Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side

[Hortlund]

Well, the thing is, if you say Sumatra was your red line, then that line should have covered Boela aswell. Why didnt you fight him there? I can understand not wanting to lose your ships, but the downside of not losing those ships is you lost the game instead. Despite defeating a huge army at Sumatra.

As for using the entire allied CV fleet as fighter cover for his invasion forces, well, thats just a sound strategy in my opinion. The interesting aspect of that is how do the jap player handle it.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

That battle was in Sumatra when Dan invaded it in 1943. The Campaign was a resounding success with the destruction of several hundred Allied ships, an immense number of airframes, and the destruction of nearly 150,000 troops. It was a magnificent VICTORY!

The impact from that victory was the gutting of the Japanese 'small boys' in the Fleet. I lost soooooooooo many DDs and CLs that the Fleet has never recovered.

Twice I planned to go 'all in' after that but was caught out of position both times. That was my mistake.

We're going to be hitting the 'campaign lessons' phase of the AAR sometime soon and one of the big ones for me is being able to pull the final trigger for the 'fight to the death.' I was reticent for waaaaaay too long to lose the Fleet. I LOVE my CVs and BIG Boys. Had a devil of a time wrapping my mind around sending them to their doom. Won't happen next campaign. Course I do have to say that my personal opinions around my noble opponent's strategy of using the ENTIRE Allied CV Fleet as nothing but Fighter cover for 1,000,000+ AK-AP-APA--etc..., therefore, making it unassailable is a hugely contributing factor to that choice.

A good assessment. I think there is a window of opportunity for the Japanese fleet to fight it out with the Allies in the hopes of defeating a major operation. You might say Sumatra is that example but then again despite the gain, his Sumatra campaign put you off balance for the rest of the game. I told him that it was like a brilliant queen sacrifice in chess. (That at least got Dan feeling better about losing a bundle of troops..[;)]) One could also say that Allied divisions that can be rebuilt (mostly) are well worth trading for the loss of so many IJN light warships early on. One of my key strategic aims is to sink Japanese DDs from day one. But I think the Japanese player has to really give up fleet preservation notions because the fleet becomes more and more redundant as the death star accumulates. To play an effective game the Japanese player has to be willing to lose ships in 1944. That is the trade off for time and space. Credit to Dan is that I think his big stick-death star tactic has got Allied Fan Boys rethinking their own strategy in the future. However, is is a fair tactic to use? I don't know but there is sure be some discussion. Dan is good at tactics but not the best. However, he may be the best Allied player out there when in come to grand strategy.

[HansBolter]

It's just as fair a tactic for the Americans in '44 & '45 as it is for Japan in '42 & '43.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Hortlund

Well, the thing is, if you say Sumatra was your red line, then that line should have covered Boela aswell. Why didnt you fight him there? I can understand not wanting to lose your ships, but the downside of not losing those ships is you lost the game instead. Despite defeating a huge army at Sumatra.

As for using the entire allied CV fleet as fighter cover for his invasion forces, well, thats just a sound strategy in my opinion. The interesting aspect of that is how do the jap player handle it.

My CVs were upgrading in the Home Islands at the time if memory serves...

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

It's just as fair a tactic for the Americans in '44 & '45 as it is for Japan in '42 & '43.

Not a tactic that I have used here. Think it is borderline gamey.

[BillBrown]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

It's just as fair a tactic for the Americans in '44 & '45 as it is for Japan in '42 & '43.

Not a tactic that I have used here. Think it is borderline gamey.

I do believe that this was a tactic that was used by the USN. They put 36 F6Fs and 36 F4Us on their CVs.

[Bif1961]

We have gone down this road before but since this is a game, you don't fire yourself as the commander, having lost hundreds of ships and 150,000 men in Sumatra adventure any commander would have been relieved after that debacle. I know we often refer to civil war events and there would be many to allude to here, like Fredericksburg or Chancelorsville, after both the Union commander was cashiered with cause.

[Bearcat2]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

It's just as fair a tactic for the Americans in '44 & '45 as it is for Japan in '42 & '43.

Not a tactic that I have used here. Think it is borderline gamey.

Looks like you will have to think up a counter as you are likely to face this tactic again. The Big Blue fleet isn't going away.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

It's just as fair a tactic for the Americans in '44 & '45 as it is for Japan in '42 & '43.

Not a tactic that I have used here. Think it is borderline gamey.

So you didn't keep the KB concentrated in '42 and '43? Isn't that simply considered good play, to keep your carriers concentrated instead of using them in penny packets so they can be defeated in detail?

What I don't grasp is why that would be considered sound gaming tactics for one side and gamey for another.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

We have gone down this road before but since this is a game, you don't fire yourself as the commander, having lost hundreds of ships and 150,000 men in Sumatra adventure any commander would have been relieved after that debacle. I know we often refer to civil war events and there would be many to allude to here, like Fredericksburg or Chancelorsville, after both the Union commander was cashiered with cause.

And the Japanese commander would have been sacked for refusing to commit the navy to stop the Allies from surrounding Japan.

It is pointless and disrespectful to keep denigrating players for the mistakes they make.

Please stop this.

[zuluhour]

Yeah! Some of us have feelings. I don't think Bif made a personal attack though. Side note, I would be honored
to play with John. I truly enjoy his perspective in regards to the IJN. I also have high regard for all JFBs
who play with continued enthusiasm "against the odds". In the beginning of "kaigun" right now, it is a fascinating
read. There is no question in my mind. Many, many variable outcomes regarding the IJN composition at the outbreak
of the Pacific war were possible due to the incredible dedication of Japans fledging naval officers. I look forward
to getting deeper into the volume to see how adaptable the IJN was or was not to the debacle at Midway. As I view
Midway as an intelligence coup of the highest magnitude, I wonder if any flag rank or other IJN officers even grasped
the degree they had been compromised. What possible outcomes would have emerged with a successful IJN operation at Midway?
How much time would it have bought? etc..

[John 3rd]

Thanks Zulu! Playing you would be a BLAST!

You will love Kaigun. Great Book. It became an essential element of my Master Thesis when it first came out. I assume you have read Shattered Sword and The First Team books?

[John 3rd]

March 22, 1945

Talk about a TIGER by the Tail and a weeeee bit of overkill! [X(]

[John 3rd]

March 22, 1945
Korea: The Fusan Perimeter

The Japanese Offensive in Korea stops with moderate gains and very few losses. The 8,000,000+ escorted Allied convoy arrives in the Theatre with TFs going into Shanghai and BUNCH coming to Genzan. Engineers have been digging all along the Fusan Line preparing the the inevitable Allied Offensive to capture all of Southern Korea. The troops will hold as long as possible and then be evacuated by sea back to the Home Islands. We'll use the Railroad on the eastern edge of the peninsula for as long as possible.

You can see my secondary Post of Kanko, North Korea. Troops and supplies for China have been pouring through there.

[John 3rd]

March 22, 1945
China Offensive

In China, the Japanese Offensive is gaining steam. We have a shallow as well as deep envelopment occurring:

RED: Suchow is the deeper target. Troops are about to take abandoned Kweitah and then advance onto Suchow. Total force here is currently 4 ID and 3 Brigades. As you can see, troops nearly surround the goal of this Offensive. There appear to be 2-3 beaten up Chinese Corps and 7-9 Support units in this area.

PINK: The shallow Tsinan Offensive carries more weight (8 ID, 1 Tank Div, 3 Brigades, and 4 Tank Regiments) and is working to surround the base and then ALL go in in an attempt to take the base and force a major surrender. Enemy has the 9th Aussie ID, a Chinese Corps, and a BUNCH of Artillery.

DARK RED: Allied moves going on. In the north, several beaten-up Chinese units are moving to cut the railroad. Two Japanese ID are moving to block that.

Tsingtao just fell to a group of 5 beaten-up/mauled Allied Infantry Divisions. That Tsingtao held for nearly two weeks against these dilapidated units speaks volumes for the condition of the Allied front-line units. The time holding has allowed the CHANCE to go after Tsinan.

YELLOW: These are groups of Japanese LCUs that have continued to occupy HUGE numbers of Allied units as they reduce and destroy the Japanese. This has been, as stated numerous times previously, by design. Keeping as many enemy units tied up for as long as possible has been fantastic.

[zuluhour]

Shattered Sword, yes. The First team at Guadalcanal, yes. I got an X-mas present of "Dead Wake" which I intend to read next.
then I shall search out another Pacific read. BAnzai! sir

[John 3rd]

Here is the current overview of the state-of-the-state. Not very good BUT it is nearly April 1945...

[John 3rd]

Last Post.

Here is the Fuel TFs moving past Balikpapan. Escort is 3 CV, 2 CVL, 1 BC, 4 CA, 2 CL, and 16 DD. As normal it shall take four days to make it to the open sea.

[jwolf]

Minor complaint: the narration for PINK and RED are switched in post 5915. Good luck as you fight on with the Empire in its last (??) days.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Minor complaint: the narration for PINK and RED are switched in post 5915. Good luck as you fight on with the Empire in its last (??) days.

Thanks. Fixed!