Next War 1979 - Expanded (Beta 1.0) play testers needed

[mussey]

After several months of editing, The Next War 1979 - Expanded (Beta 1.0) is now being released for community play testing. It was built upon Bob Cross' rendition of SPI's The Next War, which is a superb scenario. I want to thank Cathar1244 for helping me with an enormous amount of orbat assistance to help make this as historically accurate as possible for this time period.

Please respond with any feedback here, my goal is to have a final product ready by Sunday 3/24/19.

Several issues need scrutiny and further review:
- Supply levels, especially for the Warsaw Pact. Do they need a bump?
- Naval units, I did the best I could on modeling them through the editor, but they may need tweaking.
- Reinforcements, are there any major mistakes with place and time? Pay particular attention to United States forces.

Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated. [:)]

[pz501]

Thought I'd take the opportunity to point out a few problem areas with the disposition of M60A2 tanks in the U.S. TO&E/OOB.

During this time period, these tanks were assigned on the basis of 51 each to Mech Infantry Divisions, and 108 each to Armored Divisions (all under the "H" Series TO&E's). This really applied to 7th Army (USAEUR) for the most part. The was only one battalion in CONUS.

The breakdown went like this:

USAEUR/7th Army:
V Corps, 3rd AD, 1st Brigade (3-33 Armor) 54 tanks
V Corps, 3rd AD, 3rd Brigade (1-32 Armor) 54 tanks
V Corps, 8th ID Mech, 1st Brigade (Co C, 4-69 Armor) 17 tanks
V Corps, 8th ID Mech, 2nd Brigade (Co C, 2-68 Armor) 17 tanks
V Corps, 8th ID Mech, 3rd Brigade (Co C, 5-68 Armor) 17 Tanks
VII Corps, 1st AD, 1st Brigade (1-37 Armor) 54 tanks
VII Corps, 1st AD, 3rd Brigade (3-35 Armor) 54 tanks
VII Corps, 3rd ID Mech, 1st Brigade (Co C, 2-64 Armor) 17 tanks
VII Corps, 3rd ID Mech, 1st Brigade (Co C, 3-64 Armor) 17 tanks
VII Corps, 3rd ID Mech, 2nd Brigade (Co C, 1-64 Armor) 17 tanks

In CONUS:
III Corps, 2nd AD, 1st Brigade, (1-67 Armor) 54 tanks

Why Mech Divisions didn't operate the M60A2 in "pure" battalions like the Armored Divisions did was a mystery at the time, and remains one (to me at least) to this day.

2nd AD at Ft. Hood only had the one battalion noted above, and only two brigades of the Division were located there. The Division's 3rd Brigade would have been "Brigade 75" which was stationed in packets at Grafenwohr, Hohenfels, and Wildflecken. It was later moved to Garlstedt, and formally re-flagged as 2nd AD Forward, but that is outside of the scenario time frame anyway. Brigade 75 had no M60A2's assigned.

At the time the scenario takes place, I was a member of 3-33 Armor, and trust me, the M60A2 was a complete maintenance nightmare with very low reliability when it came to it's main gun/launcher. For that matter, so was the M551 Sheridan that Cav units had in the same time period.

Hope this is of some use to you.

[cathar1244]

I want to thank Cathar1244 for helping me with an enormous amount of orbat assistance to help make this as historically accurate as possible for this time period.

Mussey,

Very kind of you to acknowledge my assistance, I am glad to help. I had accumulated some data and this is a good use for it.

Bob Cross did us all a huge favor by "TOAW-izing" this old classic, and you have put a ton of effort into making it even more fun. Great job by both of you. [&o]

Cheers

[cathar1244]

pz501, that data you posted is a keeper. Thank you.

Cheers

[mussey]

Teaser alert:

Soviet 103rd AB with some Marine friends are assaulting Zealand. This is the first game turn of war, after several pulses...

[cathar1244]

Wow, the Pact moved onto that airfield on Bornholm quickly. Are the Danish "civilian units" home guard troops?

Cheers

[pz501]

Cathar,

Thank you. No problem at all. OOB research has always been a hobby of mine, and if you need anything else for the U.S. Army during this time period, just let me know. I was doing a super detailed OOB for another game "Danube Front '85" from John Tiller that involved a 1976 starting date at one time. The OOB file was researched and completed, but the scenario was never done. The OOB itself can be read using programs like Word or WordPad. If you guys want it, I can send you a copy. It looks like you and I have been using many of the same sources, and our research seems to dovetail nicely.

[cathar1244]

ORIGINAL: pz501

Cathar,

Thank you. No problem at all. OOB research has always been a hobby of mine, and if you need anything else for the U.S. Army during this time period, just let me know. I was doing a super detailed OOB for another game "Danube Front '85" from John Tiller that involved a 1976 starting date at one time. The OOB file was researched and completed, but the scenario was never done. The OOB itself can be read using programs like Word or WordPad. If you guys want it, I can send you a copy. It looks like you and I have been using many of the same sources, and our research seems to dovetail nicely.

pz501, the best information I've seen so far in terms of OOB are the USAREUR troop and station lists, but the last one I have is for 1976. In the 13 years after that, the implementation of the U.S. Army Regimental System and the move from H series to J series TOE's induced a lot of unit re-flaggings and major combat unit structure changes. If you know of good sources for 1977-1988, please advise. I am aware of one German site for 1989 that is very good in terms of its information -- https://www.relikte.com/literatur.htm

If you're willing to post the OOB you mentioned here, please do so. I also have assembled a list of USAREUR combat units to battalion level for 1985.

Cheers

[pz501]

Cathar,

I tried to upload that OOB and this system will not allow it. Say's the file type is not supported. If you can PM me an email address for you, I'll sent it that way. When I tried emailing you through this system using your profile, I can't include any attachments that way either.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: pz501

Cathar,

I tried to upload that OOB and this system will not allow it. Say's the file type is not supported. If you can PM me an email address for you, I'll sent it that way. When I tried emailing you through this system using your profile, I can't include any attachments that way either.

Just change the filename to "[WhatEverIt'sNameIs].txt" and then the guy at the other end just removes the ".txt"
and you've just cheated the system.

[mussey]

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Wow, the Pact moved onto that airfield on Bornholm quickly. Are the Danish "civilian units" home guard troops?

Cheers

[Edit: this refers to Zealand] Yes, Home Guard. Soviets have several advantages: 1) AB has a about a plus 40% advantage in Proficiency, 2) Interior lines (they landed in the middle of the island), 3) the two WP marine rgts were mad as hell.

Bornholm was invaded with two rgts of Polish marines. They're go-getters. The remaining rgt assaulted Zealand.

[MikeJ19]

I opened it up to try out - looks great. I selected the hot seat option. After selecting invade right away option - ended turns for both WP and NATO. Turn 2 started and NATO went first? This does not make sense to me...

Looking forward to playing this game

Thanks for all the hard work,

Mike

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19

After selecting invade right away option - ended turns for both WP and NATO. Turn 2 started and NATO went first?

Turn Variable Initiative OFF.

[pz501]

Cathar,

I sent you a PM with that OOB we were talking about using Larry Fulkerson's method, and it seems to have worked. Check your inbox.

Larry, thanks for the help!

[mussey]

ORIGINAL: pz501

Thought I'd take the opportunity to point out a few problem areas with the disposition of M60A2 tanks in the U.S. TO&E/OOB.

During this time period, these tanks were assigned on the basis of 51 each to Mech Infantry Divisions, and 108 each to Armored Divisions (all under the "H" Series TO&E's). This really applied to 7th Army (USAEUR) for the most part. The was only one battalion in CONUS.

The breakdown went like this:

USAEUR/7th Army:
V Corps, 3rd AD, 1st Brigade (3-33 Armor) 54 tanks
V Corps, 3rd AD, 3rd Brigade (1-32 Armor) 54 tanks
V Corps, 8th ID Mech, 1st Brigade (Co C, 4-69 Armor) 17 tanks
V Corps, 8th ID Mech, 2nd Brigade (Co C, 2-68 Armor) 17 tanks
V Corps, 8th ID Mech, 3rd Brigade (Co C, 5-68 Armor) 17 Tanks
VII Corps, 1st AD, 1st Brigade (1-37 Armor) 54 tanks
VII Corps, 1st AD, 3rd Brigade (3-35 Armor) 54 tanks
VII Corps, 3rd ID Mech, 1st Brigade (Co C, 2-64 Armor) 17 tanks
VII Corps, 3rd ID Mech, 1st Brigade (Co C, 3-64 Armor) 17 tanks
VII Corps, 3rd ID Mech, 2nd Brigade (Co C, 1-64 Armor) 17 tanks

In CONUS:
III Corps, 2nd AD, 1st Brigade, (1-67 Armor) 54 tanks

Why Mech Divisions didn't operate the M60A2 in "pure" battalions like the Armored Divisions did was a mystery at the time, and remains one (to me at least) to this day.

2nd AD at Ft. Hood only had the one battalion noted above, and only two brigades of the Division were located there. The Division's 3rd Brigade would have been "Brigade 75" which was stationed in packets at Grafenwohr, Hohenfels, and Wildflecken. It was later moved to Garlstedt, and formally re-flagged as 2nd AD Forward, but that is outside of the scenario time frame anyway. Brigade 75 had no M60A2's assigned.

At the time the scenario takes place, I was a member of 3-33 Armor, and trust me, the M60A2 was a complete maintenance nightmare with very low reliability when it came to it's main gun/launcher. For that matter, so was the M551 Sheridan that Cav units had in the same time period.

Hope this is of some use to you.

PZ, thanks for the feedback. Good info. The M60A2 Starship made the cut and is in the orbats. Let me know if you find any more info.

[MikeJ19]

Hi Guys,

I mentioned the fact that NATO went first on the second turn - which is the first war turn - I think that this should not happen. The second turn needs to begin with the WP invasion, or whenever they declare war.

I do not want to have to turn off the variable initiative, I really like it.

Thanks,

[mussey]

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19

Hi Guys,

I mentioned the fact that NATO went first on the second turn - which is the first war turn - I think that this should not happen. The second turn needs to begin with the WP invasion, or whenever they declare war.

I do not want to have to turn off the variable initiative, I really like it.

Thanks,

MikeJ, as a suggestion, if you were to leave variable game turn on, and if NATO were to go first, then do not move any units. Or if you were to, do a very limited move (maybe 10 movement points?).

However, a point to remember is that the aggressor in most wars moves first...

In my opinion, variable-turn movement doesn't work in most games. For example, if NATO were to move first, what would happen if WP were to get x2 turns in a row. Not very realistic. For this scenario, I highly recommend that you leave it off. Give it a try and see what you think, I will need your opinion on WP supply levels and other matters as we move ahead with Beta refinements.

[mussey]

I am making some changes to the initial mobilization time line through the Event Editor. This applies to the 1st turn of war only (GT2)"Sudden War":
- WP forces take 24 hours to assemble, thus their movement is reduced by 24/84 = -28%.
- NATO take a 20 hour delay to respond/surprise, plus 24 hrs to assemble. Movement = -56%
- I tweaked the SHOCK values, WP 123, NATO 98, which = 25% WP advantage. I did this so that more NATO units will not be frozen/unmovable on the first turn.

The net result for WP is that they still have a 25% shock advantage, but their advance/penetration reduced to 72% movement. For NATO, retarded movement to their war time deployment areas and a 2% chance that a formation will be unable to move.

[mussey]

Another teaser:

The Finmark region or Norway is easily overrun by the Soviet 6th Army. But with no railroad, and limited sea supplies along a few villages along the coast, not sure how far they will go before they run out of steam. The goal is to at least take Bardufoss and Narvik. The 76th Airborne Div., located at Pskov can aid the the advance, but the terrain in the landing areas is rough...

[mussey]

Here's the Narvik region: