001 - With a Little Help from the StuGs

[UP844]

Back to scenario 001... a thin line of Russians has to stop the Germans, which are attempting to reach the Volga river bank.

The Russians have 4 leaders (B*, C*, 2 x C), 10 x 1st Line squads, 1 x LMG and 2 MMG's.
The Germans, according to the scenario description, consist of an infantry company (10-12 squads, I suppose). They have no MG's, but the two StuG's should provide them with enough support.

There are three VP hexes, worth (from north to south) 1, 1 and 2 VP. Winning this scenario requires at least 3 VP, so the possession of the southernmost VP hex is essential: unfortunately, it is lightly held (1 squad with a LMG) and is also at the end of the easiest approach for the Germans, with a road coming straight from the east end of the map [:(].
The northern part of the line, conversely is much more strongly held (both MMGs are here), so a southward move is mandatory.

The StuG's are my greatest worry, since I have no AT weapons at all. If I somehow manage to neutralise them, however, the battle will turn into an urban infantry battle. If I properly position my MMG's, I should be able to stop (or at least delay [:D]) them: the longer range of their infantry is not very important in this urban environment.

My second greatest worry is the weakness of the southernmost objective: the Germans can take it before I bring reinforcements, and retaking it might tough.

[UP844]

Turn 1

German player turn

No Fire segment (no German units are visible).

In the Movement Segment, the two StuG's approach the southern objective and stop a few hexes away. Some German infantry is moving but is not yet visible.

Nothing happens during the rest of the turn.

Russian player turn

No Fire segment (only StuG's are visible, and Russian have no AT weapons)

The StuG's are the cornerstone of the German attack, so I must kill (or at least neutralise) them. In the Movement Segment,Squad #9 charges the closest StuG, which rotates, fires... and misses (big sigh of relief). Leader #13 and Squad #8 try to attack the other StuG (the leader is required to give extra MPs to the squad; I could have moved double time but I feel that a <TIRED> status is not good in CC). The second StuG also rotates, fires and misses (even though it keeps its ROF) but German infantry a few hexes behind the AFVs breaks both Russian units.
The Russian units in the north sector begin their move south-east, with the exception of the northernmost squad, which is Out Of Command.

In the Defensive Fire Segment, the StuG fires again at the broken units that attempted assaulting it, but misses again.

Squad #8 enters CC with the StuG and remains locked in combat.

[Hailstone]

I noticed the mentioning of the Russian leader as something you had to explain a little puzzling. Unless I have it wrong, sounded like you didn't want to include the leader in CC with the tank but you had to because the squad needed to get there. I would think a leader would help the Russian squad in CC. Am I wrong?

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: Hailstone

I noticed the mentioning of the Russian leader as something you had to explain a little puzzling. Unless I have it wrong, sounded like you didn't want to include the leader in CC with the tank but you had to because the squad needed to get there. I would think a leader would help the Russian squad in CC. Am I wrong?

Yes, it's a good idea to include good order friendly leader because leader helps with morale checks and bonuses.

[UP844]

I didn't want to add the leader to the CC for various reasons:
> I don't think it can significantly increase the Russian chances in the CC;
> A "C" leader has no leadership bonus and so will provide no bonus on the pre-AFV-attack task check or on any MC due to enemy fire;
> The presence of the leader makes the squad more vulnerable to enemy fire, because if the leader fails a MC the squad will have to take an additional one.
> Since the Russian squad with the LMG at the South VP hex is guaranteed to be the #1 target for Germans, I would like to have a leader nearby to rally it.

All these considerations make up a nice theory, but I had to add the leader anyway, because otherwise the squad cannot reach the StuG hex without resorting to Double Time.

Unfortunately, the gamble didn't work as I would have liked [;)]. On the other hand, I think taking the StuGs out of the battle for a few turns is well worth a suicidal attack, even if they are not destroyed/immobilized in CC. The Russians have no AT weapons but their MMGs should give them an edge against an infantry force that, sooner or later, has to cross some low-TEM hexes [:D].

[UP844]

Turn 2

German player turn

In the Fire Segment, the StuG not locked in CC fires 2 shots on Russian squad #5 in 8,17 (just NE of the middle VP hex) without effect,
In the Movement Segment, some German squads appear in the North; Russian defensive fire has no effect.
In the Advance Segment, more German infantry appears in the South.

Russian player turn

In the Fire Segment, squad #4 in 9,15 (SE of the North VP Hex) fires at two German squads in a wooden building, with no effect.

In the Movement Segment, squad #5 moves to the Middle VP Hex to hide from the StuG; the MMG squad enters the large stone building with the aim of establishing a "fire lane" along the road the German must cross to reach the VP hexes.

In the Advance Segment, the MMG takes its intended position: I have some doubt they can withstand German fire, but if the Germans fire they will lose a turn anyway; the C* leader and squad in the rubble SE of the middle objective move out of the StuG LOS. The StuG should have no targets and will (hopefully) advance and (hopefully) give me another chance at CC, even though it won't be an easy task, given the presence of German infantry.

The StuG and the Russian infantry remain locked in CC.

The image below shows the situation at the end of Russian Advance Segment.

[UP844]

Turn 3

German player turn

In the Fire Segment, both German stacks in the North fire at the MMG-armed squad and break it.
In the Movement Segment, the StuG moves NW and stops just before the South VP, with German infantry following. The other Russian MMG fires at the German squads in the wooden building, pinning one and inflicting CR (withouth breaking it) on the other.
In the Rout Segment, the Russian squads flees and leaves the MMG behind.
In the Advance Segment, the Germans in the north move west: a leader and two squads enter the building facing the Middle VP Hex.

Russian player turn

In the Fire Segment, the Russian MMG continues firing at the squad in the wooden building, but with no effect.
All other Russian units are Out Of Command.
German Defensive Fire does no harm.
In the Close Combat Segment, the squad manages to kill the StuG. Unfortunately, the victorious unit is in the middle of a bunch of angry Germans.

[Hailstone]

Got it but, I was thinking along the lines of cowering. Can that happen in CC?

[marcdhanna]

Since we are not informed of the exact formula used to calculate CCV, we can only guess at the impact of adding a leader based on ASL rules.

Cowering has no effect in CC in ASL, so my guess is there is no effect of such in this game.

The designer specifies above that sending in the leader 'helps with bonuses' but we don't know what kind of bonuses and how that affects the probability of success-- again -- unless we assume that it is the same as ASL by adding 1 to the base CCV of the MMC and also providing a DRM that affects the close combat via leadership modifier. In this case the OP has indicated there is no leadership modifier for this leader, so felt it unnecessary to send him in. However, I may disagree with the conclusion that sending the leader in is more risky than without, since a lower morale leader does not result in LLMC (again using the ASL rules-set as a reference). In ASL, adding one to the CCV is a huge improvement and higher probability of success in CC vs an AFV, but we are not informed and cannot calculate that in this game. And we should be able to.

I make these statements in order to point out how the game needs to be 'de-tuned' from ASL so we don't have to keep going back to that rules-set in order to make decisions about whether or not to send in the leader (as in this case).

What should be provided in the manual of the game are statistical data so we can make these decisions with the game standing on it's own. I've checked the Appendixes in the manual since the most recent update, and this information is yet to be provided. I would highly recommend it because vague advice is no substitute for being able to make a mathematical assessment on the basis of an easily provided appendix table.

[Edit: also useful of course would be some kind of in-game probability calculator when deciding on the success of CC alternatives -- just as good, if not better, and more in line with what other games of this ilk -- e.g. Panzer Corps -- provide for us computer generals ]

[UP844]

Marcdhanna, your remarks are right, but I'd like to point out that the leader has morale C (ASL equivalent = 8) and the squad has morale ** (ASL equivalent = 7), so the squad - having a lower morale level - must take any LLTC/LLMC caused by leader break/elimination.

Besides that, the attack on the StuG's is essentially a suicide mission, because even a victorious squad will have to face a lot of German infantry at point-blank range in the next German fire segment. If the squad kills the StuG in a CC Segment at the end of a German player turn, it might have some chance to escape.

Anyway, if the leader+squad stack survived the German defensive fire in turn #1 (which it didn't), the leader would have advanced back west instead of entering CC: I prefer (my personal opinion) having this leader ready to rally the Russian squad sitting atop the South objective when the German attack will break it.

[marcdhanna]

UP844, I didn't look at the particulars. I made the assumption of a low morale leader C ASL = 7, which was not the case apparently. Nevertheless, my comments were instructive based on assumptions that players know how all of this works if ASL is being played. Where in the manual are we supposed to know that ** squad morale is less than a morale level of a Leader C?

Only by translating such to ASL values can we know this.

In fact your comments have illustrated precisely my point about all this -- the only way you would know this would result in LLMC/TC, is if you are making a transformation to ASL values! I can't find anything like this in the manual for the game. I see you did not comment on this main point, why not?

In any event by no means am I criticizing your play, but using this conversation to highlight how dependent we are, at the moment, on awareness of how things work in ASL.

[UP844]

Marcdhanna, I must confess I didn't give more than a cursory glance to the manual [:)]: I just resumed playing ASL after a 25-year pause (and I was amazed how easily I did it).

On the other hand, I agree the manual requires some extra depth. I am not fond at all of those articles in "The General" that were supposed to help you decide if it is better to fire 4 FP twice or 8 FP once in a dozen table-ridden pages. I'd like to know, however, some extra detail without having to make some custom scenario to make an empirical assessment of some aspect of the game.
I had to make my own Vehicle Tables, running all the vehicles on a custom map, just to know how many MPs they have (I suppose crews have a vague idea of the speed of their vehicles). I also added some notes about limited ammo. I can release it, if someone is interested.
I was also toying with the idea of performing some "fire tests" to assess the capabilities of various guns vs. AFVs: I carried out some, but it is a huge task and it could be avoided if we only had a listing of the piercing capabilities and armor values (all we know taking on a IS-2m with a Pz IIL is suicide, but it would be nice to have a vague idea of what are the chances of killing a T-34 with a Puma).

As regards to the specific point, I agree theat the use of identical codes for different values (the bottom left letter represents firepower for squads/HS and morale level for leaders, while the number of stars represents morale level for squads and leadership capability for leaders) might drive anyone but ASL grognards crazy.

[RussW]

Which Mod has those sweet counters??I'd like to get it,,Thanks

[UP844]

The counters are the default ones, I have no graphic mods installed.

[UP844]

Turn 4

German player turn

In the Fire Segment, the surviving StuG fires 2 rounds (again!) on the Russian squad in the South VP hex, breaking it. German infantry in the north fires on the squad in the Middle VP hex wth no effect. In the south, German infantry fires on the squad that just killed the StuG and eliminates it.

In the Movement Segment, German infantry crosses the road to reinforce the forward squad: Russian MMG fire, despite the B* leader, is ineffective and the MMG breaks down.

In the Advance Segment, a German stack (a leader and 2 squads) advance in the orchard in front of the Middle VP Hex.

Russian player turn

In the fire segment, fire on 12,17 Casualty Reduces a squad and kills another; the Russian C* leader and a squad fire on the German stack in the orchard with good results: the leader is broken and fails its Experience Check, a squad is pinned and the other is broken.

In the Movement Segment, 2 Russian squads and a C leader move to recover the abandoned MMG and to cut the retreat path for the Germans.

In the Defensive Fire segment, the Stug fires again to the squad in the South VP hex with no effect.

In the Rout Segments, the Germans in the north move to the back of the building (and come into LOS of the Russians that just arrived there); the Russian squad in the South VP hex retreats before being wiped out by German fire. In the next Rout Segment, it will attempt to rejoin the squad that attempted the failed StuG attack on turn 1 and their leader.

In the Advance Segment, 2 Russian squads advance adjacent to the building in the north: at worst, they will force the Germans to fall back.

The German northern force has ceased to be a threat, but in the South the German forces are intact and will not stop at the South VP hex.

[UP844]

Turn 5

German player turn

In the Administrative Segment, the Russians repair the broken MMG and recover the abandoned one. They will need them.

The Germans do not fire in their Fire Segment
In the Movement Segment, German infantry takes the South VP hex - the Russian B* leader and his stack fire with the MMG but with no effect. Other German infantry in the south moves North.
The StuG dashes forward and stops adjacent to the Middle VP hex (and to squad #5) pointing North.
In the Defensive Fire Segment, Russians fire to broken German units to keep them at "broken+" status.
In the Advancing Fire Segment, the German stack that took the South VP hex fires on the broken squad with no effect, then advances northward. The StuG firest to the Russian squad in the open, with no effect.
The LMG-armed Russian squad routes away in the hex containing the C* leader. German routed units in the north rout SW remaing within the building.

Russian player turn

No Fire Segment
The two Russian squads in the north enter the building and move adjacent to the German squad in the orchard, which fails its Final Protective Fire Morale Check with devastating results (it breaks, suffers Casualty Reduction and fails its Experience Check).
The squad stacked with the C* leader attempts to move adjacent to the StuG, but is pinned; the LMG-armed squad has been rallied and also makes the attempt - and succeeds.(**)
In the Defensive Fire Segment, the StuG decides to fire at a OOC Russian squad 5 hexes away, even though it has 2 squads that are about to assault it.
In the Rout Segment, the German units rout away, using low crawl to avoid interdiction from the Russian MMG.
In the Advance Segment the Russian squads in the Middle objective enter CC with the StuG, while the others move adjacent to the broken German units.
In the CC Segment, the two Russian squads kill the StuG.

Now, I only have to figure out how to retake the South VP hex in 2 turns [;)].

(**) I tried to keep both the C* leader and the LMG-armed squad out from the attack on the StuG because it is a dangerous task (even though this time the nearest Germans have to fire through several hindrance hexes) and I will need them to retake the South objective.

The image shows the situation at the end of the Close Combat Segment of the Russian player turn.

[RussW]

UP844
Feel stupid I modded mine when I first got it and forgot what the original ones looked like ,,Think I'll get back to basics

[Hailstone]

RussW - Easy Marine, easy.