Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice)

[ushakov]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
12/7/45

Congrats on the fastest game yet played - flipping all those turns must have kept you both very busy today!

[Bif1961]

Congrats on your new game.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
You don't have device pools to rebuild the Chinese army by mid-1942. They also take a couple of months to get to India. If Japan notices the bug-out they can pretty easily cut the RRs with tanks and paras. Ask Lokasenna how.

Every 300 AV Corps carries 600 AV potential from the start without any need for pools, just some lengthy R&R. That's one good step towards rebuilding.
And you would need to cut eastern Indian RRs and isolate the Ledo region to catch the Chinese, they do not need any other RRs to march to India. That means early invasion into Calcutta region. Risky if you are a day short and the first Corps marches into 4x Calcutta hex. Note that I assume only the nearest Chinese running away (up to Changsha-Ichang cluster), others would fight.
Bottomline - it is not "pretty easy" for Japan

[zuluhour]

I really think you would like Georges' very helpful APP for sorting Signet and record keeping...........

[MakeeLearn]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel



Last night, I gave some thought to how in the world I'd approach another AAR. Readers have seen the game start months 11 million times, so I don't think I'd simply present a straightforward re-hash of major things going on. But I haven't hit on a good alternative. Maybe I'll write in poetry form. I'm sure Forumites would find that scintillating, gripping, moving reading.

In Heroic Hexameter?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
You don't have device pools to rebuild the Chinese army by mid-1942. They also take a couple of months to get to India. If Japan notices the bug-out they can pretty easily cut the RRs with tanks and paras. Ask Lokasenna how.

Every 300 AV Corps carries 600 AV potential from the start without any need for pools, just some lengthy R&R. That's one good step towards rebuilding.
And you would need to cut eastern Indian RRs and isolate the Ledo region to catch the Chinese, they do not need any other RRs to march to India. That means early invasion into Calcutta region. Risky if you are a day short and the first Corps marches into 4x Calcutta hex. Note that I assume only the nearest Chinese running away (up to Changsha-Ichang cluster), others would fight.
Bottomline - it is not "pretty easy" for Japan

If you move the goalposts to "evacuate those Chinese LCUs close to the western border" then yeah, it's hard for Japan to stop them. Most of the Chinese army is not there, however. It's around Changsha, on the coast to the SE, around Sian and east of there, at Chungking, etc. Those evacuations need railroads. I successfully evacuated much of the Chinese force in my AARed game with One Eyed Jacks, and was utterly crushed trying to do the same thing by Lokasenna.

As for devices, yes, if you get the unit to India in pristine form the disabled devices can be healed. Not really by mid-1942 in my experience (I have some in major supply centers in India in February 1943 that are not all healed), but over time they get better. If they were in combat, however, they need to access the 350 squads per month Chinese pools, and they don't serve to heal a battered LCU list in 1942, or even much of 1943.

[Canoerebel]

What I've seen of massed withdrawals of the Chinese to India leads me to believe that the Moose is right. Against a capable and experienced opponent, I don't think it works.

[obvert]

Good to see you found a game Dan. I'll look forward to seeing how th planning in this one goes.

One thing I'd advocate is a strong early challenge in the DEI. Especially if your opponent spends a lot of resources (and keeps the KB) in the Pacific. A lot of the cruisers and the CVs can get to the Dei quickly.

The danger in Scen 2 is the follow on from the DEI before the amphibious bonus runs out. Japan gets more planes, deeper pools, and a few more troops, so can steamroll quickly without a few surprises coming their way.

Good luck!

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I am no expert in the Stock #1 vs. #2 differences, but I've played them both in PBEM. I believe Japan gets a LOT of breathing room on economic resources in #2, especially in starting petroleum. Thus taking the major oil centers can wait longer in #2. And that has ramifications on where those "released" LCUs can venture.

No withdrawals is a very big boon for the Allies, especially in the area of the RN surface navy. It's rare to see a PBEM with this setting.

After several experiences I personally have altered my previous 100% opposition to HRs, and think it's probably necessary to have the PPs-to-cross one in place. Not so much for what the Allies can move out of India, but rather to hold back the massive (and I mean massive) numbers of IJA LCUs that can move out of Manchuria without triggering the Soviets. Mostly arty, but not only that. With those dozens of LCUs China is toast in the hands of a good Japan player, and there isn't enough in China, Burma, or India for two years to do much about it. Once China is disposed of you're going to have those dozens of sky-high EXP LCUs in Burma, in jungle, and that's that for that theater.

I would have to check: Sapporo, from memory, has a very different industrial base in the two. In #2 I think it's got a lot of vital aircraft industry that is elsewhere in #1. You should check that for long-term planning reasons.

I don't think the resources differences are that heavy.

RE: China - it's a choice between bad options, but if those units don't see combat in China then they won't have sky-high XP.

Sapporo has additional factories, yes. So does Harbin (IIRC). There are some other additional engine/aircraft factories scattered around the islands as well.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Since this is Stock 2, I don't think the upgraded AA applies. Actually, I'm not sure about that - are the AA upgrades via patch rather than mod? If so, I guess it does apply. I much prefer the realistic AA.

There are no stacking limits. I much prefer stacking limits, but can tolerate the game wihtout them (my game with Obvert doesn't have them, either).

You can get the Andy-updated scenario files. I highly recommend doing so, especially as the Allies. Basically everything in it is a benefit to the Allies, and on balance it is a huge boon. IJN shipboard flak does also improve, but not as much as the Allied flak and there are also the super-E changes.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You don't have device pools to rebuild the Chinese army by mid-1942. They also take a couple of months to get to India. If Japan notices the bug-out they can pretty easily cut the RRs with tanks and paras. Ask Lokasenna how.

Having tried to do it a second time... I don't know that I would classify this as easy, at least on the planning side. If you can get all of the pieces in place, then the execution is relatively easy. But it does require good timing, and at the start it's a race to get sufficient paratroops in place (and tanks breaking through in the right areas) vs. how fast can the Chinese move sufficient troops to kill 2 days' worth of paratroopers (1st day that shocks the Chinese in para-attack, 2nd day if the drop continues).

I will say that, even in scenario 2, in order to take China in any reasonable amount of time, that it does require devoting significant LCUs that don't come from Manchuria. I can't imagine doing it without the Guards Tank or the additional Guards Divisions that spawn in Indochina, for example. That has huge opportunity costs - the Guards Tank alone arrives in May 1942 and could be heading for India, Australia, Alaska, Ceylon, etc...

Edit - further, if all replacements are turned off for Chinese units except for those units that reach Western China and then India, you will have plenty of rifle squads. And obviously, you also have plenty of Support as that pool is global.

[pontiouspilot]

I will be watching and reading with great interest...as with your other AAR. Thank you for the time and effort invested in these AARs; I know many appreciate it.

Cheers

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I don't think the resources differences are that heavy.

I remembered a big deal being made of the petroleum when the game was new, so I went and looked.

12/8/41 in both cases.

Scenario 1 Oil: 3,223,861
Scenario 2 Oil: 4,823,621

Scenario 1 Fuel: 4,484,971
Scenario 2 Fuel: 6,525,272

Japan players will have to say how much of a breathing space those #2 numbers provide, but they look pretty different to me.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I really think you would like Georges' very helpful APP for sorting Signet and record keeping...........

Is George Witpqs? Are you talking about InfoMonkey? (P.S. - I'm not sure what an APP is, but I think it's handheld device slang for a computer program, no?)

Thanks for the tip, Zulu. If I feel bold, intrepid, and lucky, I'll take another look at InfoMonkey.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Good to see you found a game Dan. I'll look forward to seeing how th planning in this one goes.

One thing I'd advocate is a strong early challenge in the DEI. Especially if your opponent spends a lot of resources (and keeps the KB) in the Pacific. A lot of the cruisers and the CVs can get to the Dei quickly.

The danger in Scen 2 is the follow on from the DEI before the amphibious bonus runs out. Japan gets more planes, deeper pools, and a few more troops, so can steamroll quickly without a few surprises coming their way.

Good luck!

Thanks, Erik. If you're reading, that's good news for me.

I already miss 1945!

The DEI does seem like the best theater in which to engage Japan.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: ushakov

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
12/7/45

Congrats on the fastest game yet played - flipping all those turns must have kept you both very busy today!

A case of wishful thinking. 1945 sure is fun for the Allies. Busy, challenging and the ultimate clickfest, but a lot of fun.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I really think you would like Georges' very helpful APP for sorting Signet and record keeping...........

Is George Witpqs? Are you talking about InfoMonkey? (P.S. - I'm not sure what an APP is, but I think it's handheld device slang for a computer program, no?)

Thanks for the tip, Zulu. If I feel bold, intrepid, and lucky, I'll take another look at InfoMonkey.

Close- it's IntelMonkey. And witpqs' first name is George. So if you're quoting him, just say "By George ..." at the start of your quote. [8|]

[Canoerebel]

12/8/41

South China Sea: The Japanese are overwhelming (mostly) at the start of the war, but in some ways it's difficult for the IJ player. His massive opening OOB is spread out and has a lot of ground to cover...ground that includes embedded Allied combat ships and aircraft. So the Allied player gets a few weeks to have a lot of fun before the curtain (usually) comes down for months or years or forever.

On the second day of the war, three Allied combat TFs sorites - the Hong Kong DDs toward Formosa, a small RN TF from Singers towards Singkawang, and the four old USN DDs from Manila to Brunei. These runs were at full speed and met with varying degress of misfortune and success.

The four Manila-based DDs were the stars of the show:

[Canoerebel]

So, as of the opening days of the war, USS Arizona is the largest ship sunk...but Japanese vessels are the second (the AV) and third (a PB) largest sunk.

[Canoerebel]

12/1/41

South CHina Sea: The Hong Kong RN DDs ran into mines at Takao, with two of the DDs suffering one hit each. The third, Thracian, managed to put a scare into a transport TF near Laog, Philippines.