Focus Pacific Beta

Please post here for questions and discussion about scenario design, art and sound modding and the game editor for WITP Admiral's Edition.

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jakla1027
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by jakla1027 »

ORIGINAL: paradigmblue

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but have you thought of adding in the American B-19 long range bomber? It's range could be useful to allied players early in the war. But I think it would also be somewhat balanced out by its horrendously slow top speed. Just a thought, I would guess no more than 3-4 trained equipped squadrons at game start, with a low number of airframes in the replacement pool.

So what do you think?

Honestly, it sounds fun as long as production stays low. Do you know if there is art for it?

Yep,you can find art at this website. (at least I hope this art will work for your MOD)

http://www.alternatewars.com/Games/WITP_AE/WITP_AE.htm

Hope you could add her to the MOD
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HansBolter
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by HansBolter »

There's an item I have been meaning to mention.

Putting the emergency reinforcements on the map means they eat supply.

The Canadian additions are minimal and can be moved to the front to garrison vital bases so no real impact.

The US has a larger contingent, but the same terms as the Canadians applies.

Capetown holds its own on supply with the added troops there.

It's Aden that suffers. By the end of February '42 I had to start shipping supply to Aden form Abadan to keep up with the appetite.

And since Aden is a major hub for reinforcement arrival it puts a crimp on the ability to load supply with the troops as they ship out.

Consider adding supply to Aden to offset the large supply draw that has been added there.
Hans

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btd64
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by btd64 »

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

ORIGINAL: paradigmblue

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but have you thought of adding in the American B-19 long range bomber? It's range could be useful to allied players early in the war. But I think it would also be somewhat balanced out by its horrendously slow top speed. Just a thought, I would guess no more than 3-4 trained equipped squadrons at game start, with a low number of airframes in the replacement pool.

So what do you think?

Honestly, it sounds fun as long as production stays low. Do you know if there is art for it?

Yep,you can find art at this website. (at least I hope this art will work for your MOD)

http://www.alternatewars.com/Games/WITP_AE/WITP_AE.htm

Hope you could add her to the MOD

The art and stats are not in RHS. I just looked. But there is some stuff on line. Only one was built. first flight was in the middle of 1941. Altitude close to the B-29. Bombload was NICE. 37K. About 12 to 14 guns from .30 to a couple of cannons. 18 man crew. Large. If you do add it, Figure building started in September 41, I would have it become operational in June or July 42 with a max of 3-16 plane squadrons. Maybe 4 to 6 airframes per month after that and maybe fade it out at the end of 1942. It can upgrade to something else if the player wants. Even use one of the existing bomber groups. Art wise, I think I can find something for you if you need it....GP

Jak's link DOES have B-19 art. Just checked. In fact I have that mod on my computer already. Forgot it was there.....GP
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paradigmblue
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by paradigmblue »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

There's an item I have been meaning to mention.

Putting the emergency reinforcements on the map means they eat supply.

The Canadian additions are minimal and can be moved to the front to garrison vital bases so no real impact.

The US has a larger contingent, but the same terms as the Canadians applies.

Capetown holds its own on supply with the added troops there.

It's Aden that suffers. By the end of February '42 I had to start shipping supply to Aden form Abadan to keep up with the appetite.

And since Aden is a major hub for reinforcement arrival it puts a crimp on the ability to load supply with the troops as they ship out.

Consider adding supply to Aden to offset the large supply draw that has been added there.

You're absolutely right Hans. I'll up the daily supply at Aden to compensate.
paradigmblue
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by paradigmblue »

ORIGINAL: General Patton
ORIGINAL: jakla1027

ORIGINAL: paradigmblue




Honestly, it sounds fun as long as production stays low. Do you know if there is art for it?

Yep,you can find art at this website. (at least I hope this art will work for your MOD)

http://www.alternatewars.com/Games/WITP_AE/WITP_AE.htm

Hope you could add her to the MOD


Jak's link DOES have B-19 art. Just checked. In fact I have that mod on my computer already. Forgot it was there.....GP

Nice, this will be an easy addition.
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CaptBeefheart
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by CaptBeefheart »

I think at least one of the JuanG mods has B-19s. Anyway, I've definitely seen them.

Agreed on supply at Aden. It's chock full of restricted units.

Cheers,
CC
Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.
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drw61
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by drw61 »

Here is a screen shot of JuanG B19

It is from the Alternate WNT Scenarios thread (I used scen 46)
tm.asp?m=2179124

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

I think at least one of the JuanG mods has B-19s. Anyway, I've definitely seen them.

Agreed on supply at Aden. It's chock full of restricted units.

Cheers,
CC


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paradigmblue
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by paradigmblue »

Oh man, as someone that enjoys playing as the allies, that's almost too good. The reach on that thing is insane for 1942.

Low production plus that service rating could possibly help keep it in check, but it's still a beast.
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HansBolter
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by HansBolter »

How can something that big with that many bombs and guns have crew of 2?
Hans

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btd64
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by btd64 »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

How can something that big with that many bombs and guns have crew of 2?

It has a crew of 18. That number just needs to be updated....GP
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drw61
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by drw61 »

I believe that is a pilot number not an overall crew number. Even the B-29 in the game has a crew of 2.

ORIGINAL: General Patton
ORIGINAL: HansBolter

How can something that big with that many bombs and guns have crew of 2?

It has a crew of 18. That number just needs to be updated....GP
dwg
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by dwg »

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Been doing some research of my own. I found that the KNIL had ordered almost 700 Marmon-Herrington tanks, 200 M3 light tanks, some M3 scout cars, and about 100 P39s.

Plus 30 DB7s with interchangeable bomber/strafer noses and torpedo capability (due for delivery mid 1942 IIRC). And 204 37mm AT guns (Not the M3, a National Forge and Ordnance Company design of similar performance) and 2750 Chevrolet trucks. They were receiving the trucks as bare chassis and completing them at a local GM factory at Tandjong Priok, which they evacuated into the boonies near Djokjakarta. It kept on producing locally right through the campaign at the rate of 30 a day.

The original gun tank order in 1939 was for 45 2 Pdr armed Vickers Command Tanks from the British and Belgian factories, supplemented by 73 MG armed Vickers Carden Lloyd light tanks, but these never materialised (49 of the latter going into British service as the Vickers Dutchman), forcing KNIL to go to the US instead. The initial US order was for 200 of the near useless CTLS-4TAC/Y (US T14/16) (two variants as the turret only rotated about 270 degrees, so they were meant to operate in left and right handed pairs). An order for M2A4s was approved, but production then switched to M3s, so they went to MH for an alternative, which was to be the CTMS with a 37mm M2 AAC automatic gun with a 5 round clip, 194 were ordered but not delivered, ending up in US service as 'Dutch 3-man tanks' (the Dutch did get 31 of them for service in the Dutch West Indies). The third order was for 200 MTLS ('Dutch 4-man tanks') with a twin 37mm AAC turret, 125 were built but not delivered, with 19 going to the Dutch West Indies.
The M-H tank factory was having a hard time producing the tanks fast enough. A transport with a 20 plus ran aground and delayed the arrival. Some M3 light tanks almost made it before the KNIL surrendered. 50 M3s were diverted to the Dutch after the outbreak of the war, but again ended up in Australia.

They got the initial batch of 20 CTLS-4TAs, but 149 more ended up in Australia and served as the basis of the Australian armoured training units for about a year. 50 M3 light tanks were diverted to the Dutch after the outbreak of the war, but again ended up in Australia. 40 M3 scout cars did arrive in early 1941 (ie pre-war). 20 from the order of 73 Vickers Carden Lloyd light tanks were delivered. They also got 49 South African built Marmon-Herrington armoured cars (Zuid-Afrikaanse pantserautos) as compensation for the Vickers Command Tanks, arriving in Feb 1942 (despite the name this isn't an MH design, it's a South African hull on a MH cross-country chassis. Apparently at least 21 of the NF&O 37mms were delivered, with more (40+?) ending up in Australia while 40 of the 37mm AAC guns were delivered on pedestal mounts for use on naval patrol boats (there was a local building programme underway for small combatants). The Australian government agreed in Apr-41 to send 25 Vickers guns a month to the NEI, which would suggest around 200 delivered by the outbreak of hostilities.
The KNIL ground forces was suppose to be reorganized into mechanized BDEs with either Alvis or M3 scout cars. I am thinking 5 to 8 BDEs. A tank unit of around 90 AFVs was suppose to be created with M-H tanks.

To the best of my recall it was 5 mechanized brigades, each with a mixed CTLS/CTMS/MTLS tank battalion and infantry in Overvalwagens, not sure if this was in addition to the infantry divisions or cannibalizing them. The Overvalwagen forum (www.Overvalwagen.com) has a lot of information buried in it about the KNIL mechanization programme, but you need to dig into the articles about each vehicle type and down into the forum itself for some of the stuff.

dwg
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by dwg »

ORIGINAL: paradigmblue

Oh man, as someone that enjoys playing as the allies, that's almost too good. The reach on that thing is insane for 1942.

AKA the XBLR-2 - Bomber, Long Range. And there were three more designs in that class. They were respectively the Boeing Model 294/XB-15/XBLR-1 (1 built), Martin Model 165/B-16 (rejected), Douglas XBLR-2/XB-19 (1 ordered) and Sikorsky XBLR-3 (cancelled at mock-up stage). The Boeing and Martin designs came out of the 1934 Project A requirement for a bomber with 5000 mile range, the Douglas and Sikorsky the 1936 Project D, which asked for a bomber with 'the maximum feasible range', and while the Douglas was selected in 1936 it wasn't funded until 1938. The B-15 flew in October 1937 and the Air Corps ordered 2 Y1B-20s, which would have been service test models of the B-15. but then cancelled them. The XB-15 was assigned to 2nd Bomb Group, but was considered too slow compared to the B-17 and spent the war working as a transport. Douglas tried to get the XB-19 cancelled in 1938, and finally rolled it out in 1941, with first flight in June, it was subsequently used as a testbed for the V-3420 engine and as a cargo aircraft.

While the Douglas didn't fly until 1941, there was that two year delay in funding, which might have pulled first flight forward to 1939, with production following in 1940. Boeing had the B-17 programme to keep the B-15 as just a prototype, but Douglas didn't have a large bomber programme at that point and the B-19 was clearly more capable than its B-18 Bolo.

paradigmblue
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by paradigmblue »

ORIGINAL: dwg
ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Been doing some research of my own. I found that the KNIL had ordered almost 700 Marmon-Herrington tanks, 200 M3 light tanks, some M3 scout cars, and about 100 P39s.

Plus 30 DB7s with interchangeable bomber/strafer noses and torpedo capability (due for delivery mid 1942 IIRC). And 204 37mm AT guns (Not the M3, a National Forge and Ordnance Company design of similar performance) and 2750 Chevrolet trucks. They were receiving the trucks as bare chassis and completing them at a local GM factory at Tandjong Priok, which they evacuated into the boonies near Djokjakarta. It kept on producing locally right through the campaign at the rate of 30 a day.

The original gun tank order in 1939 was for 45 2 Pdr armed Vickers Command Tanks from the British and Belgian factories, supplemented by 73 MG armed Vickers Carden Lloyd light tanks, but these never materialised (49 of the latter going into British service as the Vickers Dutchman), forcing KNIL to go to the US instead. The initial US order was for 200 of the near useless CTLS-4TAC/Y (US T14/16) (two variants as the turret only rotated about 270 degrees, so they were meant to operate in left and right handed pairs). An order for M2A4s was approved, but production then switched to M3s, so they went to MH for an alternative, which was to be the CTMS with a 37mm M2 AAC automatic gun with a 5 round clip, 194 were ordered but not delivered, ending up in US service as 'Dutch 3-man tanks' (the Dutch did get 31 of them for service in the Dutch West Indies). The third order was for 200 MTLS ('Dutch 4-man tanks') with a twin 37mm AAC turret, 125 were built but not delivered, with 19 going to the Dutch West Indies.
The M-H tank factory was having a hard time producing the tanks fast enough. A transport with a 20 plus ran aground and delayed the arrival. Some M3 light tanks almost made it before the KNIL surrendered. 50 M3s were diverted to the Dutch after the outbreak of the war, but again ended up in Australia.

They got the initial batch of 20 CTLS-4TAs, but 149 more ended up in Australia and served as the basis of the Australian armoured training units for about a year. 50 M3 light tanks were diverted to the Dutch after the outbreak of the war, but again ended up in Australia. 40 M3 scout cars did arrive in early 1941 (ie pre-war). 20 from the order of 73 Vickers Carden Lloyd light tanks were delivered. They also got 49 South African built Marmon-Herrington armoured cars (Zuid-Afrikaanse pantserautos) as compensation for the Vickers Command Tanks, arriving in Feb 1942 (despite the name this isn't an MH design, it's a South African hull on a MH cross-country chassis. Apparently at least 21 of the NF&O 37mms were delivered, with more (40+?) ending up in Australia while 40 of the 37mm AAC guns were delivered on pedestal mounts for use on naval patrol boats (there was a local building programme underway for small combatants). The Australian government agreed in Apr-41 to send 25 Vickers guns a month to the NEI, which would suggest around 200 delivered by the outbreak of hostilities.
The KNIL ground forces was suppose to be reorganized into mechanized BDEs with either Alvis or M3 scout cars. I am thinking 5 to 8 BDEs. A tank unit of around 90 AFVs was suppose to be created with M-H tanks.

To the best of my recall it was 5 mechanized brigades, each with a mixed CTLS/CTMS/MTLS tank battalion and infantry in Overvalwagens, not sure if this was in addition to the infantry divisions or cannibalizing them. The Overvalwagen forum (www.Overvalwagen.com) has a lot of information buried in it about the KNIL mechanization programme, but you need to dig into the articles about each vehicle type and down into the forum itself for some of the stuff.


You seem incredibly knowledgeable about the KNIL. Would you be willing to put together a rough suggestion for reinforcement convoys with devices and dates, as well as a rough TOE and upgrade date for the mechanized brigades? I'd love to add these to the game. I may also include a DB7 variant that is Torpedo capable.

Specific suggestions for vehicle or armament factories in DEI hexes would be fantastic as well if you have the time!
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bomccarthy
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by bomccarthy »

ORIGINAL: dwg

ORIGINAL: paradigmblue

Oh man, as someone that enjoys playing as the allies, that's almost too good. The reach on that thing is insane for 1942.

AKA the XBLR-2 - Bomber, Long Range. And there were three more designs in that class. They were respectively the Boeing Model 294/XB-15/XBLR-1 (1 built), Martin Model 165/B-16 (rejected), Douglas XBLR-2/XB-19 (1 ordered) and Sikorsky XBLR-3 (cancelled at mock-up stage). The Boeing and Martin designs came out of the 1934 Project A requirement for a bomber with 5000 mile range, the Douglas and Sikorsky the 1936 Project D, which asked for a bomber with 'the maximum feasible range', and while the Douglas was selected in 1936 it wasn't funded until 1938. The B-15 flew in October 1937 and the Air Corps ordered 2 Y1B-20s, which would have been service test models of the B-15. but then cancelled them. The XB-15 was assigned to 2nd Bomb Group, but was considered too slow compared to the B-17 and spent the war working as a transport. Douglas tried to get the XB-19 cancelled in 1938, and finally rolled it out in 1941, with first flight in June, it was subsequently used as a testbed for the V-3420 engine and as a cargo aircraft.

While the Douglas didn't fly until 1941, there was that two year delay in funding, which might have pulled first flight forward to 1939, with production following in 1940. Boeing had the B-17 programme to keep the B-15 as just a prototype, but Douglas didn't have a large bomber programme at that point and the B-19 was clearly more capable than its B-18 Bolo.


I realize this is a mod, so I wasn't going to comment, but there was little chance the B-19 would have ever been produced. It was powered by an early version of the Wright R-3350 (same engine as used by the B-29 and B-32). The myriad development problems suffered during the R-3350 program delayed the B-29 to such an extent that all aircraft (prototypes) powered by the R-3350 were grounded in early 1943 and a Senate investigating committee was convened.

No other engine with the power required by the B-19 was available in the 1940-43 timeframe, and it was actually underpowered with the R-3350.

The R-3350 finally came into its own after the war, powering such aircraft as the AD Skyraider, DC-7, and Super Constellation. Even then, its oil consumption was such that the DC-7's range was limited by the capacity of its engine oil reservoirs, not its fuel tanks.

For a good, relatively concise history of this engine, see Graham White's Allied Aircraft Piston Engines of World War II (Society of Automotive Engineers, 1995).
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btd64
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by btd64 »

Para, From a supply point of view, I have some possible changes and a couple of unit fixes to be done before you put out a new update. Email me and we can discuss. I have tested these changes....GP
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paradigmblue
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by paradigmblue »

ORIGINAL: General Patton

Para, From a supply point of view, I have some possible changes and a couple of unit fixes to be done before you put out a new update. Email me and we can discuss. I have tested these changes....GP

Great, thank you Patton. I also have some bug fixes that I need to look at:

One of the Siberian bases on the Siberian peninsula isn't set up as a port, and it should be.
I need to look at the devices for the French destroyer guns, it looks like at least one has too much penetration
The CA Suffren has a turret layout that doesn't look right

I'm also still looking for a JFB that is willing to help volunteer to assist me in sorting out the upgrade paths for aircraft research and production.
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HansBolter
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by HansBolter »

Don't know if it is something you have fixed previously and doesn't show in my game started on the initial release, but the French FP carrying subs enter with no air squadrons and finding lone FPs to put on them is a chore.
Hans

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DOCUP
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by DOCUP »

Paradigmblue
This is what I have found.

Around 1936, when the Koninklijk Nederlandsch-Indisch Leger (KNIL; Royal Netherlands East-Indies Army) had started to modernise its Java-Army, it was planned to form five or six motorised, partly mechanised brigades each with one battalion of light and medium AFVs. Companies of 24 platoons of seven vehicles each were envisaged, which were to be manned by personnel from the Infantry. The Cavalry had to form one squadron of motorised Cavalry with one platoon of Armoured Cars and one platoon of Armoured Fighting Vehicles (tanks) for each brigade. This is copied from (http://www.marmon-herrington.webs.com/nl-mh.html)

1 Jan 1942 1 July 1942 1 Jan 1943
CTLS 165 234 234
CTMS 140 194 194
MTLS 0 100 200


Another good website http://www.overvalwagen.com/

The Mobile Column


Formed at the end of December 1941, the Mobile Column was the KNIL's only true armored formation. Throughout its entire brief existence, it functioned as a reserve unit for the KNIL units on Java. At full strength, the unit consisted of:

Staff Headquarters
- Command staff with 1 White Scout Car

Communications Platoon
- 1 radio with communications specialists and related vehicle(s)

Tank Company
- Headquarters Platoon - 3 Vickers Carden-Lloyd
- 1st Platoon - 7 x Marmon-Herrington
- 2nd Platoon - 7 x Vickers Carden-Lloyd
- 3rd Platoon - 7 Vickers Carden-Lloyd

Mechanized Infantry Company
- Company Staff
- 150 men (organized in 3 platoons)
- 16 "Braat" Overalwagens

Reconnaissance Platoon
- 3 x Marmon-Herrington armored cars

Supply Unit (Including Medical Elements)
Supply Unit (Including Medical Elements) - 49 trucks
- 20 jeeps
- 6 motorcycles with sidecars equipped to carry stretchers

Engineer Detachment
The KNIL high command had also hoped to add an engineer detachment to the Mobile Column at the last minute, but was unable to do so.

From http://www.oocities.org/dutcheastindies ... rmour.html

Another website. http://www.indonesia-dutchcolonialherit ... istory.pdf

I just found this. I will have to read it over. http://www.fireandfury.com/orbats/knil.pdf

Hope its useful to you.


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btd64
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RE: Focus Pacific Beta

Post by btd64 »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Don't know if it is something you have fixed previously and doesn't show in my game started on the initial release, but the French FP carrying subs enter with no air squadrons and finding lone FPs to put on them is a chore.

The French float plane for the subs is;

Besson MB.411

I haven't looked for the stats yet. But I did look in RHS and it is not in that mod....GP
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