Bloody Omaha MMCCIII CoI Test 2

[DampSquib]

No.
Both hard starts..once you have a good mix of tanks for both it's all down hill.
Just that first 2 or 3 battles for the germans i had trouble with.
The rest comes down to you keeping you're tanks in one piece...for both.

That first German BG was hard to get a win with....all AT & snipers.
Got to say it was a blast..as both.
US flame grill all the way.....Germans tanky fun.

All in all it went well...seen a load more maps.
Some nice mix of short & long maps...some favouring Inf & others defo Tanks.
But this is just my opinion.

[Pa1adin]

Great, this is what 'm looking for feedback wise.

When the server is restarted you should see another 10 or so new maps.


I've lowered the points a little.


Do you think non-historical aspects like the pershings arriving on 17 june should be changed?

In CoI Should we change to 15 min instead of 20 min?

In MMCC3 Should each battle represent 15min instead of 30 min?


I've got 1 map that keeps crashing the game ie. I have to lower my screnn resolution.. i keep forgetting to check which one.

Anyone else have this issue... should I remove the map?

[Andrew Williams]

I've had no crashes but I've been playing on a 17" 4:3 CRT 

I quite like the Pershings arriving but I've found they get destroyed easily but pack a big punch.

My vote is stay at 20min battles and 30min MMCC3.

[DampSquib]

Same as Andrew 17inch....But yes get rid of it if need be.
It is only 1 map...loads more
Yep same again,pershings are fine as they are.
20 mins both.

Extra commanders for the germans would be nice.
I ran the Command tanks out for the US...very quick but i do suck.

The only other thing i would change would be that first German Pool.
Add anything: a Armoured car..another engineer team..Shutzen.
Just so it's not AT & Sniper.

[vonB]

beach1 is the only map that threw me in the last round.
 
No problems running 1440x900, but as mentioned previously, sometimes the pre-deployment preview did not tally with the actual deployment demarkation, but no big deal for me.
 
As to the campaign (well, more on Operation, but who is splitting hairs [;)]).
 
On the whole, much better than the first, so good progress!
 
The starting battle or 2 is or can be a bit bizarre as far as the Roster is concerned.  Once you can get through them, it settles down.
 
Here are a few of my thoughts:
 
I think the campaign map is too big (or the sectors too small).  As Andrew has already commented, it is not necessary to conquer every sector to have a satisfying campaign, but I think there should be a fighting chance of doing so.  Even if the Allies had pushed all the way to the end date with no German players, I don't think they could have won every sector?  My feeling is that the campaign map should be half the size.  This would also present less duplicate maps to play on.
 
The starting BG's should be fixed, and reflecting the D-Day situation a bit.  Allies would have barrage (I don't know if that is possible to 'fix')  Germans would have a BG of light'sh Infantry, some MG's, an an AT Gun (PaK 40?), a light Mortar, and 3 Zugfuhrers.  Perhaps a low grade SP Gun (Marder?).
 
Allies have a solid body of line Infantry, Flame Thrower, 2 Decent Command Teams, .30 Cal MG, and either a couple of DD Shermans, or a Sherman and a something (Armoured Car/Stuart/etc).
 
But I am quite happy to choose a BG from the Roster, but the opening Roster needs attention, as it is deficient in important basic Units, in particular Command Teams and Infantry.  Plenty of Support Units.  Whether having no tanks is an issue is moot.  If it is the same for both sides then I can live with that (either no tanks on both sides or  some tanks on both sides), but any tanks should be strictly in line with waht was available and used at the time.
 
I say keep 20 minutes.  Some of the Maps are quite big.  15 minutes would add more stress to the attacking side, but in balance, I vote for the 20 minutes.  Having 30 minute 'campagn' battles, also seems fine to me, except that with the current map size, it ends before there is any real chance of battling the whole map.
 
Also, I would err on the side of not having any Units in the Roster that were not available at the time right up to the end date (20 June?)>  After that, who cares [;)]
 
Now to the issue of points, I would err on keeping them really quite low in general, so that it makes the decision between acquiring a heavy weapon (e.g. Sherman 76/PzKw IV) or repairing any damaged teams a difficult one.  We all know CC tends to go Tank Heavy whenever the opportunity arises, and the only way to stop that is either to remove them from the Roster or seriously limit their availability, or to pitch the points accordingly.
 
MMCCIII comes with bonus points occasionally, and that is an opportunity to grab some sexy stuff.  Perhaps 2 of the days can come with increased points for one side or the other (to reflect re-inforcements), perhaps even both sides on different days.
 
This can be complemented by reducing the AI points bonus.  I think 300% is too aggressive.  150% or maybe 200%.  When CC becomes tank heavy, it seems to resolve to who wins the tank battle wins the battle.  Certainly, if I win the tank battle, then I expect the game to be mine.  In CC, tanks are too powerful as infantry killers IMO.  Don't know what we can do abut that?
 
No German Air Support.  Not saying they didn't have any at the time, but the Allies did have a bit of a monopoly on it.  Perhaps in the last phase (10%/20%) of the campaign make them available for the Germans.  Not sure how that could be done either LOL!
 
I have been thinking about the Supply Sectors.  They seem fine on the whole, but I found the battle for Thaon raised an interesting issue of strategic play, and could this be exploited more?  Either many more Supply Sectors, or fewer.  If fewer, they should be a bugger to capture.  If more, then less so.  Copuld having many more, but less 'weighted' (i.e. bonus points for the defending side).  This could be considered with the supply point adjustments relating to distance from the Supply Sector.  It also means to surround block of enemy Sectors would become less easy without capturing the Supply Sectors.  Could it give them a bit more strategic potency?
 
These are some suggestions for a targetted D-Day and on Operation with some acknowledgement to the situation at the time, and provide a less heavy weapon game which it inevitably resolves to at some time.
 
However, thinking about that (whimsically...), there could be a 'Son Of MMCCO BO' which is no holds barred.  Stacks of points for both sides, all Units available, no rarity (i.e. Units from ANY period available), and 15 minutes battles (even 10?).  A sort of wham bam than you ma'm campaign.  Just pure game [:D]
 
Anyway, congrats to the MMCCIII BO Team, even Andrew and Matrix ([;)])for keeping the Server up so consistently.
 
Look forward to the next...

[Andrew Williams]

Great feedback guys.

If we can get BO sorted paladin wants to move on to a GJS MMCC3.

I can only see this working by revolving Campaigns through the MMCC3 servers as that will give us

Stock Campaign
Operation Mars
BO
GJS


I also have the Kursk campign by the BR clan but haven't played it at all but I expect way too Tank heavy - maybe that's a good thing for many ppl.

I also have the WF cmpaign but always found a balance problem with that.

[DampSquib]

ORIGINAL: vonB

However, thinking about that (whimsically...), there could be a 'Son Of MMCCO BO' which is no holds barred. Stacks of points for both sides, all Units available, no rarity (i.e. Units from ANY period available), and 15 minutes battles (even 10?). A sort of wham bam than you ma'm campaign. Just pure game [:D]

I love that idea...gives me chance to play with french armour...get the ss hetzer 38t FW
etc... This one goes to 11...1 louder...[:D]

GJS...lost me there never tried it...or Kursk.
Fan of Mafi's Afrika mod.
So..many i have never played.
Anyhoo..i thought that might be it for MMCC3[X(]..wow guess not.
Generous as it stands.

[vonB]

I also have the Kursk campign by the BR clan but haven't played it at all but I expect way too Tank heavy - maybe that's a good thing for many ppl.

WIth the opportunity to host several campaings concurrently, why not? Have a tank fest campaign, a bugger all tanks campaign (Real Infantry?), small campign, big campaign, Afrika... lots to choose from [:)]

My favourite CC Mod is Grossdeutschland, but I am not sure that would port to the MMCCIII campign very well. It is particulalry 'tailored' towards a Single Player Game as Germans.

Anyways, sometime this century [;)] I will get CCOPS done, so there will be more Strategic CC Gameplay!... [8D]

[Dundradal]

I've got some more time coming up and would love to get back into this [:)]

GJS MMCC3 sounds awesome.

I'm going to see about getting in some BO right now...

[Andrew Williams]

I will get CCOPS done, so there will be more Strategic CC Gameplay!...

Plenty of space and loads of time 

[Andrew Williams]

paladin has sent through some campaign changes.

i will post them here for comment.

[DampSquib]

Map gdchamp gives me a crash when trying to view the map.
Plays fine..just carn't have a wee look at the map.

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1000
Date: 27/08/2010
Time: 18:39:04
User: N/A
Computer: No it's a paperweight.
Description: Old.
Faulting application cc3.exe, version 2006.11.6.1, faulting module cc3.exe, version 2006.11.6.1, fault address 0x0002384e.

Data:
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 63 63 33 ure cc3
0018: 2e 65 78 65 20 32 30 30 .exe 200
0020: 36 2e 31 31 2e 36 2e 31 6.11.6.1
0028: 20 69 6e 20 63 63 33 2e in cc3.
0030: 65 78 65 20 32 30 30 36 exe 2006
0038: 2e 31 31 2e 36 2e 31 20 .11.6.1
0040: 61 74 20 6f 66 66 73 65 at offse
0048: 74 20 30 30 30 32 33 38 t 000238
0050: 34 65 0d 0a 4e..

[Andrew Williams]

Proposed setup.txt

#hour minute day month year
StartDate: 6 00 6 6 1944
#Point penalty (in percent 1 means 1%) for distance from supply point
SupplyDistancePenalty: 5
#Time before the supply point becomes operational after taking a location
#The time is in days
SupplyPointOperationDelay: 1
#Chance per day that surrounded sector will surrender
#15 means - 1/15 chance that sector will surrended
SurrenderFrequency: 5
#How many more points will AI get for example:
#if AIPointBonusPercent: 300 then
# if player would get 50 points AI will get 150
AIPointBonusPercent: 300
#if MaxAgainstAIPenalty: 50 then
# in the worst case player would get 50% of points against AI
MaxAgainstAIPenalty: 30
#Season change penalties
#When seasons change (summer/winter) there is ussually lots of mud
#this slows down the supplies...
#SeasonChangePenalty: daysOfChange germanPercentPenalty germanAmmo SovietPercentPenalty sovietAmmo
SeasonChangePenalty: 1 40 80 40 80
#Bonus probabilities: GermanExtraPoints GermanBarage SovietExtraPoints SovietBarage
#All of these are in percent - should never be more than 50%!
BonusProbabilities: 5 5 5 10
#Time periods starting dates - YOU MUST HAVE ALL 16 of them!
#If you need less than 16 just make some of the start before
#campaign start date
#format: Period: periodNumber startMinute startHour startDay startMonth startYear Name
Period: 1 0 0 0 0 1944 Omaha
Period: 2 0 0 6 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 3 0 0 7 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 4 0 0 8 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 5 0 0 9 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 6 0 0 10 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 7 0 0 11 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 8 0 0 12 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 9 0 0 13 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 10 0 0 14 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 11 0 0 15 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 12 0 0 16 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 13 0 0 17 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 14 0 0 18 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 15 0 0 19 6 1944 Omaha
Period: 16 0 0 20 6 1944 Omaha
#Points must be ordered by the date!
#Points: day month year battleIsMinutes germanPoints germanAmmo sovietPoints sovietAmmo
Points: 0 0 1944 20 100 100 300 100
Points: 6 6 1944 20 100 100 300 100
Points: 7 6 1944 20 140 100 200 100
Points: 8 6 1944 20 150 100 200 100
Points: 9 6 1944 20 250 100 250 100
Points: 10 6 1944 20 250 100 200 100
Points: 11 6 1944 20 200 100 200 100
Points: 12 6 1944 20 100 100 100 100
Points: 13 6 1944 20 150 100 150 100
Points: 14 6 1944 20 170 100 170 100
Points: 15 6 1944 20 100 100 100 100
Points: 16 6 1944 20 200 100 200 100
Points: 17 6 1944 20 300 100 300 100
Points: 18 6 1944 20 200 100 200 100
Points: 19 6 1944 20 250 100 250 100
Points: 20 6 1944 20 400 100 400 100
#SupplyPoint: side posX posY - from (0,0) to (mapSizeX-1, mapSizeY-1)
#Dog Green
SupplyPoint: G 32 16
SupplyPoint: S 32 16
#Easy Green
SupplyPoint: G 28 17
SupplyPoint: S 28 17
#Fox Green West
SupplyPoint: G 22 21
SupplyPoint: S 22 21
#Port en Besin
SupplyPoint: G 14 26
SupplyPoint: S 14 26
#Isigny
SupplyPoint: G 7 1
SupplyPoint: S 7 1
#Vouilly
SupplyPoint: G 9 8
SupplyPoint: S 9 8
#La Foret
SupplyPoint: G 6 7
SupplyPoint: S 6 7
#LaCambe
SupplyPoint: G 18 7
SupplyPoint: S 18 7
#Grand Camp
SupplyPoint: G 32 5
SupplyPoint: S 32 5
#Colleville
SupplyPoint: G 15 21
SupplyPoint: S 15 21
#Treviers
SupplyPoint: G 7 16
SupplyPoint: S 7 16
#St Laurent
SupplyPoint: G 18 17
SupplyPoint: S 18 17
end

[Andrew Williams]

Basic changes

20min Battles (was 30min) (72 battles per day instead of previous 48 battles per day)

Lower points

Approx. 10 extra maps.

[vonB]

ETA for new Campaign? (Getting withdrawl symptoms....)

[Dundradal]

Agreed. I'd like to jump back into testing this as well.

[Andrew Williams]

Any comments first???

[Andrew Williams]

i was hoping to start when you're all asleep so i can get an early jump and take Thaon on the run.

[Dundradal]

Those settings look good to me.

[vonB]

I anticipate a harder challange for the Player. The points are reduced, but the AI bonus is going to inexorably start stacking up on heavy weapons, and the player is going to find it harder to add/refit/upgrade with some unenviable choices to be made (between repairing teams and adding new one's, especially heavy weapons).

But lets' go for it, and see how it transpires.

What about the Starting battle? Do you think we will get a bit more sense from the opening roster?

Also, don't know if the upgrade path for the Allied HT Mortar has been fixed. It gave me the upgrade to Sherman Tanks!