Stingers are totally useless???

[MrLongleg]

Just getting back into this gem of a game to be reminded of my old frustrations. I am playing "Early Tuesday Morning" on the NATO side. My air defense is totally disfunctional. The Gepards are just killed by the Soviet Hinds while there fire never seems to hit anything. Moreover I have shot about 50 SAM's (probably Stingers) on those helis and downed exactly one. I believe there must be a modelling mistake. Moreover the 40 mm gun of the Gepard should be able to take down a Hind, right? The only one killing Helis are Panzergrenadiers and tanks with machine guns if they can get close enough.

This scenario also seems to suffer from a missing bridge on the map. It seems Hex 2919 is missing the highway bridge.

[Stimpak]

Highly depends on what other factors are playing in.

Are the hinds in good cover? Are the air defense units in low readiness condition? Are these shots occuring at long ranges?
I've found over my time playing this tame that the first factor alone makes it very difficult for most SAM systems to engage helicopters. AA cannons and MGs at close range tend to ironically be more reliable.

[CapnDarwin]

Map errors will be fixed in the full 2.0.11 release. As for the stingers or other AD issues, please grab a screen shot and save file for us to review to see if there is a code issue or to explain the situation. Thanks.

[MrLongleg]

Can't take screenshot, because the application crashed shortly after. Aren't Stingers homing missiles with a good hit probability? Also observed 3 German PAH's (Helis) in a perfect position to fire at Russian helis (full readiness and full ammo), instead they just sit there to be taken out by the Hind's one after the other without firing a single missile.

[CapnDarwin]

Stingers are a decent anti-air system, but subject to counter-measures, line of sight, and proficiency of the shooter to employ the weapon in the right envelope to obtain a hit and subject to the defending pilot and how aware they are of the shot. Once you get all those pieces in play the chances to secure a hit and a kill drop off.

As for the German PAHs, they are not equipped with any anti-air capability. Just HOT ATGMs. If they see Hinds they should run away. Hinds have a cannon that is air to air capable. It may be a good idea to review the equipment you have in your force via the Sub-Unit Inspector by selecting a unit and hitting F6 or double clicking on of the subunit images at the bottom of the screen when a unit is selected on map. To be able to shoot at air targets the weapon needs to be "AD" capable.

[clodhellmer]

A small one: We had never any STINGERS in a GEPARD Unit. We used the Redeye till the
reunification of Germany. Later the STRELA. For an out of area mission the GEPARD units would recive the IGLA, maybe STINGER. The STINGER (and the trainig for it) war only used in the light air defence units, Air force and Navy. Well, the AD feels not right for me. The Gepard B2L was on of the best AD Gun Systems. And fast like hell! Later we alsways had a GEPARD working in a Team with ROLAND. ROLAND had to wait at least 15 sec before engaging any targets. GEPARD could fire on the move (well, if your not to fast driving) but could engage any target in a couple of seconds, uzing its ZO. (Zielzuweiser Optisch) By the way, it makes no sense that every AD System is running the Search radar. We used only one System for around 10 Minutes and than used another System. If we saw a target the other AD Systems would be informed via the Radio and starts running there own Search Radar. If the DEV needs any help or input for the AD model of I would be glad to help! Anyway, a good game!

[CapnDarwin]

Do you happen to know the dates when Stingers entered service in West Germany? Our info could be off. We can also consider if things went hot in 89 the US may have pushed stingers to NATO allies.

As for the search radars. The current always on, will be getting a revamp in Southern Storm and we plan to allow the player to set the level of active radar scanning. That should address the always on problem. Any ideas or information you want to pass along is welcome. Use the Suggestions sub forum for any thoughts.

Thanks for your help.

[clodhellmer]

Only for the army air defence. 1993 for the first units, 1995 for the last one. We used the EURO-STINGER System, producded in the EU. Well, maybe. But nobody had the training to use the STINGER.

[Mad Russian]

There was also a shortage of Stingers for awhile as the US supplied Afghan Rebels with them to shoot down Soviet helicopters in another theater.

Good Hunting.

MR