Introduction
This AAR is based on a vs AI 1943 Campaign game. Settings are the standard 'challenging'. The focus will be on planning and interpretation rather than the detail of actual moves, as I think that is of most value.
This is my third start. First I abandoned about T10 when it was clear that I'd totally botched the planning and phasing aspect of the game. Second I gave up in early 1944, it was going well enough but wanted to restart with the latest patch. In addition have played most of the scenarios (but only from the Allied side so far).
I've a fair bit of experience with WiTE (again mostly from the Soviet side) so start this with a grasp of the basics of the land war. In particular how to create formations designed for a particular purpose so as the game develops I'll explore that in some detail. However, as is obvious, there are real differences even in the land war. Some are in the rules but the best are indirect. My first play of Husky I started trying to clear German strong points as if I was using the Red Army. Well not only did the attacks fail but I lost the game due the resulting casualties.
My current PBEM opponent in WiTE summed up the difference between the two games very well. WiTE is an operational game where you need to do some long term planning. WiTW (at least for the allies) is a strategic game with an operational aspect where you implement those plans.
Once Upon a Time (somewhere) in the West
Moderator: MOD_WarintheWest
Table of Contents
Messing About in Boats Turn 1
The Piper at the Gates of Dawn Turn 2
Leave it to Ullyses Turns 3-4
The Wild Wood Turns 5-6
If you go down to the woods ...Turns 7-8
Oh, pooooh, boating (said Toad) Turns 9-10
Toad hits the open road Turn 11
Dulce Dolmum Turns 12-13
The Silent Silver Community Turns 14-15
Breakout towards Salerno, fall of Sardinia Turns 16-17
The broken tumultuous water Turns 18-19
Roma, Città Chiusa Turns 20-21
Rome falls Turns 22-24
Slow progress in Italy Turns 25-27
Snow in N Europe, liberating Pontius Pilate in Italy Turns 28-30
Goodnight Vienna ... and other bombing raids Turns 31-34
Having a rest and bombing things Turns 35-39
Getting ready to invade Turns 40-46
Safely ashore Turns 47-48
The fromage hits the fondue Turns 49-50
Into the Bocage Turns 51-52
Liberating Paris Turns 53-54
Entering Belgium, bombing Germany Turns 55-56
Bomber Command gets a headache, Cherbourg falls Turns 57-58
The Germans counterattack, Cannes becomes Brazilian, the Death Star reaches Le Havre Turns 59-60
Supply problems, the advance of the Death Star and the liberation of the CalanquesTurns 61-62
Brussels is liberated, my Paratroops are sent to Northern Ireland Turns 63-64
Most of France is free Turns 65-66
Liberation of Maastricht, Calais is attacked by a huge death star Turns 67-68
More Coastal Ports are captured Turns 69-70
The start of the 'Antwerp campaign' Turns 71-72
3 Army tries to break out Turns 73-74
The fall of Antwerp Turns 75-76
Briefly entering Germany Turns 77-78
Returning to Germany, failing in Flanders, capture Brest Turns 79-80
Reaching the Rhine Turns 81-82
Watching the Rhine Turns 83-84
Crossing the Rhine Turns 85-86
Rotterdam is liberated Turns 87-88
Mud Turns 89-91
Liberation of Amsterdam Turns 92-93
Utrecht, Bitburg and Livorno captured Turns 94-95
Arnhem liberated, Krefeld captured Turns 96-97
Wuppertal and Kassel captured, US 3 Army breaks the German lines in the north Turns 98-99
The Ruhr is encircled Turns 100-101
Reducing the Ruhr, occupying Hannover, nowhere near Berlin Turns 102-103
Only 60 miles from Berlin Turns 104-105
Game ends with a major allied defeat Turn 106
The Piper at the Gates of Dawn Turn 2
Leave it to Ullyses Turns 3-4
The Wild Wood Turns 5-6
If you go down to the woods ...Turns 7-8
Oh, pooooh, boating (said Toad) Turns 9-10
Toad hits the open road Turn 11
Dulce Dolmum Turns 12-13
The Silent Silver Community Turns 14-15
Breakout towards Salerno, fall of Sardinia Turns 16-17
The broken tumultuous water Turns 18-19
Roma, Città Chiusa Turns 20-21
Rome falls Turns 22-24
Slow progress in Italy Turns 25-27
Snow in N Europe, liberating Pontius Pilate in Italy Turns 28-30
Goodnight Vienna ... and other bombing raids Turns 31-34
Having a rest and bombing things Turns 35-39
Getting ready to invade Turns 40-46
Safely ashore Turns 47-48
The fromage hits the fondue Turns 49-50
Into the Bocage Turns 51-52
Liberating Paris Turns 53-54
Entering Belgium, bombing Germany Turns 55-56
Bomber Command gets a headache, Cherbourg falls Turns 57-58
The Germans counterattack, Cannes becomes Brazilian, the Death Star reaches Le Havre Turns 59-60
Supply problems, the advance of the Death Star and the liberation of the CalanquesTurns 61-62
Brussels is liberated, my Paratroops are sent to Northern Ireland Turns 63-64
Most of France is free Turns 65-66
Liberation of Maastricht, Calais is attacked by a huge death star Turns 67-68
More Coastal Ports are captured Turns 69-70
The start of the 'Antwerp campaign' Turns 71-72
3 Army tries to break out Turns 73-74
The fall of Antwerp Turns 75-76
Briefly entering Germany Turns 77-78
Returning to Germany, failing in Flanders, capture Brest Turns 79-80
Reaching the Rhine Turns 81-82
Watching the Rhine Turns 83-84
Crossing the Rhine Turns 85-86
Rotterdam is liberated Turns 87-88
Mud Turns 89-91
Liberation of Amsterdam Turns 92-93
Utrecht, Bitburg and Livorno captured Turns 94-95
Arnhem liberated, Krefeld captured Turns 96-97
Wuppertal and Kassel captured, US 3 Army breaks the German lines in the north Turns 98-99
The Ruhr is encircled Turns 100-101
Reducing the Ruhr, occupying Hannover, nowhere near Berlin Turns 102-103
Only 60 miles from Berlin Turns 104-105
Game ends with a major allied defeat Turn 106
Turn 1: 3 – 9 July 1943
Turn 1: 3 – 9 July 1943
Air Planning: Northern Europe
I find it very useful to spend a lot of time before making a move setting up the allied airforces in the UK as you will need them later on, but its ok to be less effective in the first few turns. They start, to use a good Scots word, in a guddle. Its worth having a look at Carlkay vs Pelton for one revision, but I've tried something different from my experience so far.
So what I do is:
Fighter Command:
strip out most of the NF formations, these go to Bomber Command, but keep 3-4 just in case;
Strip out the FB formations, I put these into the Tactical Air (this just helps me envisage what I am doing when setting air directives)
a lot of tedious rebasing, move all the short range fighters down to SE England (you'll find them all over the map)
Tactical Command
as above boost with more FB formations
review the FB squadrons, you'll find some trained as bombers not in the best aircraft for that role:
I also convert about 8 FB squadrons from fighter to bomber roles (easy to absorb the 8 turn loss of the unit at this stage). You'll find some that start the scenario in a bomber role but still trained as fighters, I also like to convert to Typhoons/Mosquitos as quickly as I can.
My longer term goal here is to have 3 rough groups of planes. Short ranged and optimised for interdiction, long range and optimised for interdiction and optimised to hit supply nets. At the moment my feeling is the first two roles are better done using rocket armed aircraft (drawing on WiTE experience).
Bomber Command
Move most of the newly assigned NF formations to the South East or East Anglia (I find this gives good cover apart from for Berlin)
I keep the Stirlings in Bomber Command (unlike Carlkay) but I'll use them to bomb ports and rail junctions in France (night at first but day once I have a degree of air control)
In terms of targets, I'm going for manpower primarily and some attention to HI. I think that hitting HI is useful as it is the basis for all industrial production.
Coastal Command
Move the shorter range planes down to the South Coast, note that some units in the UK actually belong with the Med theatre so you may as well transfer those.
US 8th
Main thing here is to move their escorts into East Anglia, next turn I'll convert to longer range planes
US 9th
At this stage I'll allocate a few short range fighters, purely for air superiority
Orders
I ended up setting up a pattern of attacks in Normandy/Picardy as:
Given the number of aircraft transfers, T1 won't be very impressive, but this starts to set the pattern.
RAF Bomber Command is split into 3 bombing groups, Cologne gets a direct attack due to its high manpower value. Targets are Manpower with some attention to HI. As you can see, I'm setting up air superiority over the Netherlands and using part of the Tactical AirForce to hit airfields.
Finally US 8th Airforce is going U-Boats but also Fuel and HI. For the first set of raids I'm avoiding the high flak at Hamburg (there are enough other targets) and accept that these will lack escorts (which won't really be available to T3).
Air Planning: Southern Europe
Since bombs on the ground matters more in the first turn here, I do much less organising. The only real changes are that a sizeable block of short range planes for Coastal Command start in Algeria. I designate one base in Tunisia and move them up so they can contribute from T2.
The directives are fairly obvious. Tac air and superiority goes to Sicily, set up naval patrols around the 2 main invasion sites. Another group of naval air is in action off Sardinia and the Strategic Bombers start their campaign of destroying ports and rail yards.
This shows the Sicily part of the operation in more detail:
Air Execution: Northern Europe
So what happened? On first sight, pretty disastrous, 850 planes lost and 1170 damaged.
WiTW provides you with a wealth of data that allows you to evaluate the air war. Even if you play relatively hands off, you really need to make use of this.
For a start you can spot if a given mission did not take place. Here the US 9th airforce didn't as it believed it had too few aircraft, something I can adjust in T2. Equally its clear (and was predictable) that the US 8th airforce over Bremerhaven had a very time of it.
You can open out the details of each mission to see what happened. This shows the impact of the Stirlings in France, which was ok, so for the moment I'll carry on bombing by night.
Bomber Command did a better job at Cologne.
If we look at 8 Airforce in more detail, for all those losses, they did do a lot of damage
Now we can go to the battle site, either via the map or the command report, and look at more detail.
Here's the worst raid (for US losses), so the lack of escorts was fatal. Till they are ready, what I may try to do is raise the altitude (at a loss of efficiency) and see if that improves things.
Working between the commander's report and on-map battlesites will tell you a lot. Where did they suffer their heaviest losses? Where are their fighters intercepting your bombers?
Air Execution: Southern Europe
None of those really stands out. Looking at the details, and on-map, I'm happy enough with the strategic airwar. Critically I have taken control of the air over the invasion sites;
Men Messing about in Boats: Southern Europe
I'm going to adapt something I tried before and make a relatively weak invasion of Sicily. I'm going to weaken it by re-assigning XXX Corps to just above the toe of Italy. If this works I may trap a number of German units in the south and I've found this to be less well defended than around Salerno. It will be supported by two waves of airborne, one for the invasion turn and one the turn after to cut the rail on across the Crati. This also avoids the risk of losing British paras in Sicily, something that seems to happen about 50% of the time.
The other invasion is planned for western Sardinia, again land and paras will be used.
At a command level, what I will do is to use the US 7 Army to control the invasions of Sardinia and Corsica and a later invasion near Rome. The British 8 Army and US 5 Army are landing in Sicily but I'll also use 5 Army to control any invasions in S Italy. This helps in allocating Support Units and also keeping command lines as simple as possible. Unlike in WiTE, there is no real excuse in WiTW for accepting combat command malus due to confusion at the Corps/Army level.
I'm moving 4 Infantry Divisions from the UK to the Med. They will help provide follow up forces for the secondary invasions as well as the core of the later planned landings.
And here we go
Future updates won't be so long, but it seems worthwhile to explore what I am trying do as much as present the actual outcomes.
And since I do like pictures, heres one to be going on with. Since I suspect I won't win, here is the likely end of game position:
Air Planning: Northern Europe
I find it very useful to spend a lot of time before making a move setting up the allied airforces in the UK as you will need them later on, but its ok to be less effective in the first few turns. They start, to use a good Scots word, in a guddle. Its worth having a look at Carlkay vs Pelton for one revision, but I've tried something different from my experience so far.
So what I do is:
Fighter Command:
strip out most of the NF formations, these go to Bomber Command, but keep 3-4 just in case;
Strip out the FB formations, I put these into the Tactical Air (this just helps me envisage what I am doing when setting air directives)
a lot of tedious rebasing, move all the short range fighters down to SE England (you'll find them all over the map)
Tactical Command
as above boost with more FB formations
review the FB squadrons, you'll find some trained as bombers not in the best aircraft for that role:
I also convert about 8 FB squadrons from fighter to bomber roles (easy to absorb the 8 turn loss of the unit at this stage). You'll find some that start the scenario in a bomber role but still trained as fighters, I also like to convert to Typhoons/Mosquitos as quickly as I can.
My longer term goal here is to have 3 rough groups of planes. Short ranged and optimised for interdiction, long range and optimised for interdiction and optimised to hit supply nets. At the moment my feeling is the first two roles are better done using rocket armed aircraft (drawing on WiTE experience).
Bomber Command
Move most of the newly assigned NF formations to the South East or East Anglia (I find this gives good cover apart from for Berlin)
I keep the Stirlings in Bomber Command (unlike Carlkay) but I'll use them to bomb ports and rail junctions in France (night at first but day once I have a degree of air control)
In terms of targets, I'm going for manpower primarily and some attention to HI. I think that hitting HI is useful as it is the basis for all industrial production.
Coastal Command
Move the shorter range planes down to the South Coast, note that some units in the UK actually belong with the Med theatre so you may as well transfer those.
US 8th
Main thing here is to move their escorts into East Anglia, next turn I'll convert to longer range planes
US 9th
At this stage I'll allocate a few short range fighters, purely for air superiority
Orders
I ended up setting up a pattern of attacks in Normandy/Picardy as:
Given the number of aircraft transfers, T1 won't be very impressive, but this starts to set the pattern.
RAF Bomber Command is split into 3 bombing groups, Cologne gets a direct attack due to its high manpower value. Targets are Manpower with some attention to HI. As you can see, I'm setting up air superiority over the Netherlands and using part of the Tactical AirForce to hit airfields.
Finally US 8th Airforce is going U-Boats but also Fuel and HI. For the first set of raids I'm avoiding the high flak at Hamburg (there are enough other targets) and accept that these will lack escorts (which won't really be available to T3).
Air Planning: Southern Europe
Since bombs on the ground matters more in the first turn here, I do much less organising. The only real changes are that a sizeable block of short range planes for Coastal Command start in Algeria. I designate one base in Tunisia and move them up so they can contribute from T2.
The directives are fairly obvious. Tac air and superiority goes to Sicily, set up naval patrols around the 2 main invasion sites. Another group of naval air is in action off Sardinia and the Strategic Bombers start their campaign of destroying ports and rail yards.
This shows the Sicily part of the operation in more detail:
Air Execution: Northern Europe
So what happened? On first sight, pretty disastrous, 850 planes lost and 1170 damaged.
WiTW provides you with a wealth of data that allows you to evaluate the air war. Even if you play relatively hands off, you really need to make use of this.
For a start you can spot if a given mission did not take place. Here the US 9th airforce didn't as it believed it had too few aircraft, something I can adjust in T2. Equally its clear (and was predictable) that the US 8th airforce over Bremerhaven had a very time of it.
You can open out the details of each mission to see what happened. This shows the impact of the Stirlings in France, which was ok, so for the moment I'll carry on bombing by night.
Bomber Command did a better job at Cologne.
If we look at 8 Airforce in more detail, for all those losses, they did do a lot of damage
Now we can go to the battle site, either via the map or the command report, and look at more detail.
Here's the worst raid (for US losses), so the lack of escorts was fatal. Till they are ready, what I may try to do is raise the altitude (at a loss of efficiency) and see if that improves things.
Working between the commander's report and on-map battlesites will tell you a lot. Where did they suffer their heaviest losses? Where are their fighters intercepting your bombers?
Air Execution: Southern Europe
None of those really stands out. Looking at the details, and on-map, I'm happy enough with the strategic airwar. Critically I have taken control of the air over the invasion sites;
Men Messing about in Boats: Southern Europe
I'm going to adapt something I tried before and make a relatively weak invasion of Sicily. I'm going to weaken it by re-assigning XXX Corps to just above the toe of Italy. If this works I may trap a number of German units in the south and I've found this to be less well defended than around Salerno. It will be supported by two waves of airborne, one for the invasion turn and one the turn after to cut the rail on across the Crati. This also avoids the risk of losing British paras in Sicily, something that seems to happen about 50% of the time.
The other invasion is planned for western Sardinia, again land and paras will be used.
At a command level, what I will do is to use the US 7 Army to control the invasions of Sardinia and Corsica and a later invasion near Rome. The British 8 Army and US 5 Army are landing in Sicily but I'll also use 5 Army to control any invasions in S Italy. This helps in allocating Support Units and also keeping command lines as simple as possible. Unlike in WiTE, there is no real excuse in WiTW for accepting combat command malus due to confusion at the Corps/Army level.
I'm moving 4 Infantry Divisions from the UK to the Med. They will help provide follow up forces for the secondary invasions as well as the core of the later planned landings.
And here we go
Future updates won't be so long, but it seems worthwhile to explore what I am trying do as much as present the actual outcomes.
And since I do like pictures, heres one to be going on with. Since I suspect I won't win, here is the likely end of game position:
-
JocMeister
- Posts: 8258
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:03 am
- Location: Sweden
RE: Turn 1: 3 – 9 July 1943
Fantastic AAR Loki! Very informative! [:)]
Concerning the Sterlings: Don´t you think you are better off hitting manpower in Germany with them? You get VPs for that which you don´t get from rail/ports in France. Very good idea to convert some FBs to bombers early on. Never thought of that. Now that I´m in 44 I would have loved some more Typhoons! [:)]
Concerning the Sterlings: Don´t you think you are better off hitting manpower in Germany with them? You get VPs for that which you don´t get from rail/ports in France. Very good idea to convert some FBs to bombers early on. Never thought of that. Now that I´m in 44 I would have loved some more Typhoons! [:)]
RE: Turn 1: 3 – 9 July 1943
Nice job, I learned a few things!
Probably too late, but you don't want to go straight in at Oristano. The reason is that landing will not produce a temporary port. It would be better to land just to the north; that would create the temp airfield and port, and still allow instant repair.
The risk with that is that the Germans will grab Oristano and lock you out, but it's risky for them to keep units on Sardinia very long
Probably too late, but you don't want to go straight in at Oristano. The reason is that landing will not produce a temporary port. It would be better to land just to the north; that would create the temp airfield and port, and still allow instant repair.
The risk with that is that the Germans will grab Oristano and lock you out, but it's risky for them to keep units on Sardinia very long
RE: Turn 1: 3 – 9 July 1943
Good stuff as always [8D] I am really enjoying your AARS Loki. I have been reading your adventures as the Russians in WITE.
RE: Turn 1: 3 – 9 July 1943
One thing I do with 8th is target hamburg with everything I have.
Then on the next turn target 3 cities with three separate strikes of 200+ bombers and set all 3 outbound routes to the same hex's.
When they get close to the coast send them to their target's.
I could be wrong but my a2a losses seem less,maybe the enemy air controllers get confused.
Then on the next turn target 3 cities with three separate strikes of 200+ bombers and set all 3 outbound routes to the same hex's.
When they get close to the coast send them to their target's.
I could be wrong but my a2a losses seem less,maybe the enemy air controllers get confused.
RE: Turn 1: 3 – 9 July 1943
Daylight city raids at 21K altitude can be very costly.
Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development
RE: Turn 1: 3 – 9 July 1943
Feedback
One general comment, I had actually played T2 before the first post was ready, so its not a case of ignoring the comments, more that I had already made even more mistakes. Compared to WiTE, once you have things organised as you want, I do find that WiTW is relatively quick to play, especially the ground phase.
glad its useful
Having played to the early 44 I ended up realising you don't need that many conventional fighters bt do have a lack of FB who can operate as bombers. My instinct is that most UK/US FB can look after themselves in air combat so there is less need to escort them.
Stirlings I took the basic idea from Carlkay (he adds them to Tac Air). I found that without them, the heavier bombers still gained enough VP for it to be no real problem. My logic is I often find myself short of AD for the Tac Air so best leave then in Bomber Command. It also gives me a ready tool for my ports and trains bombing strategy.
I should have remembered that, so I shifted the target for T3. No great loss as I didn't want to make that landing till I was sure I had control over southern Italy.
At first I was really unsure that WiTW could be a fun game, in truth its a work of genius. If it lacks the scale of the Great Patriotic War it doesn't lack for really interesting interactions between game systems and the way you have to plan so far ahead
My feeling so far is that managing 8 Air is much more tricky than Bomber Command. If you stick to night bombing, have reasonable escorts and swap targets over time that seems to take care of itself.
But 8 Air, its clear you can have monumental disasters. I'm certainly swapping targets and trying out putting them all onto the same target.
Yep, I think I've just provided plenty of empirical evidence. [:@]
At the moment I think I am in the dangerous (to myself) stage of the air war. I still rely on the default computer settings when I'm not sure if there is any merit to changing things, but I'm also playing around at the micro level for some operations. The results are sometimes less than impressive but think you do learn a lot doing it this way.
One general comment, I had actually played T2 before the first post was ready, so its not a case of ignoring the comments, more that I had already made even more mistakes. Compared to WiTE, once you have things organised as you want, I do find that WiTW is relatively quick to play, especially the ground phase.
ORIGINAL: JocMeister
Fantastic AAR Loki! Very informative! [:)]
Concerning the Sterlings: Don´t you think you are better off hitting manpower in Germany with them? You get VPs for that which you don´t get from rail/ports in France. Very good idea to convert some FBs to bombers early on. Never thought of that. Now that I´m in 44 I would have loved some more Typhoons! [:)]
glad its useful
Having played to the early 44 I ended up realising you don't need that many conventional fighters bt do have a lack of FB who can operate as bombers. My instinct is that most UK/US FB can look after themselves in air combat so there is less need to escort them.
Stirlings I took the basic idea from Carlkay (he adds them to Tac Air). I found that without them, the heavier bombers still gained enough VP for it to be no real problem. My logic is I often find myself short of AD for the Tac Air so best leave then in Bomber Command. It also gives me a ready tool for my ports and trains bombing strategy.
ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Nice job, I learned a few things!
Probably too late, but you don't want to go straight in at Oristano. The reason is that landing will not produce a temporary port. It would be better to land just to the north; that would create the temp airfield and port, and still allow instant repair.
The risk with that is that the Germans will grab Oristano and lock you out, but it's risky for them to keep units on Sardinia very long
I should have remembered that, so I shifted the target for T3. No great loss as I didn't want to make that landing till I was sure I had control over southern Italy.
ORIGINAL: Aces8
Good stuff as always [8D] I am really enjoying your AARS Loki. I have been reading your adventures as the Russians in WITE.
At first I was really unsure that WiTW could be a fun game, in truth its a work of genius. If it lacks the scale of the Great Patriotic War it doesn't lack for really interesting interactions between game systems and the way you have to plan so far ahead
ORIGINAL: barkorn45
One thing I do with 8th is target hamburg with everything I have.
Then on the next turn target 3 cities with three separate strikes of 200+ bombers and set all 3 outbound routes to the same hex's.
When they get close to the coast send them to their target's.
I could be wrong but my a2a losses seem less,maybe the enemy air controllers get confused.
My feeling so far is that managing 8 Air is much more tricky than Bomber Command. If you stick to night bombing, have reasonable escorts and swap targets over time that seems to take care of itself.
But 8 Air, its clear you can have monumental disasters. I'm certainly swapping targets and trying out putting them all onto the same target.
ORIGINAL: Helpless
Daylight city raids at 21K altitude can be very costly.
Yep, I think I've just provided plenty of empirical evidence. [:@]
At the moment I think I am in the dangerous (to myself) stage of the air war. I still rely on the default computer settings when I'm not sure if there is any merit to changing things, but I'm also playing around at the micro level for some operations. The results are sometimes less than impressive but think you do learn a lot doing it this way.
Turn 2: 10 – 16 July 1943
Turn 2: 10-16 July 1943
As expected, the landings in Sicily went in without too many losses but the Germans had managed to build up quite impressive levels of interdiction.
I'll shift the Malta air group to air superiority over the sea in an attempt to maintain control.
Other bits of housekeeping. I always do air admin first (more a habit from WiTE where its best to do this before any air interaction can occur). I'm setting air groups with morale <60 or fatigue of 15+ to rest. Not surprisingly after its bruising over Bremerhaven, a sizeable chunk of the US 8th Air Force needs a break. Taking losses, both actual and as damaged aircraft, will lead to falls in air morale. Low morale feeds into very poor performance, so there is no point pushing such units, unless it is completely essential.
VP and the related charts are always worth scanning. Check out any trends or variations but for the first turn this seems fairly normal.
Checking over the other fields, I note my supply stores are down. No need to panic, this maybe simply due to all those aircraft relocations and supply catching up, but something to keep an eye on.
Air Planning: Europe
Mostly I'm going to leave the northern European part of the air orders as they were. But need to pay attention either where it went wrong (8 Air) or nothing happened (9 Air).
First good news, moving their escorts means there is now some protection. With that in mind, I shift one group to include Bremen, the other (with less planes) carries on hitting Kiel.
I also adjust the air superiority boxes. Its a really good idea to look at the combat reports to see where German interceptors are active and swap your own missions around to try and catch them.
While doing this, I double checked why 9 Airforce was not joining in.
Uhuh, told it to operate too far away from its only unit, so I adjusted that to include the region off Dover where German fighters have been active.
Air Planning: Med
One thing I find incredibly useful is to check who can't be used and why. This was reviewing the tactical air group. I'm not interested in those without a * (at least they are involved somewhere). Not much I can do now, but once airbases fall on Sicily, I'll move a number of the shorter range planes to the island.
The other change was to give some strategic bombers a mission to bomb ports and rail yards around Brundisium. The others carry on hitting Messina and around Naples.
Results
Overall my total losses were down to 555 (972 damaged).
US 8 Air Force was hit hard again, although it did do a reasonable amount of damage. Also its escorts inflicted losses on the German fighters. The problem is not so much over the targets as German interdiction on the route in/out.
As mentioned above, I find this screen invaluable for planning.
Specifically, at the moment the point where the German fighters are doing their interception is out of the reach of most allied fighters ... so its informative, but I can't do anything about it.
Bomber Command is making steady progress, 1-2% damage per raid and inflicting some ongoing damage on the Channel Ports.
Fighter Command's air superiority missions are doing a fairly decent job at causing attrition to the Luftwaffe. I lost 40 planes and shot down 24 … think that is a trade off in my long term favour.
In the Med, generally more successful.
I'll cancel the Ground Support mission for next turn, this just seems to be a way to lock up planes that really are better used on the Ground attack mission, the exception is if you know for sure there will be heavy fighting.
Strategic Bombing Logic
I'm finding managing the strategic airwar one of the most interesting parts of WiTW. What could have been an exercise in tedium has become a real challenge (I suspect for both sides as with the Germans you have to guess where the attacks will come and how to set up your defences). So here's my logic:
Follow the VP … these are an attempt to model parts of the game that are missing such as the Battle of the Atlantic and the impact of the V1/2 on morale. As the Allies you can't afford a massive VP deficit. The focus on manpower is dictated by VP and efficiency, as well as a neat way to make you do something that has been a subject of considerable contention.
Hit the economy … This is why I put HI on the list. Its the cornerstone of all production (supply, ammo, replacement elements, specialist planes and vehicles). Also Fuel and Oil. The payback is slow but by mid-1944 you need the German reaction to be slowed.
Hit ports … here its worth bearing in mind that naval interdiction as such lasts a week, a damaged port harms German interdiction over the longer term
Hit Rail Yards … similar, interdiction is for the week, wrecking the basis for the German rail net gives long term benefits. First they have less rail capacity, that means they are forced to start operating in separate fronts rather than able to transfer units easily.
Secondly, in a huge improvement over WiTE, if you want to unload units from trains it is so much quicker to do this at a working rail yard than in a field. In this sense a lack of functioning rail yards can add 1-2 turns to a long range redeployment of an armoured/motorised formation.
So if you reduce the rail yards in Italy to rubble, the Germans will be much less able to respond as well as hitting supply flows.
Onto the land
As mentioned, I'm going to send about 6 divisions and 2 corps from the UK to the Med. That will give me enough to take Sardinia and allow early build up for the landings near to Rome.
On Sicily, the Axis are falling back. I've managed to trap one Italian division and take Catania. Have also moved a number of fighter squadrons to the airbases around Note and Siracusa.
I've taken 2 of the amphib forces back to N Africa, the other 2 will do to channel in reinforcements and I'll end up using one of them to cross over at Messina.
Nothing surprising so far.
So time for the promised image. I will start putting in pictures of Shermans et al, but first an insight into why the Red Army will win the race to Berlin. Yep, trained cats, not something you see every day (and never in my household)
but, just to keep to the proper focus, here is an image of British Tanks, queuing politely:
As expected, the landings in Sicily went in without too many losses but the Germans had managed to build up quite impressive levels of interdiction.
I'll shift the Malta air group to air superiority over the sea in an attempt to maintain control.
Other bits of housekeeping. I always do air admin first (more a habit from WiTE where its best to do this before any air interaction can occur). I'm setting air groups with morale <60 or fatigue of 15+ to rest. Not surprisingly after its bruising over Bremerhaven, a sizeable chunk of the US 8th Air Force needs a break. Taking losses, both actual and as damaged aircraft, will lead to falls in air morale. Low morale feeds into very poor performance, so there is no point pushing such units, unless it is completely essential.
VP and the related charts are always worth scanning. Check out any trends or variations but for the first turn this seems fairly normal.
Checking over the other fields, I note my supply stores are down. No need to panic, this maybe simply due to all those aircraft relocations and supply catching up, but something to keep an eye on.
Air Planning: Europe
Mostly I'm going to leave the northern European part of the air orders as they were. But need to pay attention either where it went wrong (8 Air) or nothing happened (9 Air).
First good news, moving their escorts means there is now some protection. With that in mind, I shift one group to include Bremen, the other (with less planes) carries on hitting Kiel.
I also adjust the air superiority boxes. Its a really good idea to look at the combat reports to see where German interceptors are active and swap your own missions around to try and catch them.
While doing this, I double checked why 9 Airforce was not joining in.
Uhuh, told it to operate too far away from its only unit, so I adjusted that to include the region off Dover where German fighters have been active.
Air Planning: Med
One thing I find incredibly useful is to check who can't be used and why. This was reviewing the tactical air group. I'm not interested in those without a * (at least they are involved somewhere). Not much I can do now, but once airbases fall on Sicily, I'll move a number of the shorter range planes to the island.
The other change was to give some strategic bombers a mission to bomb ports and rail yards around Brundisium. The others carry on hitting Messina and around Naples.
Results
Overall my total losses were down to 555 (972 damaged).
US 8 Air Force was hit hard again, although it did do a reasonable amount of damage. Also its escorts inflicted losses on the German fighters. The problem is not so much over the targets as German interdiction on the route in/out.
As mentioned above, I find this screen invaluable for planning.
Specifically, at the moment the point where the German fighters are doing their interception is out of the reach of most allied fighters ... so its informative, but I can't do anything about it.
Bomber Command is making steady progress, 1-2% damage per raid and inflicting some ongoing damage on the Channel Ports.
Fighter Command's air superiority missions are doing a fairly decent job at causing attrition to the Luftwaffe. I lost 40 planes and shot down 24 … think that is a trade off in my long term favour.
In the Med, generally more successful.
I'll cancel the Ground Support mission for next turn, this just seems to be a way to lock up planes that really are better used on the Ground attack mission, the exception is if you know for sure there will be heavy fighting.
Strategic Bombing Logic
I'm finding managing the strategic airwar one of the most interesting parts of WiTW. What could have been an exercise in tedium has become a real challenge (I suspect for both sides as with the Germans you have to guess where the attacks will come and how to set up your defences). So here's my logic:
Follow the VP … these are an attempt to model parts of the game that are missing such as the Battle of the Atlantic and the impact of the V1/2 on morale. As the Allies you can't afford a massive VP deficit. The focus on manpower is dictated by VP and efficiency, as well as a neat way to make you do something that has been a subject of considerable contention.
Hit the economy … This is why I put HI on the list. Its the cornerstone of all production (supply, ammo, replacement elements, specialist planes and vehicles). Also Fuel and Oil. The payback is slow but by mid-1944 you need the German reaction to be slowed.
Hit ports … here its worth bearing in mind that naval interdiction as such lasts a week, a damaged port harms German interdiction over the longer term
Hit Rail Yards … similar, interdiction is for the week, wrecking the basis for the German rail net gives long term benefits. First they have less rail capacity, that means they are forced to start operating in separate fronts rather than able to transfer units easily.
Secondly, in a huge improvement over WiTE, if you want to unload units from trains it is so much quicker to do this at a working rail yard than in a field. In this sense a lack of functioning rail yards can add 1-2 turns to a long range redeployment of an armoured/motorised formation.
So if you reduce the rail yards in Italy to rubble, the Germans will be much less able to respond as well as hitting supply flows.
Onto the land
As mentioned, I'm going to send about 6 divisions and 2 corps from the UK to the Med. That will give me enough to take Sardinia and allow early build up for the landings near to Rome.
On Sicily, the Axis are falling back. I've managed to trap one Italian division and take Catania. Have also moved a number of fighter squadrons to the airbases around Note and Siracusa.
I've taken 2 of the amphib forces back to N Africa, the other 2 will do to channel in reinforcements and I'll end up using one of them to cross over at Messina.
Nothing surprising so far.
So time for the promised image. I will start putting in pictures of Shermans et al, but first an insight into why the Red Army will win the race to Berlin. Yep, trained cats, not something you see every day (and never in my household)
but, just to keep to the proper focus, here is an image of British Tanks, queuing politely:
RE: Turn 2: 10 – 16 July 1943
Those Red Cats will face the Führer's FURRY!!!
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"A word was said - a mare is standing by the fence."
RE: Turn 2: 10 – 16 July 1943
ORIGINAL: KWG
I'd just settle for simple obedience off ours ...
Turns 3-4: 17 July – 30 July 1943
Turns 3-4: 17 July – 30 July 1943
I'm going to conflate these turns as both were about small iterations in operational planning rather than anything major.
Air War: Northern Europe
On T3 I made two changes to previous tactics.
First I combined all of US 8 Airforce into a single set of raids on Hamburg. I raised the altitude to limit losses and left the lower level planes to rest.
Second, I sent one of my three groups of strategic bombers in Bomber Command to hit Berlin. I like to vary targets with Bomber Command, keeping one group active over the Ruhr but moving the others around.
The outcome was pretty good, only 328 planes lost and 8 Air only lost 42. The advantage of this is it reduces the number of squadrons having to be rested for poor morale and meant that on T4 I had around 90% of the units to deploy.
On T4 I decided to split 8 Air Force into two groups and stick to high altitude bombing in Germany with the B-17s while the lower altitude B-24/26s went for ports and rail yards in France. This worked out well with very limited losses (they were both escorted and flying in an area of RAF fighter superiority missions).
Not least I decided it was time to risk bombing much deeper, starting with Stettin.
That didn't work out too well. Probably too high to actually hit specific factories so need to think about the actual tactics again.
Bomber Command carried on swapping targets. One group hit the Ruhr, the others moved onto new targets this week.
The other change was a deliberate shift by part of Tactical Air. I'd spotted an airbase at Arnhem stuffed with nasty German fighters so swapped the group that had been raiding in the Netherlands to hit just the one target with the goal of the airbase.
I was pretty pleased with that.
Total losses were 328 shot down (again) and 669 damaged.
The other pleasing thing was I have stopped German fighters from trying to catch my bombers over the channel, in fact they seem to have abandoned northern France.
Air War: Southern Europe
This saw less changes. The naval air are keeping control around Sicily and Sardinia and starting to prepare for the second wave of invasions. Tactical Air is mainly active around Messina, and air superiority is covering for both these targets. Strategic Air is going for ports and railyards from Brindisi to north of Rome.
Outcomes
Well by T4 this shows total losses:
A trade off of 1.5:1 in planes and 2:1 in pilots seems pretty good (I'm used to the VVS losing at a ratio of 5/6:1).
VP remains steady. 4 per turn from the strategic bombing, -3 per turn from U-boats, a total of -46 at this stage is better than I've managed so far.
Supply stores for the allies are fine but the Germans are showing signs of some emerging problems
On the land
Not much to say. First clash since the landings saw the US 2nd Armoured capture Sciacce. Have landed a couple more divisions (from those moved out of the UK) and its pretty clear the Germans are preparing to defend Messina and Reggio Calabria.
This suits me as I'll clear out the west of the Sicily and then land at the top of the toe.
Third landing is planned around Civitavecchia. This is designed to put ashore 5 divisions immediately and a 6/7 more as a second wave.
If it works, it should lead to the Germans giving me Rome before the autumn rains which will be an acceptable return for 1943 in Italy.
And here's a picture, British troops learning to garden in the dark ... or in reality the far more serious business of mine clearance.
I'm going to conflate these turns as both were about small iterations in operational planning rather than anything major.
Air War: Northern Europe
On T3 I made two changes to previous tactics.
First I combined all of US 8 Airforce into a single set of raids on Hamburg. I raised the altitude to limit losses and left the lower level planes to rest.
Second, I sent one of my three groups of strategic bombers in Bomber Command to hit Berlin. I like to vary targets with Bomber Command, keeping one group active over the Ruhr but moving the others around.
The outcome was pretty good, only 328 planes lost and 8 Air only lost 42. The advantage of this is it reduces the number of squadrons having to be rested for poor morale and meant that on T4 I had around 90% of the units to deploy.
On T4 I decided to split 8 Air Force into two groups and stick to high altitude bombing in Germany with the B-17s while the lower altitude B-24/26s went for ports and rail yards in France. This worked out well with very limited losses (they were both escorted and flying in an area of RAF fighter superiority missions).
Not least I decided it was time to risk bombing much deeper, starting with Stettin.
That didn't work out too well. Probably too high to actually hit specific factories so need to think about the actual tactics again.
Bomber Command carried on swapping targets. One group hit the Ruhr, the others moved onto new targets this week.
The other change was a deliberate shift by part of Tactical Air. I'd spotted an airbase at Arnhem stuffed with nasty German fighters so swapped the group that had been raiding in the Netherlands to hit just the one target with the goal of the airbase.
I was pretty pleased with that.
Total losses were 328 shot down (again) and 669 damaged.
The other pleasing thing was I have stopped German fighters from trying to catch my bombers over the channel, in fact they seem to have abandoned northern France.
Air War: Southern Europe
This saw less changes. The naval air are keeping control around Sicily and Sardinia and starting to prepare for the second wave of invasions. Tactical Air is mainly active around Messina, and air superiority is covering for both these targets. Strategic Air is going for ports and railyards from Brindisi to north of Rome.
Outcomes
Well by T4 this shows total losses:
A trade off of 1.5:1 in planes and 2:1 in pilots seems pretty good (I'm used to the VVS losing at a ratio of 5/6:1).
VP remains steady. 4 per turn from the strategic bombing, -3 per turn from U-boats, a total of -46 at this stage is better than I've managed so far.
Supply stores for the allies are fine but the Germans are showing signs of some emerging problems
On the land
Not much to say. First clash since the landings saw the US 2nd Armoured capture Sciacce. Have landed a couple more divisions (from those moved out of the UK) and its pretty clear the Germans are preparing to defend Messina and Reggio Calabria.
This suits me as I'll clear out the west of the Sicily and then land at the top of the toe.
Third landing is planned around Civitavecchia. This is designed to put ashore 5 divisions immediately and a 6/7 more as a second wave.
If it works, it should lead to the Germans giving me Rome before the autumn rains which will be an acceptable return for 1943 in Italy.
And here's a picture, British troops learning to garden in the dark ... or in reality the far more serious business of mine clearance.
T5-6: 31 July – 13 August
T5-6: 31 July – 13 August
Again, I'll conflate two turns, this roughly fits how I am playing the game and avoids too much detail.
For T5 my main actions were a lot of fussing about the load outs for the bombers. The Stirlings that have been hitting France I swapped from the usual British bomber emphasis on incendiaries to heavier bombs. Equally I changed a lot of the coastal command air to mines. Some of this is trying to guess at what works best.
Overall I was pretty happy with US 8 Air, it did some serious damage to the U-Boats and suffered few losses
In addition, sending the lighter bombers to hit the ports and rail net of France seemed to pay off
Tracking axis fighters, made me plan to move one air superiority box to the Thames region and to decide to investigate if I should swap fighter command over to using drop boxes for the extra range.
For T6, the VP situation remains fairly static. I'm gaining 4 per turn for city bombing and losing 3 per turn for U-Boats (latter is a bit frustrating as I have managed to bomb most factories).
Anyway, as above decided to see if I could improve fighter cover, especially over the eastern Netherlands by adding drop tanks to most fighters.
All in all this paid off as I had none out of range and set up more aggressive missions
For the strategic bombers, 8 Air is still hitting the U-Boat yards and Bomber Command is touring around Germany. I decided to risk letting BC bomb France at daytime as I have a lot of fighters active.
On Sicily, I set aside two of the newly captured airbases for the Strategic Air Force. From here, they can start to bomb Ploesti.
The rest of the Med missions are predictable. Trying to isolate Palermo, indication all up Calabria and strategic bombing of ports and rail yards
The bombing of France was far more devastating by day, and with minimal losses
But that was a rare bit of good news. Overall I lost 546 planes, Bomber Command (at night) had a disaster over Bremen (clearly well protected) and 2 Tactical Command took a lot of losses. Studying the pattern I need to gather the level bombers into their own raids and attack at higher altitude (or transfer them to Bomber Command).
8 US Air took a pounding at Danzig and Poznan so I need to suspend attempts to hit the more distant targets for now. Good thing is they left a trail of damage behind them.
My new tactics with Fighter Command seemed to pay off. At the least German planes were being challenged over the Netherlands.
Finally, on Sicily, the Axis have fallen back to the main ports with relatively limited losses. What I will do is to finish off Palermo and Trapani before making invasions of Sardinia and south of Naples. This will free up at least one more corps as a second wave and give me time to establish air superiority using the new Sicilian bases.
Oh and here we see Scottish troops conquering parts of Sicily …
Again, I'll conflate two turns, this roughly fits how I am playing the game and avoids too much detail.
For T5 my main actions were a lot of fussing about the load outs for the bombers. The Stirlings that have been hitting France I swapped from the usual British bomber emphasis on incendiaries to heavier bombs. Equally I changed a lot of the coastal command air to mines. Some of this is trying to guess at what works best.
Overall I was pretty happy with US 8 Air, it did some serious damage to the U-Boats and suffered few losses
In addition, sending the lighter bombers to hit the ports and rail net of France seemed to pay off
Tracking axis fighters, made me plan to move one air superiority box to the Thames region and to decide to investigate if I should swap fighter command over to using drop boxes for the extra range.
For T6, the VP situation remains fairly static. I'm gaining 4 per turn for city bombing and losing 3 per turn for U-Boats (latter is a bit frustrating as I have managed to bomb most factories).
Anyway, as above decided to see if I could improve fighter cover, especially over the eastern Netherlands by adding drop tanks to most fighters.
All in all this paid off as I had none out of range and set up more aggressive missions
For the strategic bombers, 8 Air is still hitting the U-Boat yards and Bomber Command is touring around Germany. I decided to risk letting BC bomb France at daytime as I have a lot of fighters active.
On Sicily, I set aside two of the newly captured airbases for the Strategic Air Force. From here, they can start to bomb Ploesti.
The rest of the Med missions are predictable. Trying to isolate Palermo, indication all up Calabria and strategic bombing of ports and rail yards
The bombing of France was far more devastating by day, and with minimal losses
But that was a rare bit of good news. Overall I lost 546 planes, Bomber Command (at night) had a disaster over Bremen (clearly well protected) and 2 Tactical Command took a lot of losses. Studying the pattern I need to gather the level bombers into their own raids and attack at higher altitude (or transfer them to Bomber Command).
8 US Air took a pounding at Danzig and Poznan so I need to suspend attempts to hit the more distant targets for now. Good thing is they left a trail of damage behind them.
My new tactics with Fighter Command seemed to pay off. At the least German planes were being challenged over the Netherlands.
Finally, on Sicily, the Axis have fallen back to the main ports with relatively limited losses. What I will do is to finish off Palermo and Trapani before making invasions of Sardinia and south of Naples. This will free up at least one more corps as a second wave and give me time to establish air superiority using the new Sicilian bases.
Oh and here we see Scottish troops conquering parts of Sicily …
Turns 7-8 (14 August – 27 August 1943)
Turns 7-8 (14 August – 27 August 1943) ... outwitted by the AI
Again I'll conflate turns and stick to the main issues, mostly about attempts to ensure the best use out of the Allied airforce.
I also find its about this stage of the game that my mindset shifts from 'take it carefully, I have lots of time' to 'winter is almost on us'. Or more strictly that I need to start thinking about how to move the transports back to the UK.
After T6, I've hit most of the U-Boat factories (VP loss is down to 1 a turn) so decided to ensure that the Strategic bombers stayed with fighter protection.
Of note, I've allocated the B-25s from 8 Airforce to hitting railway yards in France – particularly at Paris.
In the south, I launched the first raid on Ploesti using some of the B-17s moved to Sicily in T6. Other than that swapped from bombing around Brindisi to hitting ports in Sardinia to prepare for that invasion.
I also spotted a lot of German fighters at Reggio Calabria so committed a small group of the B-24/25 to bomb the air base. Tactical air is concentrating on interdiction and rail attacks and taking fairly heavy losses.
Net outcome was 338 planes lost, no missions were particularly obviously leading to high losses (apart from Tac Air at Messina). Had one of the few times when Bomber Command actually managed to do some damage.
On the ground I quickly managed to take Palermo and Trapani, next turn I'll move those 2 corps back to the transports at Gela so they can support the next wave of amphibious landings.
With the west of the island secure, the British XIII Corps attacked Messina (decided this would allow Tac Air to rest as I'll need them pretty soon).
Since there are some discussions as to whether the combat engine works, thought it might be useful to show this in detail. The British divisions all had fatigue of around 25, experience at 66 and morale at 65 before attacking. So reasonably rested, reasonably competent.
As you can see, I won the battle with some ease – not least the Italians had a lot of disrupted units from pre-battle air interdiction
I can't stress enough how important disruption is, it effectively means that element does not fight in that turn and can also lead to high fatigue as the unit recovers from disruption in later turns.
If we look at who actually fought, the Italians performed as I'd expect. Well dug in, favourable terrain, they handed out a lot of damage. Their main problem was a lack of long range elements, so they took even more disruption/damage in the early stages of the battle to add to their problems with my air attacks.
Of the British elements, again I can't see anything unusual. The longer range guns did their job by inflicting disruptions, the infantry did the serious damage. The tanks were a bit useless but then this is urban terrain and level #3 forts where they have a significant malus.
Anyway by the end of the turn, Sicily is mine.
With this resolved, I decide to start the invasion of Sardinia so those landings will happen on T8.
In terms of VP, much as expected. As above, I am now only losing 1 per turn due to U-Boats but my overall bombing effort may have dipped due to my obsession with French railways (have only gained 3 VP this turn and last).
With Sicily in my hands, I want to create a choke point on the Crati. At worst this will delay any German response to my landings at Scalea, at best it may give me a decent pocket.
Only problem is that after its battering at Messina, most of Tac Air is resting this turn.
Reflecting lower levels of activity in the Med, my overall air losses were down to 222. No real points of interest in the pattern of raids.
That is until I started scanning the interdiction patterns.
Now I think that is clever by the AI, its in effect prevented any move from N Africa to Italy, so my relative control of the coastal waters at Scalea is completely negated. Need to switch both air superiority and naval air to contest that.
Sardinia went fairly well. Took some air bases that the Germans were using (suspect this is linked to their naval air actions above) and I'll commit another corps next turn. Goal is to make some progress and be in a position to take advantage of any Italian surrender.
While I am stuck on Sicily, the Red Army is practising road directions to Berlin
Again I'll conflate turns and stick to the main issues, mostly about attempts to ensure the best use out of the Allied airforce.
I also find its about this stage of the game that my mindset shifts from 'take it carefully, I have lots of time' to 'winter is almost on us'. Or more strictly that I need to start thinking about how to move the transports back to the UK.
After T6, I've hit most of the U-Boat factories (VP loss is down to 1 a turn) so decided to ensure that the Strategic bombers stayed with fighter protection.
Of note, I've allocated the B-25s from 8 Airforce to hitting railway yards in France – particularly at Paris.
In the south, I launched the first raid on Ploesti using some of the B-17s moved to Sicily in T6. Other than that swapped from bombing around Brindisi to hitting ports in Sardinia to prepare for that invasion.
I also spotted a lot of German fighters at Reggio Calabria so committed a small group of the B-24/25 to bomb the air base. Tactical air is concentrating on interdiction and rail attacks and taking fairly heavy losses.
Net outcome was 338 planes lost, no missions were particularly obviously leading to high losses (apart from Tac Air at Messina). Had one of the few times when Bomber Command actually managed to do some damage.
On the ground I quickly managed to take Palermo and Trapani, next turn I'll move those 2 corps back to the transports at Gela so they can support the next wave of amphibious landings.
With the west of the island secure, the British XIII Corps attacked Messina (decided this would allow Tac Air to rest as I'll need them pretty soon).
Since there are some discussions as to whether the combat engine works, thought it might be useful to show this in detail. The British divisions all had fatigue of around 25, experience at 66 and morale at 65 before attacking. So reasonably rested, reasonably competent.
As you can see, I won the battle with some ease – not least the Italians had a lot of disrupted units from pre-battle air interdiction
I can't stress enough how important disruption is, it effectively means that element does not fight in that turn and can also lead to high fatigue as the unit recovers from disruption in later turns.
If we look at who actually fought, the Italians performed as I'd expect. Well dug in, favourable terrain, they handed out a lot of damage. Their main problem was a lack of long range elements, so they took even more disruption/damage in the early stages of the battle to add to their problems with my air attacks.
Of the British elements, again I can't see anything unusual. The longer range guns did their job by inflicting disruptions, the infantry did the serious damage. The tanks were a bit useless but then this is urban terrain and level #3 forts where they have a significant malus.
Anyway by the end of the turn, Sicily is mine.
With this resolved, I decide to start the invasion of Sardinia so those landings will happen on T8.
In terms of VP, much as expected. As above, I am now only losing 1 per turn due to U-Boats but my overall bombing effort may have dipped due to my obsession with French railways (have only gained 3 VP this turn and last).
With Sicily in my hands, I want to create a choke point on the Crati. At worst this will delay any German response to my landings at Scalea, at best it may give me a decent pocket.
Only problem is that after its battering at Messina, most of Tac Air is resting this turn.
Reflecting lower levels of activity in the Med, my overall air losses were down to 222. No real points of interest in the pattern of raids.
That is until I started scanning the interdiction patterns.
Now I think that is clever by the AI, its in effect prevented any move from N Africa to Italy, so my relative control of the coastal waters at Scalea is completely negated. Need to switch both air superiority and naval air to contest that.
Sardinia went fairly well. Took some air bases that the Germans were using (suspect this is linked to their naval air actions above) and I'll commit another corps next turn. Goal is to make some progress and be in a position to take advantage of any Italian surrender.
While I am stuck on Sicily, the Red Army is practising road directions to Berlin
T9-10: 28 August – 10 September 1943
T9-10: 28 August – 10 September 1943
I added the new (beta) patch between T9 and 10 so I'll quickly discuss if the new night fighter values have made much difference.
On T9 around Sicily, my air actions are all building up for the planned invasion of Scalea. This may be a little far south but has the merit of being in range of shorter range aircraft based in Eastern or Northern Sicily. It should also dislodge the Germans from Reggio Calabria and start to set up an Italian surrender.
In Northern Europe, I've pulled back the US airforce from long range attacks and am operating within escort range. They are also going over the North Sea to avoid those fighter concentrations in the Netherlands.
Again, am using the lighter bombers for both Bomber Command and 8 Airforce in France or Belgium as part of my port and rail yard bombing campaign.
Overall losses were low at 216.
Fighter Command lost 23 (so it seems that the swap to drop tanks has had no serious impact), Bomber Command 42 (21 of which were lost in bombing in NE France and Belgium by day)
US 8 Air lost 15 (so better route choice and more escorts seemed to pay off).
Off Sicily, I've taken back control of the seas between Sicily and Sardinia.
I'll launch the invasion of the mainland on T10 as that will allow the units that took Palermo and Trapani another turn to recover. In Sardinia. British units reach the outskirts of Cagliari but don't attack this turn.
By T10, the VP score is settling down to +4 for bombing and and -2 for U-boats. I've shifted some raids of 8 Air from U-boats to manpower which may explain the variations in that respect (last time I had +3 for manpower. -1 for U-boats), but overall I think a net gain of +2 per turn between the two lines is good enough.
Since this is the new patch, in Northern Europe I was a little bit more cautious with the bombing pattern.
Probably need to be even more careful though as losses were up to 312. Bomber Command was the main source and suffered badly over the Ruhr (where I lost 72 planes)
8 Air was much as before, losing 25 planes, which was mostly down to a direct attack on the U-boat factories at Hannover
In Italy, a combination of Tac Air on land and Coastal Command has given me decent interdiction levels at Scalea. The Sicily-Sardinia gap remains under my control, so well worth the substantial diversion of effort.
On Sardinia, I decide to see if I can clear Cagliari quickly (2 fresh divisions landed this turn but won't be in position to help for at least one more turn). If it worked, this would have ended axis air interdiction off Sicily. Well it was close, but not enough. No tactical air to soften up the enemy, and tanks cope badly with level 3 forts. But with the fort down to level 1, I should be able to take the city next turn.
In terms of the details, no real surprises. Well dug in and well supported by artillery, the defenders inflicted a lot of disruption on my attacking units. In response, my artillery was much less effective and as at Messina the Shermans were not much use. Again, for some reason, the Stuarts performed better.
So with the seas secure and some degree of air control over the landing zone, its time to attack mainland Italy. The lead divisions are well prepared (I swapped targets on T1) and I have two corps of back up formations (plus more to come in next turn). It looks like there are 3 German and 1 Italian division on the Crati and I think there is a German PzGr division at Reggio Calabria (plus some Italian formations).
Just have to hope that landing well within the range of air support and after bombing the Italian rail system since the start of the game (see if Mussolini can make the trains run on time now), that this allows me to clear Southern Italy.
This time the image is at least relevant to the topic under discussion:
Hurricane with full ground attack equipment:
I added the new (beta) patch between T9 and 10 so I'll quickly discuss if the new night fighter values have made much difference.
On T9 around Sicily, my air actions are all building up for the planned invasion of Scalea. This may be a little far south but has the merit of being in range of shorter range aircraft based in Eastern or Northern Sicily. It should also dislodge the Germans from Reggio Calabria and start to set up an Italian surrender.
In Northern Europe, I've pulled back the US airforce from long range attacks and am operating within escort range. They are also going over the North Sea to avoid those fighter concentrations in the Netherlands.
Again, am using the lighter bombers for both Bomber Command and 8 Airforce in France or Belgium as part of my port and rail yard bombing campaign.
Overall losses were low at 216.
Fighter Command lost 23 (so it seems that the swap to drop tanks has had no serious impact), Bomber Command 42 (21 of which were lost in bombing in NE France and Belgium by day)
US 8 Air lost 15 (so better route choice and more escorts seemed to pay off).
Off Sicily, I've taken back control of the seas between Sicily and Sardinia.
I'll launch the invasion of the mainland on T10 as that will allow the units that took Palermo and Trapani another turn to recover. In Sardinia. British units reach the outskirts of Cagliari but don't attack this turn.
By T10, the VP score is settling down to +4 for bombing and and -2 for U-boats. I've shifted some raids of 8 Air from U-boats to manpower which may explain the variations in that respect (last time I had +3 for manpower. -1 for U-boats), but overall I think a net gain of +2 per turn between the two lines is good enough.
Since this is the new patch, in Northern Europe I was a little bit more cautious with the bombing pattern.
Probably need to be even more careful though as losses were up to 312. Bomber Command was the main source and suffered badly over the Ruhr (where I lost 72 planes)
8 Air was much as before, losing 25 planes, which was mostly down to a direct attack on the U-boat factories at Hannover
In Italy, a combination of Tac Air on land and Coastal Command has given me decent interdiction levels at Scalea. The Sicily-Sardinia gap remains under my control, so well worth the substantial diversion of effort.
On Sardinia, I decide to see if I can clear Cagliari quickly (2 fresh divisions landed this turn but won't be in position to help for at least one more turn). If it worked, this would have ended axis air interdiction off Sicily. Well it was close, but not enough. No tactical air to soften up the enemy, and tanks cope badly with level 3 forts. But with the fort down to level 1, I should be able to take the city next turn.
In terms of the details, no real surprises. Well dug in and well supported by artillery, the defenders inflicted a lot of disruption on my attacking units. In response, my artillery was much less effective and as at Messina the Shermans were not much use. Again, for some reason, the Stuarts performed better.
So with the seas secure and some degree of air control over the landing zone, its time to attack mainland Italy. The lead divisions are well prepared (I swapped targets on T1) and I have two corps of back up formations (plus more to come in next turn). It looks like there are 3 German and 1 Italian division on the Crati and I think there is a German PzGr division at Reggio Calabria (plus some Italian formations).
Just have to hope that landing well within the range of air support and after bombing the Italian rail system since the start of the game (see if Mussolini can make the trains run on time now), that this allows me to clear Southern Italy.
This time the image is at least relevant to the topic under discussion:
Hurricane with full ground attack equipment:
T11 11-17 September 1943
T11 11-17 September 1943
Since my rate of progress has slowed a bit (and have just started my first PBEM), this is a one turn update. However, a fairly eventful turn featuring Italy's surrender and my revised approach to strategic bombing.
In the med, almost all my air activity is set up to assist my landings at Scalea.
The only other missions are continuing naval patrols and air support off Western Sicily. Was glad I did this as during the air resolution phase, the Germans made a serious attempt to re-assert their control in that region.
Italian bombing campaign carries on hitting ports and railyards.
In northern Europe, the tactical campaign in France carried on as before (and this includes strategic bombing of rails and ports), but made some adjustments to the strategic war.
First I re-organised both 8 Air and Bomber Command into two sub-groups. Each included a recon element and the actual bombers. I also narrowed down my target ranges to 1-2 hexes.
The results seemed to really pay off. Overall I only lost 265 planes with no major disasters. Fighter Command is trading off losses with the luftwaffe over the Netherlands (I lost 20 and shot down 13), but the main difference was with Bomber Command.
Not a good time to live in Muenster, Now that has low levels of flak but relatively high manpower (which is why I choose it), but the last 2 raids after sustained recon were devastating. I also managed to do quite a bit of damage to the defending German fighters.
However, its not guaranteed. Results at Koblenz (same approach) were more predictable.
US 8 Air contributed, hit most of the German fuel production in Schleswig (which I guess partly answers that question?)
On reviewing the combat pattern, it was clear the German fighters have shifted to chase my bombers over the North Sea. Need to think again about routes.
VP shows a +3 for the bombing effort (4 for bombing, 1 lost for U-Boats), and overall is going fine for this stage – as much reflecting my lack of serious losses in the ground fighting.
With Italy surrendered, I quickly move a spare division into Ajaccio to secure the port. I'll clear Sardinia first and then redeploy those units to Corsica. On Sardinia, I clear Cagliari and try to catch as many German units as I can.
Recon indicated there is a still a German PG Division in Reggio Calabria which may be good news as it could end up in a pocket but for the moment it prevents any offensive off the island.
Landing at Scalea was reinforced and cut the link between Reggio Calabria and the north as well as occupying good defensive terrain around the landing area. I expect to be bottled up here till the next invasion dislodges the Germans again.
So that is yet another revision to my approach to strategic bombing and first evidence is good. Single hex (or very small) bombing blocks, and link a dedicated recon mission with each bombing group.
Oh, and here is a picture. Proof that the landing site at Scalea has been properly secured:
Since my rate of progress has slowed a bit (and have just started my first PBEM), this is a one turn update. However, a fairly eventful turn featuring Italy's surrender and my revised approach to strategic bombing.
In the med, almost all my air activity is set up to assist my landings at Scalea.
The only other missions are continuing naval patrols and air support off Western Sicily. Was glad I did this as during the air resolution phase, the Germans made a serious attempt to re-assert their control in that region.
Italian bombing campaign carries on hitting ports and railyards.
In northern Europe, the tactical campaign in France carried on as before (and this includes strategic bombing of rails and ports), but made some adjustments to the strategic war.
First I re-organised both 8 Air and Bomber Command into two sub-groups. Each included a recon element and the actual bombers. I also narrowed down my target ranges to 1-2 hexes.
The results seemed to really pay off. Overall I only lost 265 planes with no major disasters. Fighter Command is trading off losses with the luftwaffe over the Netherlands (I lost 20 and shot down 13), but the main difference was with Bomber Command.
Not a good time to live in Muenster, Now that has low levels of flak but relatively high manpower (which is why I choose it), but the last 2 raids after sustained recon were devastating. I also managed to do quite a bit of damage to the defending German fighters.
However, its not guaranteed. Results at Koblenz (same approach) were more predictable.
US 8 Air contributed, hit most of the German fuel production in Schleswig (which I guess partly answers that question?)
On reviewing the combat pattern, it was clear the German fighters have shifted to chase my bombers over the North Sea. Need to think again about routes.
VP shows a +3 for the bombing effort (4 for bombing, 1 lost for U-Boats), and overall is going fine for this stage – as much reflecting my lack of serious losses in the ground fighting.
With Italy surrendered, I quickly move a spare division into Ajaccio to secure the port. I'll clear Sardinia first and then redeploy those units to Corsica. On Sardinia, I clear Cagliari and try to catch as many German units as I can.
Recon indicated there is a still a German PG Division in Reggio Calabria which may be good news as it could end up in a pocket but for the moment it prevents any offensive off the island.
Landing at Scalea was reinforced and cut the link between Reggio Calabria and the north as well as occupying good defensive terrain around the landing area. I expect to be bottled up here till the next invasion dislodges the Germans again.
So that is yet another revision to my approach to strategic bombing and first evidence is good. Single hex (or very small) bombing blocks, and link a dedicated recon mission with each bombing group.
Oh, and here is a picture. Proof that the landing site at Scalea has been properly secured:
RE: T11 11-17 September 1943
If your having low bombing results, check your recon levels in the hex for the start of the air phase. Your going to be intercepted over the North Sea. Use Ftr Cmd and 2nd RAF Tac to find his planes and then send in ground strikes to push them back. Flying further out will become prohibitive as your fighter escorts can't travel as far.
RE: T11 11-17 September 1943
ORIGINAL: meklore61
If your having low bombing results, check your recon levels in the hex for the start of the air phase. Your going to be intercepted over the North Sea. Use Ftr Cmd and 2nd RAF Tac to find his planes and then send in ground strikes to push them back. Flying further out will become prohibitive as your fighter escorts can't travel as far.
I've been refining my recon strategy over the last couple of turms. One of those things where WiTE experience can catch you out as there its a case of point and see. But as in the next post, really starting to pay off.
As is using some of fighter command over the Netherlands looking for trouble with the Germans
Turns 12-13: 18 September – 2 October 1943
Turns 12-13: 18 September – 2 October 1943
Back to conflating turns as I had a bit more time to play.
Last turn I earned 5 VP for city bombing (so that very successful raid paid off) and lost 2 for U-Boats.
On T12 in Northern Europe I manually upgraded a lot of the B17-F so just ran one mission with 8 Air. But as you can see all my strategic bombing into Germany is now single hex and involves a designated recon mission.
In general it paid off. Overall losses were up a little from T11 to 320 but there were no stand out disasters. The heaviest losses were actually in fighter command (53) but for those I shot down 26 German fighters. 8 Airforce lost 45 bombers on the Lubeck raids. In the Med I am taking very few air losses – I fear the AI is reading Pelton's AARs as it seems to be saving its airforce for later.
The new approach for Bomber Command paid off again.
Its not just that relatively successful raids produce VP, they also build experience and in turn that leads to more effective bombing. The raid on Bielefeld was mostly done with Lancasters, Saarbrucken was a bit of mix of types.
Elements of Bomber Command and 8 Airforce carry on flattening the French rail system and ports.
Key to my improved performance was working out how to use air recon properly. In WiTE its much more simple, but this shows my coverage in France which is becoming very informative.
When I checked at the start of T13, I was down to +4 for city bombing but -1 for U-boats. So still a steady +3 per turn.
The Med bombing campaign is still mostly centred on protecting 5 Army in Italy. Elements of 7 Army are making steady progress in Sardinia and Corsica.
In northern Europe I switch strategic targets around but keep to the same operational approach.
Overall losses were down to 228
Bomber Command this time hit Kleeve (sorry Anne) and Saarbrucken (here I think adjusting the payload helped as does 2 weeks of sustained recon).
On the mainland, things are getting a bit of a problem. I am becoming very stretched, especially as there is a para division at Crotone and a Pzr+PzGr divisions in Reggio Calabria. I'm going to bomb both groups heavily but I need to secure my rear before pushing north (or risking the bulk of 7 Army landing near Rome). If I need to, I'll take elements of 8 Army by sea to the mainland and then they can support clearing those ports.
Once I clear Sardinia, I can do one of three things. The original plan was to act as a reserve for the Rome landings, but I can send some to Corsica to clear that or perhaps to help out 5 Army. Starting to become aware that the clock is ticking on the Italian campaign with bad weather on the way and I need those transports in the UK.
So after that cup of tea in the last post, a slightly more dramatic image this time:
Back to conflating turns as I had a bit more time to play.
Last turn I earned 5 VP for city bombing (so that very successful raid paid off) and lost 2 for U-Boats.
On T12 in Northern Europe I manually upgraded a lot of the B17-F so just ran one mission with 8 Air. But as you can see all my strategic bombing into Germany is now single hex and involves a designated recon mission.
In general it paid off. Overall losses were up a little from T11 to 320 but there were no stand out disasters. The heaviest losses were actually in fighter command (53) but for those I shot down 26 German fighters. 8 Airforce lost 45 bombers on the Lubeck raids. In the Med I am taking very few air losses – I fear the AI is reading Pelton's AARs as it seems to be saving its airforce for later.
The new approach for Bomber Command paid off again.
Its not just that relatively successful raids produce VP, they also build experience and in turn that leads to more effective bombing. The raid on Bielefeld was mostly done with Lancasters, Saarbrucken was a bit of mix of types.
Elements of Bomber Command and 8 Airforce carry on flattening the French rail system and ports.
Key to my improved performance was working out how to use air recon properly. In WiTE its much more simple, but this shows my coverage in France which is becoming very informative.
When I checked at the start of T13, I was down to +4 for city bombing but -1 for U-boats. So still a steady +3 per turn.
The Med bombing campaign is still mostly centred on protecting 5 Army in Italy. Elements of 7 Army are making steady progress in Sardinia and Corsica.
In northern Europe I switch strategic targets around but keep to the same operational approach.
Overall losses were down to 228
Bomber Command this time hit Kleeve (sorry Anne) and Saarbrucken (here I think adjusting the payload helped as does 2 weeks of sustained recon).
On the mainland, things are getting a bit of a problem. I am becoming very stretched, especially as there is a para division at Crotone and a Pzr+PzGr divisions in Reggio Calabria. I'm going to bomb both groups heavily but I need to secure my rear before pushing north (or risking the bulk of 7 Army landing near Rome). If I need to, I'll take elements of 8 Army by sea to the mainland and then they can support clearing those ports.
Once I clear Sardinia, I can do one of three things. The original plan was to act as a reserve for the Rome landings, but I can send some to Corsica to clear that or perhaps to help out 5 Army. Starting to become aware that the clock is ticking on the Italian campaign with bad weather on the way and I need those transports in the UK.
So after that cup of tea in the last post, a slightly more dramatic image this time: