On the fence

[genehaynes]

Looking for opinions regarding the differences between ToTH and John Tiller's squad battles game such as Advance of the Reich. I really like AoTR, just wondering if there's that big of a difference between the two. Also, does the inability to see "viewable & reachable" hexes
(Both features are available in Tiller's game) have a negative impact on the game? I realize ToTH is a one man show, and I appreciate that. So I guess it might be unfair to expect all the "bells and whistles" included in games with a lot more resources behind them.Just wondering what you guys think.

[Gerry4321]

It is a long time since I played AoTR so I cannot remember gameplay that well.

But IIRC you could choose AP vs APCR? Can do this in TotH.

Also ToTH has more small scenarios which I like sometimes. Also tons of created and ported scenarios already.

ToTH is still missing quite a few features as you have probably seen from the threads.

[genesismwt]

I have not played AotR, but I will say TotH offers a blank slate that will allow recreation of any small unit action in the Western Theater. Maps can be as small as you want, and as large as roughly 10km by 4km in area. American, British, German and Russian units are represented. Axis and Allied Minor units can be represented by the second line, conscript and green units of the aforementioned nationalities.

I do not have trouble with movement. Just figure 4 points for infantry, 6 with a leader. Add two if you double-time. Open ground costs one point. Anything else costs two. Going uphill doubles it all. Vehicles don't have printed values but generally figure 12. Make a test scenario with no terrain and count how far each vehicle can go. TotH will show the last hex that you can move into when you are in the next to last.

[idjester]

On of the biggest differences is with SB you have limited control over defensive fire. This is done for you by the computer. In TOTH the defensive file process is a very important part of the sequence of the game and the outcome of the scenario and you have full control over it.

Therefore, you really don't have full control over your units in SB and you can get some bad results or get some bad luck with the computers controlled defensive part of SB. This gives me a feeling of being out of control of my units, and not having control over the outcome of the scenario.

In TOTH I have full control over everything and therefore if I win or lose it's not up to the computers, it's up to me and how I do in a scenario.

[Rakkasan101]

Well, not knowing who's gonna shoot is half the fun of Squad Battles! SB is way more about command and control, and also a blast to play online.

But yes, I think what is comes down to is that in ToTH and ASL, the majority of the game happens in movement/Defensive Fire. That's where %90 of the decision making goes on. That gut-wrenching feeling of shooting or holding fire. Of course, fire in ToTH/ASL, every shot has the potential to be a game-changer. That's just not the case in SB. The only reason not to shoot is to conserve ammo.

[Richie61]

It depends on what you are looking for in a game. Both have good AI IMHO.

For the record. You do have control over defensive fire in SB. It's called "hold fire". [;)] You can control every weapon. Hold fire AT weapons, hold fire on MG's and keep SMG's ready for close range enemies.

PBEM:
SB - yes
TotH - no

Control of each small arm of a unit. Meaning I can shot my MG-42 at this unit, rifles at another and MP-40 at yet another.
SB - yes
TotH - no

Theaters of operation. Locations.
SB - need different titles for Eastern Front (AotR and RV) and ETO (Eagles Strike) - Pacific titles too.
TotH - ETO and Eastern Front 1939 - 1945.

Map editor:
SB - no
TotH - yes

Scenario editor:
SB - yes
TotH - yes

OOB editor: build different types of squads based on years and weapons
SB - yes
TotH - no

Mods:
SB - yes
TotH - yes (graphic only)

I have both titles and LOVE both. [:)] But I would buy Red Victory before AotR, but both are a must [:)]
Good place for SB ideas and questions.
http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/ ... php?fid=13

Oh and I have done a few mods for both [:D]

SB:




TotH:

[Peter Fisla]

In TotH, you can create OOB as well but it is scenario specific

[Richie61]

Peter,

Opps. I stand corrected. [:)]

I guess I meant more like number of men in a squad and what equipment they are carrying.