (for your Internet connexion).
In that case, you'd need to buy an Ethernet Switch (or a Hub, but preferably a switch) plus 2 straight RJ45 cables. Each cable would link one of your machines to the Switch (or hub) using your network card, and then your Internet Connexion would also be connected to your switch.
So, it mostly depends on how you are connected on the Internet now.

c - Is using a standard mouse going to be possible? What would need to be purchased to do that?

A mouse. I believe that most laptops provide both USB & PS/2 connexions for mouses.

d - Is it possible to buy Windows XP any more? Is using Vista Home Edition a reasonable choice? I suspect that is what most of the people who buy MWIF and run it on a newly purchased computer will be using.

Windows XP will soon be unavailable, and in a couple of years wont be supported anymore by Microsoft. So here you seem not to have the choice.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: SemperAugustus
80 GB seems to be a bit on the low side: Vista plus service pack roll back files etc can easily consume 10 GB if not 20 GB, the paging file for the main memory can reach 2.5 times the memory, Office 2k7 or Virtual Studio are not small either. A 70% or 80% full hard disk is going have slowed read/writes which affects performance. Unless you are displined about keeping the hard disk very clean you can run into problems. Personally, I run VMWare server sometimes with XP images that requires a few GB as well, I'd go for at least 160 GB plus as much memory as the OS will support (4 GB minus video card memory, maybe 3.5 GB in the case of Vista).

It maybe the low end, but I'm sure this is enough for what Steve says he want's to use it.
Hardrives larger than 80 GB exist for laptops, the average seems to be around 120 GB, but I think that 80 is enough for just playing MWiF.

Isn't an encrypted wireless lan connection better than one using cables? The point of a laptop is to cut down on cables and for it to be portable. If you are moving around the laptop with the cables, you can easily wear out the area around the cable connectors.

I prefer wired LAN because it is quicker. You can easily have 1 GB wired connexions (GB Switches and Network Cards are common now), and 100 MB are the norm. Wireless barely reach half that with the current norm.
Also, wireless is not that secure, depending on the skills of the person who set it up.
Also, wired LAN is harmless for health, and wifi has not proved that. There are suspicions of the contrary.

[SemperAugustus]

Wifi/wireless is usually not where the bottleneck is in a network if you are working over the internet. The only time you really notice a slow down inside a network when using wireless/wifi is file copying.

As for XP, currently it is planned to be killed June 30th, but it may change
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/24 ... er_demand/

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: SemperAugustus

Wifi/wireless is usually not where the bottleneck is in a network if you are working over the internet. The only time you really notice a slow down inside a network when using wireless/wifi is file copying.

As for XP, currently it is planned to be killed June 30th, but it may change
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/24 ... er_demand/

The advice from both of you is much appreciated.[&o]

The point of using a LAN is to avoid needing an Internet connection. If a direct connection can be made, that removes a lot of bother - the fewer players involved in the interchange of data the better, in my opinion. When traveling, a WiFi connection would be useful. Your comment about the fragility of the connections on a notebook brought back memories of problems we had had with earlier notebooks - thank's for the reminder.

As for disk space, I'm a simple guy. No videos or pictures, and only a couple of personally recorded barbershop tunes (for learning the music). I did try loading in a 90 minute video of one of our chorus' performances once and I was appalled at how much space it consumed. It also took hours to load it in.

[hakon]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


a - How does the introduction of dual core processing affect the overall CPU speed. Do you simply multiply by 2?

This is fully up to you, as programmer Dual core means that you can run 2 processes or threads concurrently, at full speed. If you make good use of threading, you get twice the speed. If you don't use any threading, the maxiumum benefit will be that you may offload some system processes and other tasks to the second core, while the main core runs the main game thread. In the last case, you will only get about 10% to 20% speed increase over a single core.

More and more software supports 2 or more core, though, since dual core is pretty much becoming the standard (with quad core or more taking over the high end).

b - What is the best way to set up the LAN? What software and hardware (e.g., cable) would be necessary?

The standard setup for a home network, is a broadband router, SMC have some good ones at :
http://www.smc.com/index.cfm?cid=1&even ... ode=EN_USA

(I dont have very good experience with 3com's low end routers).

Such a box contain:
- A router, with NAT support, which means that you get a local range of IP addresses that can't be seen from the outside. (Which is good for security). You can then expose only the ports that you specifically want to open, and delegate them to the computer that serves/answers the port, if you want to have a web server, ftp server etc. Connections made from the inside to the outside will be directed automatically.
- A built in firewall, which is a very nice first line of defense.
- A switch, usually with 4-8 lan ports, depending on your need.
- (usually) a wireless access point. This is highly recommended when you have a laptop, since it means that you can access your network from anywhere in the house, and there is less plugging/unplugging when you travel with your PC. Mine is set up to allow only the MAC address of my specific laptop, which means that it's quite hard to tap into for my neighbours. If you don't sit right next to the access point, the radiation exposure should be very limited, compared for instance to moderate use of a cell phone.

Some versions may also add more functionality, such as printer connectivity, etc, depending on your needs.

In addition to this, you only need 1 RJ45 cable per computer you want to connect,.

c - Is using a standard mouse going to be possible? What would need to be purchased to do that?

All new laptops will support any USB mouse.

d - Is it possible to buy Windows XP any more? Is using Vista Home Edition a reasonable choice? I suspect that is what most of the people who buy MWIF and run it on a newly purchased computer will be using.

Hmm. I would recommend Vista, and maybe Vista 64. If anything, then to avoid any compatibility issues. Of course, if you want to run a full developer environment on Vista 64, you probably want 4 gigs of ram.

A feature breakdown of for the vista versions is listed below:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/produc ... hoose.mspx

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Thanks.

I ordered a 17" notebook with 4 GB RAM, 2.4 GHz Intel Duo Processor, 3MB cache, 320 GB 7200 rpm hard drive (2 x 160 GB).

The screen is Active Matrix with 1920 by 1200 max. resolution and uses a NVIDIA 8800M card with 512 MB video memory.

Network is Intel 802.11a/b/g/Draft-N wireless and RealTek 10/100/1000 Ethernet. Also a V.92 56K modem.

The operating system is Windows Vista Home Premium (32-bit) SP1.

I ordered a Bluetooth compatable external mouse too, since I dislike touchpads.

It comes with 3 USB 2.0 and IEE 1394 Firewire Port.

I still need to pick up a CAT cable to connect the notebook with my main machine (using the Ethernet link).

I own a router which connects my wife's machine to mine, and hence to the Internet. I'll plug the CAT cable into one of the 3 open ports on the back of the router - it will be a direct/hard wired connection.

The system won't be delivered until May 22nd.[:(]

[Zorachus99]

I've performed an upgrade.

System:
AMD Phenom 9850BE Quad-Core @ 2600Mhz
4 GB DDR2 1066Mhz RAM
ATI 3870 512Mb Video Card

Display:
Samsung 1600x1200 4x3 LCD

OS:
Vista Ultimate x86

[Anendrue]

With the game so close to release I thought I would revive this thread from the freezer.
 
My current system has been upgraded to three monitors now. The left and right are 1680x1050 turned 90 degrees. The main monitor is a 28" at 1920x1200 for the map running on dual 640MB video cards, 5.1 surround sound, 2gigs ram, quad core cpu, and other goodies.
I understand the forms and windows can be dragged off the map window and be placed on any screen estate you have, is this still accurate?

[gridley]

A quick question of upload/download speeds for netplay.

I am unable to play Paradox games from home because of lag. I live in the country and have an outdoor wireless modem, it just isn't fast enough.

Because WiF is turn based, I'm hoping that lag won't be an issue and I can play from home. Is my assumption correct or will I have to play WiF from my office too, with it's faster speed?