Italy dow any when

[Chaylaton]

This thread is discussing other thread relating to German strategy. I've been thinking about DoW on Yugoslavia why attack them if you can take them over if Athens falls so here is my idea. With Germany's help you can ship enought resources to Italy so the may buy the following 1 anph 1 marine 1 air transport so with a base of operation for the airplaines needed, ie the islands next to Turkey don't know the exact names, Italy could do a cool combine attack on Athens with at least 3 units along with air support. Of course this takes some patience to wait towards an end of a turn so the CW can't react. So what do you all think... vets and such? I'm thinking about doing this in the next game I'm starting I just got done pulling chits for 8 nations[X(]

Chaylaton

ps could this strategy work on Gibraltor? So I could align Spain?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Chaylaton

This thread is discussing other thread relating to German strategy. I've been thinking about DoW on Yugoslavia why attack them if you can take them over if Athens falls so here is my idea. With Germany's help you can ship enought resources to Italy so the may buy the following 1 anph 1 marine 1 air transport so with a base of operation for the airplaines needed, ie the islands next to Turkey don't know the exact names, Italy could do a cool combine attack on Athens with at least 3 units along with air support. Of course this takes some patience to wait towards an end of a turn so the CW can't react. So what do you all think... vets and such? I'm thinking about doing this in the next game I'm starting I just got done pulling chits for 8 nations[X(]

I think that this is best carried over by 3-4 German units plus some Rumanian units who carve their way toward Greece through Bulgaria (DoWing Bulgaria & Hungary), and a couple of Italian ones who join in the fray when Greece is attacked, usually with a couple of German ones leaving for other theaters near the end of the campaign. Von Leeb is perfect for this task, and should have at least a MECH in his initial army to be able to Blitz any Hungarian unit that would try to fight in the clear.
I think that the timing for this operation can be either :
- simultaneous to Poland and before France (idealy with units reaching Athens when the French front is breached, so that a couple of Germans can rail back to Belgium to beef up the lengthening French frontline)
- just after France has fallen, and before launching Barbarossa.
I think the former is better, because it also means that you will align Rumania very soon, and hence prevent the Russian from demanding Bessarabia.

ps could this strategy work on Gibraltor? So I could align Spain?

I always have had wet dreams about achieving that, and with my German partner, have always built 1 IT AMPH and obtained 1 MAR from him (or built it myself) to try that gamble, but this has nearly no hope success if the CW is a serious player. This said, it was never done, because there never was a serious opening (feeble Gib garrison for example) in games I played.

[Froonp]

I forgot to add that the decision of Aligning Yugoslavia (as discussed here), and who will align it, over the option of simply DoWing it, is an important decision that must have been made before the game actually starts. This has important ramifications, often unsuspected.
For example,
- the German looses the Zagreb MTN (5-3) white print (free) city based volunteer by letting Italy align Yugoslavia. This is a valuable unit for the German.
- the German won't cooperate with the Italian aligned Yugoslavian army, so garrisoning places outside Yugolavia & Italy with this army will be very annoying.
- because of this non cooperation, the valuable Yugoslavian HQ will be of no use to the Germans, and of little use to the Italians, os it becomes less usefull.
- aligning Yugoslavia on Italy has huge paybacks at the end of the game, when Italy has a new home country to keep fighting for an extra year, with a disminished army plus the remnants of the Yugoslavian army yes, but this is still a good thing.
- the early alignement of Rumania makes the German loose the Rumanian HQ. They have to then add the Rumanian army to its force pool (which I usually do) and then built it, to have it.

[ptey]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Chaylaton

This thread is discussing other thread relating to German strategy. I've been thinking about DoW on Yugoslavia why attack them if you can take them over if Athens falls so here is my idea. With Germany's help you can ship enought resources to Italy so the may buy the following 1 anph 1 marine 1 air transport so with a base of operation for the airplaines needed, ie the islands next to Turkey don't know the exact names, Italy could do a cool combine attack on Athens with at least 3 units along with air support. Of course this takes some patience to wait towards an end of a turn so the CW can't react. So what do you all think... vets and such? I'm thinking about doing this in the next game I'm starting I just got done pulling chits for 8 nations[X(]

I think that this is best carried over by 3-4 German units plus some Rumanian units who carve their way toward Greece through Bulgaria (DoWing Bulgaria & Hungary), and a couple of Italian ones who join in the fray when Greece is attacked, usually with a couple of German ones leaving for other theaters near the end of the campaign. Von Leeb is perfect for this task, and should have at least a MECH in his initial army to be able to Blitz any Hungarian unit that would try to fight in the clear.
I think that the timing for this operation can be either :
- simultaneous to Poland and before France (idealy with units reaching Athens when the French front is breached, so that a couple of Germans can rail back to Belgium to beef up the lengthening French frontline)
- just after France has fallen, and before launching Barbarossa.
I think the former is better, because it also means that you will align Rumania very soon, and hence prevent the Russian from demanding Bessarabia.

ps could this strategy work on Gibraltor? So I could align Spain?

I always have had wet dreams about achieving that, and with my German partner, have always built 1 IT AMPH and obtained 1 MAR from him (or built it myself) to try that gamble, but this has nearly no hope success if the CW is a serious player. This said, it was never done, because there never was a serious opening (feeble Gib garrison for example) in games I played.

Maybe i misunderstand you Patrice, but if russia doesnt claim bess you only align rum if you have declared war on russia or yugo.
This means, that to perform the strategy you describe, you have to wait for russia to claim bess and then deny the claims by hungary and bulgaria (and declare war on atleast bul in the same impuls). With the goal of aligning yugo.
If you are deadset on aligning yugo and russia doesnt claim bess, you have to wait with aligning yugo till after the war with russia have started. It also means that you have to conquer greece from albania and with invasions, or wait with greece till after barb have started.

[Froonp]

Yes, I believe you're right.

[Incy]

I think it's being neglected here that you can align Bulgaria if you declare war on Greece.

A common scenario (in my experience) is:
1939:
-USSR claim Bessarabia
-Ge Allow Bu+Hu claims

just prior to (or even after) Barbarossa:
Ge and/or Italy DOW Greece, and align Bulgaria.
This typically happens early '41, when axis air can dominate east med/Italian coast, and the axis has had time to build and position any units it might need for the operation (PARA, for instance). PARA, ATR & stuka on thhe islands off the Turkish coast is a nice preparation.


btw, if I might add a question to the unresolved questions file:
-where in the DOW sequence does allow/deny Bu+Hu claims go (before or after DOWs and minor alignments)??
Is it possible to DOW greece in the impulse after Bessarabia claim, align Bulgaria, and then deny the Bu+Hu claims ?

Incy

[Ullern]

Incy forgot to mention the approach used on him during our last game:
Just start attacking Athens in the second impulse of Sept/oct, regardless of weather. Actually worse weather is better.[:o] Having both the first and the second impulse with rain, is completly splendid And I forgot to mention: the allied won iniative. So it was really possible for the turn to end right there.

What you need for the attack: two Italian corps in Albania and two more italians beeing able to be shiped in. That's enough as long as the CW isn't able to react imidiately. (Which is sort of why we attacked that late.)
After the third end of turn chanche with the dice roll not ending on a 80% chance _ Italy flipped into Athens after outmanouvering the Greek which foolishly had set up in the mountains where they could be flipped. Didn't think Italy would get four more impulses in Sept Oct. Shame on Incy. Shame on you. (tsk tsk.)

I didn't say it was likely. I just said it worked! [:D][:D][:D]

Nils