New Mod of Scn 2 a kind of 1.5 - more balanced

[Cavalry Corp]

OK Gents and Ladies...

Put this here just for now to attract views but it can go to the mod page

I am looking for some ideas for a slightly revised mod for scn 2

I am looking at these main issues-

I would like to add a couple 2 or 3 more allied capital ships to the British fleet at the start - I am thinking of the Hood ( because I like it , I know it was sunk before but this is scn 2) but open to other ideas ( maybe some more Dutch or French DD or similar ships or maybe a French BB) . If you have the correct stats and art I will need that. This will make the Japs more cautious in the DEI at the start.

Add more garrison requirements to both sides. But mainly in China. This will slow China down.

Allow all Mogami class to convert to scout cruisers

Should I add anymore Jap ships that could be built only at the expense of others? Shall we add a few more proposed US ships or additional ships of the same class?

Any other ideas?
I do not want to change too much but want a kind of SCN 1.5 feel.
I have done lots of mods for PZC HPS which have been well received. If anyone wants to make it a joint effort I am happy with that as well.

Cav

[n01487477]

Well if Scen 1 is more historical OOB and scenario 2 is more powerful, then this sounds close to 2.5 than 1.5 ...

[edit] Sorry - shouldn't step on your toes without saying that a 1.5 idea is a good one; just think you need to look at the differences between 1 and 2 and make some changes to make that comparison otherwise you're going into fairy mod land... (somewhere I love to be ... (cough cough )well not with fairies ... but you guys get my point)

[Panther Bait]

A modest increase in late war Allied aircraft replacements is probably reasonable.  Perhaps make some of the better US fighters show up a little earlier and stay in production longer.
 
Mike
 

[crsutton]

Adding ships to either side will have very little impact. Extra garrison requirements might be a factor but then you have to make sure it is right or you can throw the whole thing off.

To go from 2. to 1.5 you will need to address much more and you are talking about a very large project.

However, in my mind there are really two main things to focus on. One is a limitation to the Japanese ability to advance R&D ( some players have gotten very good at this) of both ships and aircraft. Just slow it down a little. The other is to limit the ability of the Japanese side to focus on the "best" aircraft only. They should be able to make more and adjust production but not have complete control.

You do this and I think you really would have a great game without having to change anything else.

However, if you do this then you really have to evaluate victory conditions so as to make sure that the Japanese player has an equal chance to win the game. As it is, I still think the Allies should win most scen#2 campaigns, so you must be careful here.

That is pretty much it. Get ahold of the insane air war and then balance the VP. Sounds easy, but it is not. You really need to work with a team to pull this off.

[ny59giants]

You might consider adding Allied airframes to the "CD Convoys" that show up Cape Town at the beginning of almost every month. How much and how offend should be up for debate.

[Canoerebel]

My suggestions:
 
1)  Add 5,000 RAF fighters to the pools
2)  Add 4,000 USAAF aircraft to the pools
3)  Add 1,000 USN SBds to the pools
4)  Don't accept any modding suggestions from John III.  He'll come up with the "Sixteenth Circle" in which Japan plans ahead and bulids out sixteen USS Normandy-class guided missile cruisers.
 
P.S.  I'm jesting about the pools.  I have no idea how many aircraft I would actually add, but that's the one area that the Allies really need help. Everywhere else, to me, Scenario Two is fine.

[HansBolter]

I would also suggest finding a way to tone down or restrict the overpowered late war Japanese E class ASW assets.

I have yet to see a single Japanese player offer to compensate for this design flaw by allowing the Allied player to have working torpedos. Since it seems most Japanese players would never agree to working US torpedos something needs to be done to reign in the E class.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

My suggestions:

1)  Add 5,000 RAF fighters to the pools
2)  Add 4,000 USAAF aircraft to the pools
3)  Add 1,000 USN SBds to the pools
4)  Don't accept any modding suggestions from John III.  He'll come up with the "Sixteenth Circle" in which Japan plans ahead and bulids out sixteen USS Normandy-class guided missile cruisers.

P.S.  I'm jesting about the pools.  I have no idea how many aircraft I would actually add, but that's the one area that the Allies really need help. Everywhere else, to me, Scenario Two is fine.

THANKS Dannyboy!

I don't like Scen 2 since it is WAAAAAY beyond could be/should be of Japan. We tried to put Reluctant Admiral right in the middle of the Grand Canpaign and Scen 2. It has an Enhanced--but historically feasible--Kaigun, some IJN LCU improvements, some aircraft changes, but little-to-no changes to the IJA. The Allies get some changes as well including more CVLs, additional CVE conversions, larger starting plane pools, and Navy/Army Training Squadrons to allow for on-map pilot training.

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

One is a limitation to the Japanese ability to advance R&D ( some players have gotten very good at this) of both ships and aircraft. Just slow it down a little. The other is to limit the ability of the Japanese side to focus on the "best" aircraft only.

That's already in game, just play PDU off and Japan have to produce more or less every model. Japan can still get some of the planes earlier, but there's only limited number of squadrons that can use them.


My suggestion would be withdraw dates. If Japan is too strong in late war, just set withdraw dates to some of the extra LCUs and squadrons they get.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

ORIGINAL: crsutton

One is a limitation to the Japanese ability to advance R&D ( some players have gotten very good at this) of both ships and aircraft. Just slow it down a little. The other is to limit the ability of the Japanese side to focus on the "best" aircraft only.

That's already in game, just play PDU off and Japan have to produce more or less every model. Japan can still get some of the planes earlier, but there's only limited number of squadrons that can use them.


My suggestion would be withdraw dates. If Japan is too strong in late war, just set withdraw dates to some of the extra LCUs and squadrons they get.

I know but very few Japanese players are willing to make this sacrifice. It pretty much gives the game to the Allies. I don't mind Japan getting a boost in numbers and some control over production. Just a bit more sanity than you see in scen #2.

[vettim89]

I guess my beef with Scen 2 is that it compensates on the wrong end of the game. By that I mean that Japan does not need more stuff at the beginning of the war to accomplish the Centrifugal Offensive. By frontloading the game with extra Infantry Divisions and aircraft, Japan is capable of truly running rampant for a year or more. A more balanced scenario, in my mind, would be to enhance the mid/late war part of the game. That is about impossible to do within the current confines. Perhaps some one with better knowledge of the editor could come up with something.

[Cavalry Corp]

Thanks for all the interesting comments

I agree PDU OFF is a pretty good idea - i would have been happy with that in my current scn2

[Cavalry Corp]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

My suggestions:

1)  Add 5,000 RAF fighters to the pools
2)  Add 4,000 USAAF aircraft to the pools
3)  Add 1,000 USN SBds to the pools
4)  Don't accept any modding suggestions from John III.  He'll come up with the "Sixteenth Circle" in which Japan plans ahead and bulids out sixteen USS Normandy-class guided missile cruisers.

P.S.  I'm jesting about the pools.  I have no idea how many aircraft I would actually add, but that's the one area that the Allies really need help. Everywhere else, to me, Scenario Two is fine.

THANKS Dannyboy!

I don't like Scen 2 since it is WAAAAAY beyond could be/should be of Japan. We tried to put Reluctant Admiral right in the middle of the Grand Canpaign and Scen 2. It has an Enhanced--but historically feasible--Kaigun, some IJN LCU improvements, some aircraft changes, but little-to-no changes to the IJA. The Allies get some changes as well including more CVLs, additional CVE conversions, larger starting plane pools, and Navy/Army Training Squadrons to allow for on-map pilot training.

John,

Can your mod be loaded and still load the stock stuff?

I am very nervous to change files with two long standing games in progress.

cav

[vettim89]

You can always make a separate install for RA

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I would also suggest finding a way to tone down or restrict the overpowered late war Japanese E class ASW assets.

I have yet to see a single Japanese player offer to compensate for this design flaw by allowing the Allied player to have working torpedos. Since it seems most Japanese players would never agree to working US torpedos something needs to be done to reign in the E class.

For once Hans, you and I are in TOTAL agreement. [:)]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I would also suggest finding a way to tone down or restrict the overpowered late war Japanese E class ASW assets.

I have yet to see a single Japanese player offer to compensate for this design flaw by allowing the Allied player to have working torpedos. Since it seems most Japanese players would never agree to working US torpedos something needs to be done to reign in the E class.

For once Hans, you and I are in TOTAL agreement. [:)]

Fix is already been done, so not sure what you are talking about.

Refer to Da Babe's. I've included the fix in my mod. Not sure it will ever reach the official scenarios as there is no indication that another data patch will happen. But, since this proposal is another user mod, could easily be incorporated as it is in John's RA mod.

So, contrary to your allegations, not only has the fix been made, but it is already in place with user mods.

BTW: Thanks to John and the rest of the Da Babe's team for working out a solution for the issue and the implementation.

[vettim89]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I would also suggest finding a way to tone down or restrict the overpowered late war Japanese E class ASW assets.

I have yet to see a single Japanese player offer to compensate for this design flaw by allowing the Allied player to have working torpedos. Since it seems most Japanese players would never agree to working US torpedos something needs to be done to reign in the E class.

For once Hans, you and I are in TOTAL agreement. [:)]

Fix is already been done, so not sure what you are talking about.

Refer to Da Babe's. I've included the fix in my mod. Not sure it will ever reach the official scenarios as there is no indication that another data patch will happen. But, since this proposal is another user mod, could easily be incorporated as it is in John's RA mod.

So, contrary to your allegations, not only has the fix been made, but it is already in place with user mods.

BTW: Thanks to John and the rest of the Da Babe's team for working out a solution for the issue and the implementation.

Pax,

Don't cloud this debate with facts. There is no place for that in this sort of debate

(sarcasm font enabled in case you didn't realize)

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: vettim89

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1





For once Hans, you and I are in TOTAL agreement. [:)]

Fix is already been done, so not sure what you are talking about.

Refer to Da Babe's. I've included the fix in my mod. Not sure it will ever reach the official scenarios as there is no indication that another data patch will happen. But, since this proposal is another user mod, could easily be incorporated as it is in John's RA mod.

So, contrary to your allegations, not only has the fix been made, but it is already in place with user mods.

BTW: Thanks to John and the rest of the Da Babe's team for working out a solution for the issue and the implementation.

Pax,

Don't cloud this debate with facts. There is no place for that in this sort of debate

(sarcasm font enabled in case you didn't realize)

Oops! Argh! My bad!!

<50 lashes for clouding the debate>
<50 more lashes for failure to see this is AFB rant>
<50 more just for fun! [:D]>

<sarcasm font still enabled>

[&o][&o][&o]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I would also suggest finding a way to tone down or restrict the overpowered late war Japanese E class ASW assets.

I have yet to see a single Japanese player offer to compensate for this design flaw by allowing the Allied player to have working torpedos. Since it seems most Japanese players would never agree to working US torpedos something needs to be done to reign in the E class.

For once Hans, you and I are in TOTAL agreement. [:)]

Fix is already been done, so not sure what you are talking about.

Refer to Da Babe's. I've included the fix in my mod. Not sure it will ever reach the official scenarios as there is no indication that another data patch will happen. But, since this proposal is another user mod, could easily be incorporated as it is in John's RA mod.

So, contrary to your allegations, not only has the fix been made, but it is already in place with user mods.

BTW: Thanks to John and the rest of the Da Babe's team for working out a solution for the issue and the implementation.

That is fine but I am two real life years into a stock scenario and it looks as if it will go on for at least another year.

It does really need to be addressed in stock as well. For me the most disappointing experience is the total absence of an Allied sub war on the Japanese merchant fleet. Mid 1944 in my game and I have pretty much pulled my subs from the Japanese sea lanes and just use them locally to hunt warships.

But I rant on again and again about this.....[;)]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I would also suggest finding a way to tone down or restrict the overpowered late war Japanese E class ASW assets.

I have yet to see a single Japanese player offer to compensate for this design flaw by allowing the Allied player to have working torpedos. Since it seems most Japanese players would never agree to working US torpedos something needs to be done to reign in the E class.

For once Hans, you and I are in TOTAL agreement. [:)]

Fix is already been done, so not sure what you are talking about.

Refer to Da Babe's. I've included the fix in my mod. Not sure it will ever reach the official scenarios as there is no indication that another data patch will happen. But, since this proposal is another user mod, could easily be incorporated as it is in John's RA mod.

So, contrary to your allegations, not only has the fix been made, but it is already in place with user mods.

BTW: Thanks to John and the rest of the Da Babe's team for working out a solution for the issue and the implementation.

Pax, I'm surprised at you behaving so childishly. He is talking about a mod of scenario 2, not about a mod to a base of DaBabes which would have the fix you refer to. So his base scenario, before his mods would NOT have the fix you refer to. We both know you are intelligent enough to know this.

We also know you are intelligent enough to recognize that there are many, many aspects of sceanrio 2 wherein Japan is more than significantly overpowered. Hence this post in the first place attempting to create a toned down version of Japanese overpoweredness.

For you to engage in a denegrating attack ("your allegations") at the first sign of some one suggesting a fix for some of that overpoweredness and then go on with your buddy vettim89 behaving like a couple of little children celebrating the manner in which you "told off" that idiot Hans is more appropriate for the schoolyard than these boards. Get out of child mode and act like an adult again.