USN Torpedo Dud Rate

[dave sindel]

From the manual -

"6.4.2.1 NOTE ON TORPEDO DUDS
In January 1943, all torpedoes with a dud rate of greater than 49 have their dud rates reduced
by 20. In September 1943, all torpedoes with an adjusted dud rate greater than 20 have their
dud rates lowered to 10. Allied torpedoes were notoriously inefficient in the early stages of the
Pacific War, and this rule reflects their slow but steady improvement over the years."

My question is this - do subs that are at sea and on patrol when the calendar turns to September 1943 see this dud rate reduction occur automatically ? I am assuming that it is date driven, and the subs dont have to go back to port to replenish with "better" torpedoes. But I'd like to be sure so that I can plan for it if needed.

[btd64]

Yes the date is what matters. No return to port required....GP

[crsutton]

I am still seeing a lot of "hits" with no explosion on my combat reports in mid September. I suspect that the actual date comes at the end of September, but who knows. JWE also stated in one of his posts that although it is not in the rule book, Allied surface gunnery gets a boost to reflect the better radar and fire control systems. He did not know or specify the date though.

[dave sindel]

Thanks for the response GP.

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

My question is this - do subs that are at sea and on patrol when the calendar turns to September 1943 see this dud rate reduction occur automatically ?

Great question firstly. Cheers.

It never occurred to me.

I would add though that it "seems to me" all the subs in the Pacific upgrade between 8 / 42 and especially 6 / 43. A healthy number on the back end of that date. I didn't look at the database on this but it is my general impression.

Depending upon your deployment I would assume that your rotational upgrades are going to have to happen anyway..

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I am still seeing a lot of "hits" with no explosion on my combat reports in mid September. I suspect that the actual date comes at the end of September, but who knows. JWE also stated in one of his posts that although it is not in the rule book, Allied surface gunnery gets a boost to reflect the better radar and fire control systems. He did not know or specify the date though.

If the original 80% dud rate is only reduced by (20+10) you still have 50% duds to grit your teeth about! [:@]

I think the allied gunnery boost was Jan. 1 1944 (although I am not positive) because I remember a discussion that it should have been earlier to reflect the RL battle of Empress Augusta Bay where the Cleveland class cruisers got first salvo hits on a Japanese CL.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I am still seeing a lot of "hits" with no explosion on my combat reports in mid September. I suspect that the actual date comes at the end of September, but who knows. JWE also stated in one of his posts that although it is not in the rule book, Allied surface gunnery gets a boost to reflect the better radar and fire control systems. He did not know or specify the date though.

If the original 80% dud rate is only reduced by (20+10) you still have 50% duds to grit your teeth about! [:@]

I think the allied gunnery boost was Jan. 1 1944 (although I am not positive) because I remember a discussion that it should have been earlier to reflect the RL battle of Empress Augusta Bay where the Cleveland class cruisers got first salvo hits on a Japanese CL.

This is complete news to me. My reaction is:

What what what???


I mean seriously?

[BBfanboy]

Yes - Bill confirmed this several months ago. No message appears to let you know it happened - it is just built into the game at a specific date.

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I am still seeing a lot of "hits" with no explosion on my combat reports in mid September. I suspect that the actual date comes at the end of September, but who knows. JWE also stated in one of his posts that although it is not in the rule book, Allied surface gunnery gets a boost to reflect the better radar and fire control systems. He did not know or specify the date though.

If the original 80% dud rate is only reduced by (20+10) you still have 50% duds to grit your teeth about! [:@]

I think the allied gunnery boost was Jan. 1 1944 (although I am not positive) because I remember a discussion that it should have been earlier to reflect the RL battle of Empress Augusta Bay where the Cleveland class cruisers got first salvo hits on a Japanese CL.

I didnt read it that way. The manual excerpt I quoted says in January 1943 the dud rate is reduced "BY 20", but in September it says "TO 10" not "BY 10". A 10% dud rate would seem more in line with the improvement in torpedoes in RL.

I'm in February 43, and it seems my subs have been doing better of late. I havent been keeping close track, it's just a sense that I am seeing more hits. I am sure hoping to see a major improvement come September / October.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I am still seeing a lot of "hits" with no explosion on my combat reports in mid September. I suspect that the actual date comes at the end of September, but who knows. JWE also stated in one of his posts that although it is not in the rule book, Allied surface gunnery gets a boost to reflect the better radar and fire control systems. He did not know or specify the date though.

If the original 80% dud rate is only reduced by (20+10) you still have 50% duds to grit your teeth about! [:@]

I think the allied gunnery boost was Jan. 1 1944 (although I am not positive) because I remember a discussion that it should have been earlier to reflect the RL battle of Empress Augusta Bay where the Cleveland class cruisers got first salvo hits on a Japanese CL.

I didnt read it that way. The manual excerpt I quoted says in January 1943 the dud rate is reduced "BY 20", but in September it says "TO 10" not "BY 10". A 10% dud rate would seem more in line with the improvement in torpedoes in RL.

I'm in February 43, and it seems my subs have been doing better of late. I havent been keeping close track, it's just a sense that I am seeing more hits. I am sure hoping to see a major improvement come September / October.

Oops - you are correct - nice catch!
Must be just bad luck on the die rolls that crsutton is seeing a lot of duds still - or he let his crews drink all the torpedo juice!

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I am still seeing a lot of "hits" with no explosion on my combat reports in mid September. I suspect that the actual date comes at the end of September, but who knows. JWE also stated in one of his posts that although it is not in the rule book, Allied surface gunnery gets a boost to reflect the better radar and fire control systems. He did not know or specify the date though.

If the original 80% dud rate is only reduced by (20+10) you still have 50% duds to grit your teeth about! [:@]

I think the allied gunnery boost was Jan. 1 1944 (although I am not positive) because I remember a discussion that it should have been earlier to reflect the RL battle of Empress Augusta Bay where the Cleveland class cruisers got first salvo hits on a Japanese CL.

I didnt read it that way. The manual excerpt I quoted says in January 1943 the dud rate is reduced "BY 20", but in September it says "TO 10" not "BY 10". A 10% dud rate would seem more in line with the improvement in torpedoes in RL.

I'm in February 43, and it seems my subs have been doing better of late. I havent been keeping close track, it's just a sense that I am seeing more hits. I am sure hoping to see a major improvement come September / October.

You are correct. All torpedoes on both sides have a 10% dud rate after this date. Yeah, could just be that I am sensitive to the hit with no explosion message. I am operating my subs in a conflicted area with heavy enemy ASW assets and that could be why I am not having more success. Will start spreading them back out soon.

[rustysi]

Keep in mind that the January reduction of 20 still means most U.S. torpedoes will have dud rates of 60. That's still quite high.

[spence]

Same as the IJN dud rate for the 800 kg AP bomb - easy to ignore.