With the Old Breed

[SuluSea]

I just finished With the Old Breed by E.B.Sledge . What a great read! I thoroughly enjoyed every bit of it. I'm wondering if any who have read both would like to share their thoughts on China Marine by Sledge. I have many books in the well to be read but enjoyed WTOB so much I'm thinking of buying China Marine first.[:)]

[Terminus]

It's interesting to read biographies of private soldiers. I'm currently reading "Co. Aytch" by Sam Watkins...

[Canoerebel]

Company Aytch is a great book.  I frequently quote from it both in my own writing and in giving programs to schools and civic groups.

Part of the book's charm - written by a Confederate private 20 years after the war - is that he makes some simple mistakes - not in what he saw, but mainly in things like when battles took place.  One that sticks in my mind is that he misdates the Battle of Lafayette - a minor action - by a year.  This does not detract from the book's importance or quality, but the reader does have to remain on his toes and realize the eyewitness did not have perfect recall.

I have not read With the Old Breed, but I've heard only good things about it.

The best work of eyewiteness history that I have ever read is We were Soldiers Once and Young.  I am not particularly interested in the Vietnam War, so my endorsement is from the heart.

[YankeeAirRat]

I have read China Marine. It is an interesting bit that talked about the opening of the China Civil War and the attempt of the US to regain some of its postions with regards to China as part of the immediate post-war years. Sledge was part of a marine company that attempted to return to Tientsin, China; if my faulty memory is right. He spent an additional 18 months in the Marines waiting to be demobilized. So he dealt with a winter there, watched as the Communists rose to power and had to deal with some of thier abuses towards to Americans, finally just dealing with being in the post-war period in Asia watching as old hatreds carry over into the post war period. It is just really short (like less then a hundred pages) so for me it was weekend read when I got it.

[LST Express]

Thought We were soldiers and With the old Breed were outstanding but I've never heard of Company Aytch. Will keep it in mind for later reading.

[John 3rd]

I required Band of Brothers and With the Old Breed for my U.S. Military History Class at UNC in Greeley. Superlative books before they ever became HBO Series!

[Schanilec]

Try 'Combat Officer' by Charles Walker - Following his campaigns with the 164th from Guadalcanal to the Philippines. Good book though I maybe biased because he 's from and lives in the area. He does not like West Pointer's nor was he very kind to the 1st Marine commanders.

[JocMeister]

With the old breed is a fantastic read. [:)]

[dr.hal]

Thanks, great feedback.... Hal

[Schanilec]

I really liked 'With the Old Breed'. I'd like to get my hands on Leckies 'Helmet for My Pillow'.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: Schanilec
...nor was he very kind to the 1st Marine commanders.

I'm not an expert, but didn't Archie Vandergrift do pretty well at Guadalanal? I know he made some mistakes, primarily in exposing himself to danger and thus placing some ofh is units at elevated risk (1st Marine Raiders in particular). But the guy was on the front lines and doing a decent job of leading by example. Not many generals do that (not maligning them - it's not usually their place to be on the front lines, Vandergrift, Roosevelet and a few others excepted).

[Flicker]

After the war, Sledge graduated from Auburn then earned a PhD at Florida. He taught biology for almost 30 years at the University of Montevallo (formerly known as a quiet "milk and cookie" school) in his home state of Alabama.

I like reading first person accounts - "From Huntsville to Appomattox" edited by Stocker, is Adjutant Robert Cole's account of the 4th Alabama, CSA Army of Northern Virginia, which fought in almost every Eastern campaign.

Here's a vignette from action during the siege of Petersburg:

"...the assault was made, and a gloriously successful one it was to our arms. The men went yelling, running, and fighting through horses, wagons, cannons, and camp, troopers fleeing in every direction. It was a regular picnic for the boys. Major Robbins cried out, "Look boys, I've at last found a prize worth fighting for." Holding aloft a frying pan with a good long handle and waving it in lieu of his sword, he cheered and urged the men forward, and appeared to value his capture immensely, until a bullet from one of Kautz's repeating Spencer rifles went through the bottom of it, and it was doubtless a more severe wound than the brave and gallant old soldier received in the Wilderness".

In addition to Semmes "Memoirs of Service Afloat", I recommend "Wolf of the Deep" by Fox (Semmes and the CSS Alabama); "Sea Wolf of the Confederacy" by Shaw (Read and the CSS Florida); and "Lamson of the Gettysburg" edited by McPherson (first person USN brown water and blockade account - namesake of DD Lamson).

[wolfclan]

Some of the fiction, based on real experience, can be powerful. THE SAND PEBBLES and FROM HERE TO ETERNITY come to mind, although it has been years since I've read either.

[Schanilec]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: Schanilec
...nor was he very kind to the 1st Marine commanders.

I'm not an expert, but didn't Archie Vandergrift do pretty well at Guadalanal? I know he made some mistakes, primarily in exposing himself to danger and thus placing some ofh is units at elevated risk (1st Marine Raiders in particular). But the guy was on the front lines and doing a decent job of leading by example. Not many generals do that (not maligning them - it's not usually their place to be on the front lines, Vandergrift, Roosevelet and a few others excepted).

Oh yes, Vandergrift did very well. He just limited praises to the 164th who also did very well. That is what Lt. Walker opined in his book.

[tocaff]

With The Old Breed was an excellent read.  Helmet For My Pillow was also a good one that gave a different view of life for the enlisted Marine in WWII.  I'm reading Band Of Brothers now and it too is very good.

[jmalter]

ORIGINAL: wolfclan

Some of the fiction, based on real experience, can be powerful. THE SAND PEBBLES and FROM HERE TO ETERNITY come to mind, although it has been years since I've read either.

+1 for Sand Pebbles, and the movie w/ Steve McQueen (& Candice Bergen!).

along these lines, try 'Once an Eagle' by Anton Myrer.

[AcePylut]

Got to realize, when reading Helmut for My Pillow, that Robert Leicke was only ~27 years old when he wrote it... and think about how life was back in the late 50's... (my dad graduated high school that year).  To say what he said as honestly as he did - talking shit about officers, the times in the brig, "Souvenirs", weed-women, great debauche, da runs, etc.... wasn't exactly how the war was portrayed to the public at the time.

[AcePylut]

"One of the marines went methodically among the dead armed with a pair of pliers. He had observed that the Japanese have a penchant for gold fillings in their teeth, often for solid gold teeth.  He was looting their very mouths.  He would kick their mouths agape, peer into the mouth with all of the solicitude of a Park Avenue dentist - careful, always careful not to contaminate himself by touch - and yank out all that glittered.  He kept the gold teeth in an empty Bull Durham tobacco sack, which he wore around his neck in the manner of an amulet. "

- Helmut for My Pillow

[tocaff]

When I was growing up (50s) the US soldiers were portrayed differently than other countries, on a higher plane.  We know that this was sheer nonsense and that there are good and bad everywhere.

[Knyvet]

Pulling the teeth for gold may reflect post-combat catharsis more than greed especially considering the soldier kept the teeth with the gold instead of just breaking up the teeth after extraction and taking the gold.