Question about carrier magazines

[LoBlo]

Question about carrier magazines. I've read that in real life ordinance is ejected from all returning aircraft as to not implose a explosion risk for aircraft landing on the carrier. Does CMANO take this into account? Meaning that whatever ordance an aircraft leaves with is not recovered and is effectively 'spent'.

When I look at the 'expenditures' in the loss/expenditures window it looks like it does, but somethings things aren't adding up. For example, there aren't enough sidewinders to account for the 'ejected ordinance'.

What prompts the question is that in heavy fighting where ordinance expenditures are important it would be import to conserve air-air-missiles so that if aircraft are bingo fuel without expending all ordinance it may be better to go with lighter missile loadouts (rather than heavy).

What about not explosive pods like FLIRS and ECM podds? Are those ejected too?

Thanks.

lb

[jtoatoktoe]

I don't think the U.S. jettisons weapons anymore. Maybe dumb bombs but I don't think modern smart weapons are jettisoned. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've seen landings with A2A weapons still attached.

[mikmykWS]

I think the only do it if they're over a certain weight and it would be extremely rare for that to happen. Command doesn't jettison ordinance at all.

Mike

[DeltaIV]

I believe that these limitations were there mainly due to A/C's structural limitations - at least for some types. The A/C's fuselage is severely strained if there's extra weight, so there were some limitations on the landing loadouts. Not sure how it works now, but i doubt that they just simply ditch the expensive weaponry into sea.

[airwinger63]

As a former Aviation Ordnanceman in the U.S. Navy, I can tell you that all aircraft have a different comeback weights that must be met first, so fuel or ordnance has to go to meet that requirement when returning to the boat, both can be lost. Fuel can be burned overhead or dumped in the pattern and ordnance is jetted, if it has too.

Stations (pylons) have max weights also, the A-6 couldn't bring back harpoon (at sea) on the outboard stations 1 & 5, inboard only 2 and 4. So you shouldn't see poons there on old photos on web. During the first gulf war, we had some aircraft that had problems, they were jetting MERs (multiple ejection racks) with 3 MK 83s like there was no tomorrow. The Tomcat carried the Phoenix on special weapons rails that allowed that million missile to allways come back, later on 1,000 lbs bombs rode there. If you look, you'll see tons of FAGs (Fighter Attack GuyS, i.e. F/A-18s) with all kinds of smaller (500 lbs) weapons, on their outboard pylons coming back with the bigger weapons (1000 lbs class) on thei inner station, so that must meet their requirment.

All them external tanks you see are empty regardless of the airctaft, no one wants 300 lbs of flamable fuel sloshing around let alone coming to a sudden stop during the arrested landing.

I would think the golden rule would be something like the more it cost or the the more advanced it is, the more likely it is to come back if not needed...

Airwinger63

[mikmykWS]

Guess we should consider this then.

Mike

[airwinger63]

Done wih chores... did a little looking, appears "Bring back weight" is the proper term, see links below.

Tomcat verus Hornet..

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/new-ge ... &nid=71491

Clancey's written about it (page 152)

http://books.google.com/books?id=XsEDFV ... ht&f=false

Someone's aircraft webpage (F/A-18 E/F)

http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/f18e.htm

Book Operation Iraqi Freedom, Page 266

http://books.google.com/books?id=ubFfDp ... ht&f=false

Love CMANO.. Keep up the great work.

Airwinger63

[LoBlo]

Why are ECM and FLIR podds listed as expenditures in the score reports then? Does Command count them as 'spent' whenever they are launched?

lb

[dcpollay]

They would likely be expenditures if they were lost when the plane is shot down?

[mikmykWS]

Just tested and pods aren't dropped at landing and are correctly dumped back into the magazine (if you don't have an entry Command creates a 1/99999 entry for it). If you are not seeing that please do post a save. If there is an issue we will fix it.

Added a note to count the pods as lost when the aircraft dies. We aren't currently doing that.

Mike

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: airwinger63

Done wih chores... did a little looking, appears "Bring back weight" is the proper term, see links below.

Tomcat verus Hornet..

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/new-ge ... &nid=71491

Clancey's written about it (page 152)

http://books.google.com/books?id=XsEDFV ... ht&f=false

Someone's aircraft webpage (F/A-18 E/F)

http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/f18e.htm

Book Operation Iraqi Freedom, Page 266

http://books.google.com/books?id=ubFfDp ... ht&f=false

Love CMANO.. Keep up the great work.

Airwinger63

airwinger63
Done wih chores... did a little looking, appears "Bring back weight" is the proper term, see links below.

Tomcat verus Hornet..

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/new-ge ... &nid=71491

Clancey's written about it (page 152)

http://books.google.com/books?id=XsEDFV ... ht&f=false

Someone's aircraft webpage (F/A-18 E/F)

http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/f18e.htm

Book Operation Iraqi Freedom, Page 266

http://books.google.com/books?id=ubFfDp ... ht&f=false

Love CMANO.. Keep up the great work.

Airwinger63

Thanks for the sources!

[ClaudeJ]

Trivia: During Operation "Allied Force" (March-June 1999), it's only in May 1999 that french Super Étendard Modernisé based on Foch CV were cleared to bring back their bombs. Until then, 49 GBU-12 had to be turned into an offering to Poseidon.
One thus understand the urge to find your target when you are carrying a 400 000€ AS30L not cleared for landing...

[airwinger63]

Thanks for the great product....

as for "Command doesn't jettison ordnance at all." maybe that should be a option under Attack (F1, drop down). Been playing alot of Vietnam scenarios, and reading.. 2 ways to look at it in my opionion, Good guys view, I would rather clean up (dump ordnance, points loss to me, if scoring) and get away and fight another day (Vietnam did last 10,000 days) and the bad guys, A soft kill (mission inflight aborted, ordnance drop, points gain if scoring) could be just a effective as shooting down the aircraft, regardless of what happens, they ain't drop bombs on my head today... and as Annie sang.., Tomorrow, tomorrow..

Airwinger63

[LoBlo]

ORIGINAL: Colonel Mustard

They would likely be expenditures if they were lost when the plane is shot down?

Thats what I was thinking too, but even in scenarios which I didn't lose a single plane they are listed as expenditures. Its a little confusing.

[LoBlo]

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Just tested and pods aren't dropped at landing and are correctly dumped back into the magazine (if you don't have an entry Command creates a 1/99999 entry for it). If you are not seeing that please do post a save. If there is an issue we will fix it.

Added a note to count the pods as lost when the aircraft dies. We aren't currently doing that.

Mike

Thanks, the next go around I'll look carefully as well.