Total Fail

[crsutton]

42 Allied subs sunk in the first half of 1944. Nine in the last 20 days! Eight of the nine have gone down to the super E type escort which have accounted for about 75% of the total. It is bad enough that my subs are not really that effective in the first place but it just totally escapes me why this total craptacular fantasy has not been addressed. I have to sit while my subs undergo round after endless round of depth charging by these wonderful Japanese ships.

There. I have had my rant. [:@]

[pompack]

The problem has always been that the engine ignores sensor capabilites and strictly uses the number of weapons to determine kill probability

[henry1611]

I had a similarly frustrating experience as the Allies with Downfall. I kept losing sub after sub.

I opened up the scenario in the Scenario Editor, made the changes to the E Class suggested in this thread (tm.asp?m=2741177) and said "Yes" when I opened up the save game, thereby incorporating the database changes into my on-going game. I noticed an immediate difference for the better and did not notice any problems with updating an on-going game.

May be worth a look.

[Canoerebel]

Back in my AAR with Miller ("Shattered Vow"), this kind of stuff prompted me to go back and look at the number of USN subs sunk throughout the war.  I forget the exact number - I think it was in the 90s - so in the first half of '44 you've lost roughly half the number that the United States lost in the entire war (and I think that included the Atlantic!).  Of course, this is whacked out.  It has prompted a number of Allied players to switch the uses of USN subs to mainly serving as a picket line in deep water and for mining.

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: pompack
The problem has always been that the engine ignores sensor capabilites and strictly uses the number of weapons to determine kill probability

Which is totally a SOP to the JFB crowd. Someone should do a mod that allows the US to load 10,000 depth charges on a liberty ship with 20 K-guns to a side. See how the JFB's like facing an escort with an ASW rating of 250. [:D][:D][:D]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: pompack
The problem has always been that the engine ignores sensor capabilites and strictly uses the number of weapons to determine kill probability

Which is totally a SOP to the JFB crowd. Someone should do a mod that allows the US to load 10,000 depth charges on a liberty ship with 20 K-guns to a side. See how the JFB's like facing an escort with an ASW rating of 250. [:D][:D][:D]

Well, I have no problem with Allied ASW. I have pretty much neutralized the Japanese sub force in 44. But I expected that. Can anyone say that that should not be the case? In fact although there are quite a few things about the sub game that I am not happy with, if this one thing was fixed I would shut up. (mostly [;)]) But this thing just stinks...I mean really stinks.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

42 Allied subs sunk in the first half of 1944. Nine in the last 20 days! Eight of the nine have gone down to the super E type escort which have accounted for about 75% of the total. It is bad enough that my subs are not really that effective in the first place but it just totally escapes me why this total craptacular fantasy has not been addressed. I have to sit while my subs undergo round after endless round of depth charging by these wonderful Japanese ships.

There. I have had my rant. [:@]

[irritating JFB mode on/] Ha! Perhaps you bad Admiral, dogface GI! Japanese sailors kill many subs! Japanese sailors superior in all ways! You die, Yankee sailor dog! [/irritating JFB mode off]

[LST Express]

It's May 45 in my pbem and I'm afraid to go count the number of subs I've lost. But I figure there are things my opponent might not be too happy about either so I just drive on. [:)]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Can anyone say that that should not be the case?

Yes. I can say that.

I don't mean it, but I can say it just to get your dander up. [:'(]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Back in my AAR with Miller ("Shattered Vow"), this kind of stuff prompted me to go back and look at the number of USN subs sunk throughout the war.  I forget the exact number - I think it was in the 90s - so in the first half of '44 you've lost roughly half the number that the United States lost in the entire war (and I think that included the Atlantic!).  Of course, this is whacked out.  It has prompted a number of Allied players to switch the uses of USN subs to mainly serving as a picket line in deep water and for mining.

Averaged about one a month for the whole war. I think only three to ASW in all of 42.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

42 Allied subs sunk in the first half of 1944. Nine in the last 20 days! Eight of the nine have gone down to the super E type escort which have accounted for about 75% of the total. It is bad enough that my subs are not really that effective in the first place but it just totally escapes me why this total craptacular fantasy has not been addressed. I have to sit while my subs undergo round after endless round of depth charging by these wonderful Japanese ships.

There. I have had my rant. [:@]

[irritating JFB mode on/] Ha! Perhaps you bad Admiral, dogface GI! Japanese sailors kill many subs! Japanese sailors superior in all ways! You die, Yankee sailor dog! [/irritating JFB mode off]

You can always count on the Poultry man to rub salt in a wound...[:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Back in my AAR with Miller ("Shattered Vow"), this kind of stuff prompted me to go back and look at the number of USN subs sunk throughout the war.  I forget the exact number - I think it was in the 90s - .

You're off by almost 100%.

[Schanilec]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Back in my AAR with Miller ("Shattered Vow"), this kind of stuff prompted me to go back and look at the number of USN subs sunk throughout the war.  I forget the exact number - I think it was in the 90s - .

You're off by almost 100%.

I believe it was 52 Subs lost to all causes. Right?

[Treetop64]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

42 Allied subs sunk in the first half of 1944. Nine in the last 20 days! Eight of the nine have gone down to the super E type escort which have accounted for about 75% of the total. It is bad enough that my subs are not really that effective in the first place but it just totally escapes me why this total craptacular fantasy has not been addressed. I have to sit while my subs undergo round after endless round of depth charging by these wonderful Japanese ships.

There. I have had my rant. [:@]

[irritating JFB mode on/] Ha! Perhaps you bad Admiral, dogface GI! Japanese sailors kill many subs! Japanese sailors superior in all ways! You die, Yankee sailor dog! [/irritating JFB mode off]

I am laugh! [:D]

[mdiehl]

this kind of stuff prompted me to go back and look at the number of USN subs sunk throughout the war. I forget the exact number - I think it was in the 90s -

52 American submarines were lost during the entire war on all global fronts, including those lost to grounding, collisions, and training accidents. He's lost more US subs in a month than the Japanese sank during the entire war.

[Rising-Sun]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

42 Allied subs sunk in the first half of 1944. Nine in the last 20 days! Eight of the nine have gone down to the super E type escort which have accounted for about 75% of the total. It is bad enough that my subs are not really that effective in the first place but it just totally escapes me why this total craptacular fantasy has not been addressed. I have to sit while my subs undergo round after endless round of depth charging by these wonderful Japanese ships.

There. I have had my rant. [:@]

Are you using any mod or just plain vanilla scenario?

[DD696]

I have a picture of the plaque at the US Naval Academy, Annapolis, Maryland showing submarines lost during WWII, but it is too large to attach, and I am too lazy at the moment to re-size it.

Fifty two submarines lost in the entire war from all causes is correct. Sometimes the game gets it close, and sometimes it goes off on a wild tangent that in no way approximates what actually happened. I like to have a bit of reality mixed in with a good deal of "it could have been possible" play. Otherwise, it would be quite a long, boring, game.

Your losses are outside the realm of possibility, I would say. DaBabes scenarios help to restore some sense of normalcy here, but, of course, that is no help to you and all the time you have spent on your game.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

ORIGINAL: crsutton

42 Allied subs sunk in the first half of 1944. Nine in the last 20 days! Eight of the nine have gone down to the super E type escort which have accounted for about 75% of the total. It is bad enough that my subs are not really that effective in the first place but it just totally escapes me why this total craptacular fantasy has not been addressed. I have to sit while my subs undergo round after endless round of depth charging by these wonderful Japanese ships.

There. I have had my rant. [:@]

Are you using any mod or just plain vanilla scenario?

Stock, scen #2 so I expect there are more than in scen #1. Still, one of those bastards is too many....

[Commander Stormwolf]

Sub warware is much better in AE than in stock

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

42 Allied subs sunk in the first half of 1944. Nine in the last 20 days! Eight of the nine have gone down to the super E type escort which have accounted for about 75% of the total. It is bad enough that my subs are not really that effective in the first place but it just totally escapes me why this total craptacular fantasy has not been addressed. I have to sit while my subs undergo round after endless round of depth charging by these wonderful Japanese ships.

There. I have had my rant. [:@]

solution = DaBabes or Babeslite [;)] brings it to a more realistic stage. Vanilla is more like Kriegsmarine in the Pacific with the USN subs acting as the Uboats with the well known outcome...