Battleships Useful At All?

[Zoetermeer]

As the Allied player, I'm left wondering why I should even bother repairing my damaged battleships after Dec. 7. I don't really see what they are useful for without air cover anyway -- other than as shore-bombardment support.

I came through the first few days of the Japanese onslaught with quite a few of my more powerful surface ships intact, but I don't really know how to make them useful in these early days when putting them to sea is just asking for certain death from the air.

[HansBolter]

You don't use them in the early days.

At least not much.

Their forte is shore bombardment and they are great to have around when you start your island hopping campaign.

[Yaab]

The Dec 7 attack has a high ratio of torpedoes and 800 kg bombs used by Japs. Once your BBs hit the open seas, you will see Japanese 250 kg bombs bouncing off your battleships' armor. To war!

[BillBrown]

nm

[Anthropoid]

Well, I'd say Battleships are pretty damn good at kicking ass . . . as long as there are no planes within ~250 miles or so . . .

If I have a choice between say:
(A)
9 DD (with ASW capability)
5 CLAA

vs.
(B)(i)
1 BB (with sufficient speed and decent AA)
2 DD (with ASW capability)
2 CLAA

AND followed by
(B)(ii)
4 DD (with ASW and good torpedos)

I will take (B)(i)(ii)

In fact, I think I'd probably even take (B)(i) over (A) _in general_.

If all the vessels in (A) are relatively fast (lets say all have speed >32 knots or so) then yeah, (A) has certain very useful applications . . . such as following (B)(i) and helping the Battleship and his little buddies to kick ass.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Well, I'd say Battleships are pretty damn good at kicking ass . . . as long as there are no planes within ~250 miles or so . . .

If I have a choice between say:
(A)
9 DD (with ASW capability)
5 CLAA

vs.
(B)(i)
1 BB (with sufficient speed and decent AA)
2 DD (with ASW capability)
2 CLAA

AND followed by
(B)(ii)
4 DD (with ASW and good torpedos)

I will take (B)(i)(ii)

In fact, I think I'd probably even take (B)(i) over (A) _in general_.

If all the vessels in (A) are relatively fast (lets say all have speed >32 knots or so) then yeah, (A) has certain very useful applications . . . such as following (B)(i) and helping the Battleship and his little buddies to kick ass.

The BBs also tend to soak up a lot of fuel. This is why Nimitz didn't send any old BBs to the Solomons.

[dr.hal]

One aspect is to use the BBs where weather and bases limit the available air, like around Alaska. Here I had one BB, the California defeat two Japanese BBs... not sure how, but she DID do it and walked (sailed) away with only moderate damage! They can be tough old birds!!!

[AW1Steve]

I've always found that in an area that you have local air supremacy , a couple of old BB's make an excellent "point defense" for bases that your opponent likes to bombard. They are also a wonderful surprise for a Japanese player who is "raider happy" , against AMC's , CL's and even a CA. If they are just "stooging around" a port or a "choke point" they don't use up much fuel either.

[geofflambert]

Battleship useful at all? Well, you could always use the game board to store Q-Tips or toothpicks.

[BillBrown]

nm

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

All I can say is be careful about having your slow BBs fight LL equiped IJN DDs. The DDs usually win.

Take a look at Onime and my AAR. I just took on a large TF Of LL equipped warships. They didn't win. Not even close. Train your ships, upgrade them and carefully hand select your captains and TF commander and you'll do much better than you might think. [:)]

[Grfin Zeppelin]

No no, they are not usefull. Just drive them straight into Tokyo bay.

[Reg]

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

All I can say is be careful about having your slow BBs fight LL equiped IJN DDs. The DDs usually win.

Which is the reason IRL that the light cruiser class existed in the first place. Their role with small calibre high and rate of fire guns was keep the the torpedo armed destroyers at arm length from the main battle line.

The game is designed to encourage the use of historical tactics....

[MakeeLearn]

AHHHH!!! as us landlubber grunts used to sing... "She had a pair of hips like two battleships".

Besides shore bombardment, they are good to have nearby in case of a toe-to-toe fight, for their punching power and for everyone else to hide behind.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Reg

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

All I can say is be careful about having your slow BBs fight LL equiped IJN DDs. The DDs usually win.

Which is the reason IRL that the light cruiser class existed in the first place. Their role with small calibre high and rate of fire guns was keep the the torpedo armed destroyers at arm length from the main battle line.

The game is designed to encourage the use of historical tactics....

Absolutely! Brooklyn class CL's are terrific DD killers! Keep you TF's comparable. BB's should be sister ships, CL's should be sisters , and DD's should be , if possible sisters. I didn't have Fletchers , so I made due with Sim's class. And I didn't have Porters in the area , or I'd have used them too. The answer to the long lance , is the answer to any surface weapon system...training , leaders and a planned response. In this case, as many 5" guns as I could come up with. I was quite surprised that Spruance beat Tanaka. But it can be done with care and planning. [:)]

[AW1Steve]

And of course , if speed is NOT a requirement, they make tremendous protection for your CV's as bomb and torpedo magnets. In short, I'd say USN old BB's are good "close to home" ships. I wouldn't send them too far from a decent size port.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

No no, they are not usefull. Just drive them straight into Tokyo bay.

Eventually. When they can come with lots, and lots of their friends. [:D]

[Grfin Zeppelin]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

No no, they are not usefull. Just drive them straight into Tokyo bay.

Eventually. When they can come with lots, and lots of their friends. [:D]

“We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in China, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the paddies and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall always do a Banzai charge, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the Japanese Fleet, would carry on the struggle.

[Anthropoid]

Well, they were useful in War Plan Orange anyway . . .

[crsutton]

Some basic rules for old Allied BBs

1. They have little value in 1942 but gain in value each year thereafter. Repair them, upgrade them and get their AA values up. Then avoid using them for a year.
2. They have terrible night combat experience. Don't think about using them in surface fights until late 43 when Allied ships get a gunnery boost. They are slow and are "always" long lance bait.
3. Don't mix them with fast ships-they slow everything else down and make them all that more vulnerable. Of course, you will never mix them with modern BBs.
4. If you are going to use them at night. Only do so when moonlight is near 100%. But then again, you are not going to use them at night. (Until later)
5. Don't send them to the South Pacific in early 1942. (You will only get them sunk). They are fuel hogs and you will be short of fuel.
6. They are excellent escorts for CVE task forces. (Same speed and will soak up bombs that can kill a CVE)
7. They are excellent additions to amphibious TFs. They fire counter battery and will attract most all shore gun fire to themselves and usually suffer little harm. They also soak up bombs-see number 6.
8. It is not in the rules and the date is unknown but JWE mentioned some time back that American ships get a gunnery boost to reflect the more modern fire control systems. This happens in late 43 or 1/44. Once that happens they can pretty much go head to head with any Japanese ship save the two super ships.

I like to avoid BB vs BB combat. Yeah, it is fun but torpedoes are best for sinking BBs. Mines as well will put them in the shipyard. A heavily damaged BB is out of the war for a year.