Why this vs. ASL

[robarrieta]

Can someone give me a good reason why I should purchase this when I can play ASL online vs a human opponent?

[kylania]

Because you can play this vs the computer anytime you want.

[decaf]

The flow of TOTH is much faster. Stack management and status counters are great.
Takes up less space than the physical ASL. Costs much less than the comparable modules.
TOTH resolves LOS, and does it to the pixel level(!).

The best is that Fog of War is honest-to-God hidden units. No stacks with concealment
masking and dummy counters. If you don't have a LOS, you see nothing at all. Enemy stacks can disappear.

[rico21]

Because we would like you to join our hard-core wargamers community...
Welcome,

[DoubleDeuce]

I don't think it should be a choice between one or the other if that is what the OP is implying. I have played SL and ASL since they were were first released. Many, many years ago, Steel Panthers was hailed as the PC version of ASL, it's not and to this day, I still play it as well. TotH is clearly based on 'SL/ASL' but I don't think its meant to be a replacement, it just fills a PC based ASL Player vs AI void for those of us who would like to see something like that.

[MrsWargamer]

Well with ASL you fight the manual as much if not more the opponent. With a program, well you can yell but nothing happens.

I know how fun it is to store a complete collection of ASL. TotH is kinda easy to store.

Yes ASL has that tactile thing going. It's not infinitely thrilling though. Like knocking the board.

I can shake my laptop and nothing happens.

ASL has a lot of interesting qualities, but really, I sold mine. Many reasons. One that I have pondered some lately, is ASL can be described as a woman with a pound of make up on. It's just not going to look great.

I scrounged up some old Squad Leader stuff. I'm going to take a few aspects of CoI and CoD and maybe GI, but I'm planning to just play it as mostly Squad Leader. The game became famous via Squad Leader, not ASL.

Sometimes historical accuracy is just a disguise for 'bloated beyond practical use".

In the fullness of time, I can see myself maybe playing TotH vs an old buddy of mine (the one who bought the ASL actually. He's in Texas and it won't matter. He might even buy me my copy if I ask him real nice.

If you already own ASL, and play it at least once a month, you might find TotH unnecessary.
I owned all of ASL and have not been able to play it really this century.

All the greatness of ASL didn't make any difference. And VASL is not the great thing a lot want to believe. You still need the physical game. And all the hassle of using the physical game. You might as well be playing TotH if you plan to be in front of a computer.

[genesismwt]

To what everyone above has said, AMEN!

I have played Squad Leader(SL) since 1978. My only regret is that I don't have a Purple box SL(original print run).

This has 85-90% of ASL. But, it contains the parts that matter. TotH lets you play Squad Leader(SL) at any time of your choosing.

Here goes my rant: I am finding that I am in idjester's camp in that what has been left out is mostly unnecessary complexity. SL and ASLSK play fine without snipers. Walls, hedges, gullies, smoke, bypass movement, fire lanes, heroes, manhandling, overruns, infantry overruns,dash, street fighting, cavalry, motorcycles etc. all add flavor, but at a huge cost in complexity. However, the lack of these items in TotH does not prevent one from playing a game of SL. I have yet to play a game of SL that involves climbing. I figure one in three successful foxhole attempts actually provided value. That's something like a ten percent success rate for having dug a foxhole in game. Or, in other words, I could just have just done something else productive.

I would like to point out what TotH has going for it:

Convenience: you can play at any time that you can be at your computer. Set up is done in a handful of minutes, instead of an hour. Heck, once familiar with the editor, you can make a scenario in the time it takes to dig out maps and pieces, and set up. You don't have to bone up on any esoteric rules that are specific to the scenario that you are playing. If its in TotH, the computer pretty much takes care of that for you. If you can't finish in one setting, there's a quick and easy save game feature(as any computer game should have).

Focus: TotH lets you focus on what matters, fire and movement. Rallying and repairs are automatically done by the computer. Attacks and the resulting effects are resolved by the computer. Some complain about the lack of information provided by the game. At first, I lamented that I felt that half of the fun was looking at the charts and fretting over the odds before I throw the dice. In the end though, the odds don't matter when you only have one action available. You do what you have to do, or die trying. I don't need a chart to tell me that running in the open in front of a heavy machine gun(HMG) that has not yet fired has a low chance of success. It doesn't matter whether the HMG as 6, 7 or 8 FP, you still have a low chance of success running in the open in front of that HMG. If you have to try, you try. I don't need the charts to know that the only chance that my Sherman tank has to kill a King Tiger is to flank it. TotH lets me focus on the fire and maneuver, not on the math and the dice rolling it takes to complete the fire and maneuver that's required in SL.

Cost effectiveness: For the $50.00(add $10.00 if you also want a hard copy) you are effectively getting all of the ASLSK's, Beyond Valor, Yanks, and For King and Country(with the Desert boards added, El Alamein now too!). With a little imagination, the flavor of the other modules can be captured also. A prior poster in this thread made an excellent Pacific scenario, Makin Atoll Raid, simulating Marine raiders by using elite US Army, and using the British for the Japanese.

Thanks for letting me rant. I am in no way dissing ASL, I wouldn't be here if I didn't love ASL. Should some of my previously noted unnecessary features of ASL show up in future TotH updates, will I embrace them? Of course! I am just saying that I don't need a wall or smoke to cover movement, I will find another way. Sometimes you don't have those things when or where you would like them in your game of ASL. I appreciate TotH for what it is, SL on the computer(finally! Thanks Peter!).

[gregb41352]

+1

[Sigma8510]

+2

[waltero]

Well said.
I think I shall make a purchase...I hope the AI keeps me entertained[&o]

I was thinking about it- Hot seat might work out better than ASL...eliminating the Rule book will save a lot of time!

Sorry if It seemed like I was lambasting da game. I was pushing for Multiplayer(that's all)...I will settle for hot seat.[:D]
If you are an ASL fan, you should buy this game.

Keep up the good work.

[baloo7777]

+1

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: genesismwt

To what everyone above has said, AMEN!

I have played Squad Leader(SL) since 1978. My only regret is that I don't have a Purple box SL(original print run).

This has 85-90% of ASL. But, it contains the parts that matter. TotH lets you play Squad Leader(SL) at any time of your choosing.

Here goes my rant: I am finding that I am in idjester's camp in that what has been left out is mostly unnecessary complexity. SL and ASLSK play fine without snipers. Walls, hedges, gullies, smoke, bypass movement, fire lanes, heroes, manhandling, overruns, infantry overruns,dash, street fighting, cavalry, motorcycles etc. all add flavor, but at a huge cost in complexity. However, the lack of these items in TotH does not prevent one from playing a game of SL. I have yet to play a game of SL that involves climbing. I figure one in three successful foxhole attempts actually provided value. That's something like a ten percent success rate for having dug a foxhole in game. Or, in other words, I could just have just done something else productive.

I would like to point out what TotH has going for it:

Convenience: you can play at any time that you can be at your computer. Set up is done in a handful of minutes, instead of an hour. Heck, once familiar with the editor, you can make a scenario in the time it takes to dig out maps and pieces, and set up. You don't have to bone up on any esoteric rules that are specific to the scenario that you are playing. If its in TotH, the computer pretty much takes care of that for you. If you can't finish in one setting, there's a quick and easy save game feature(as an computer game should have).

Focus: TotH lets you focus on what matters, fire and movement. Rallying and repairs are automatically done by the computer. Attacks and the resulting effects are resolved by the computer. Some complain about the lack of information provided by the game. At first, I lamented that I felt that half of the fun was looking at the charts and fretting over the odds before I throw the dice. In the end though, the odds don't matter when you only have one action available. You do what you have to do, or die trying. I don't need a chart to tell me that running in the open in front of a heavy machine gun(HMG) that has not yet fired has a low chance of success. It doesn't matter whether the HMG as 6, 7 or 8 FP, you still have a low chance of success running in the open in front of that HMG. If you have to try, you try. I don't need the charts to know that the only chance that my Sherman tank has to kill a King Tiger is to flank it. TotH lets me focus on the fire and maneuver, not on the math and the dice rolling it takes to complete the fire and maneuver that's required in SL.

Cost effectiveness: For the $50.00(add $10.00 if you also want a hard copy) you are effectively getting all of the ASLSK's, Beyond Valor, Yanks, and For King and Country(with the Desert boards added, El Alamein now too!). With a little imagination, the flavor of the other modules can be captured also. A prior poster in this thread made an excellent Pacific scenario, Makin Atoll Raid, simulating Marine raiders by using elite US Army, and using the British for the Japanese.

Thanks for letting me rant. I am in no way dissing ASL, I wouldn't be here if I didn't love ASL. Should some of my previously noted unnecessary features of ASL show up in future TotH updates, will I embrace them? Of course! I am just saying that I don't need a wall or smoke to cover movement, I will find another way. Sometimes you don't have those things when or where you would like them in your game of ASL. I appreciate TotH for what it is, SL on the computer(finally! Thanks Peter!).

Wow, thank you for your support genesismwt!

[shaddock]

One word... CAT!

[kylania]

ORIGINAL: shaddock

One word... CAT!

There's no escaping the cat!

[Paullus]

FOBA = Feline Off Board Artillery [:D]

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: genesismwt

To what everyone above has said, AMEN!

I have played Squad Leader(SL) since 1978. My only regret is that I don't have a Purple box SL(original print run).

This has 85-90% of ASL. But, it contains the parts that matter. TotH lets you play Squad Leader(SL) at any time of your choosing.

Here goes my rant: I am finding that I am in idjester's camp in that what has been left out is mostly unnecessary complexity. SL and ASLSK play fine without snipers. Walls, hedges, gullies, smoke, bypass movement, fire lanes, heroes, manhandling, overruns, infantry overruns,dash, street fighting, cavalry, motorcycles etc. all add flavor, but at a huge cost in complexity. However, the lack of these items in TotH does not prevent one from playing a game of SL. I have yet to play a game of SL that involves climbing. I figure one in three successful foxhole attempts actually provided value. That's something like a ten percent success rate for having dug a foxhole in game. Or, in other words, I could just have just done something else productive.

I would like to point out what TotH has going for it:

Convenience: you can play at any time that you can be at your computer. Set up is done in a handful of minutes, instead of an hour. Heck, once familiar with the editor, you can make a scenario in the time it takes to dig out maps and pieces, and set up. You don't have to bone up on any esoteric rules that are specific to the scenario that you are playing. If its in TotH, the computer pretty much takes care of that for you. If you can't finish in one setting, there's a quick and easy save game feature(as any computer game should have).

Focus: TotH lets you focus on what matters, fire and movement. Rallying and repairs are automatically done by the computer. Attacks and the resulting effects are resolved by the computer. Some complain about the lack of information provided by the game. At first, I lamented that I felt that half of the fun was looking at the charts and fretting over the odds before I throw the dice. In the end though, the odds don't matter when you only have one action available. You do what you have to do, or die trying. I don't need a chart to tell me that running in the open in front of a heavy machine gun(HMG) that has not yet fired has a low chance of success. It doesn't matter whether the HMG as 6, 7 or 8 FP, you still have a low chance of success running in the open in front of that HMG. If you have to try, you try. I don't need the charts to know that the only chance that my Sherman tank has to kill a King Tiger is to flank it. TotH lets me focus on the fire and maneuver, not on the math and the dice rolling it takes to complete the fire and maneuver that's required in SL.

Cost effectiveness: For the $50.00(add $10.00 if you also want a hard copy) you are effectively getting all of the ASLSK's, Beyond Valor, Yanks, and For King and Country(with the Desert boards added, El Alamein now too!). With a little imagination, the flavor of the other modules can be captured also. A prior poster in this thread made an excellent Pacific scenario, Makin Atoll Raid, simulating Marine raiders by using elite US Army, and using the British for the Japanese.

Thanks for letting me rant. I am in no way dissing ASL, I wouldn't be here if I didn't love ASL. Should some of my previously noted unnecessary features of ASL show up in future TotH updates, will I embrace them? Of course! I am just saying that I don't need a wall or smoke to cover movement, I will find another way. Sometimes you don't have those things when or where you would like them in your game of ASL. I appreciate TotH for what it is, SL on the computer(finally! Thanks Peter!).

Nice post.

[SteveD64]

There's no escaping the cat!

How did you get your game board to go full screen?

[kylania]

ORIGINAL: CLEVELAND

How did you get your game board to go full screen?

Oh I didn't, that's just poor photoshopping.

[shaddock]

My wife (whom knows nothing about war games) loved the pic [:D]

[Wolfe1759]

ORIGINAL: genesismwt

To what everyone above has said, AMEN!

I have played Squad Leader(SL) since 1978. My only regret is that I don't have a Purple box SL(original print run).

This has 85-90% of ASL. But, it contains the parts that matter. TotH lets you play Squad Leader(SL) at any time of your choosing.

Here goes my rant: I am finding that I am in idjester's camp in that what has been left out is mostly unnecessary complexity. SL and ASLSK play fine without snipers. Walls, hedges, gullies, smoke, bypass movement, fire lanes, heroes, manhandling, overruns, infantry overruns,dash, street fighting, cavalry, motorcycles etc. all add flavor, but at a huge cost in complexity. However, the lack of these items in TotH does not prevent one from playing a game of SL. I have yet to play a game of SL that involves climbing. I figure one in three successful foxhole attempts actually provided value. That's something like a ten percent success rate for having dug a foxhole in game. Or, in other words, I could just have just done something else productive.

I would like to point out what TotH has going for it:

Convenience: you can play at any time that you can be at your computer. Set up is done in a handful of minutes, instead of an hour. Heck, once familiar with the editor, you can make a scenario in the time it takes to dig out maps and pieces, and set up. You don't have to bone up on any esoteric rules that are specific to the scenario that you are playing. If its in TotH, the computer pretty much takes care of that for you. If you can't finish in one setting, there's a quick and easy save game feature(as any computer game should have).

Focus: TotH lets you focus on what matters, fire and movement. Rallying and repairs are automatically done by the computer. Attacks and the resulting effects are resolved by the computer. Some complain about the lack of information provided by the game. At first, I lamented that I felt that half of the fun was looking at the charts and fretting over the odds before I throw the dice. In the end though, the odds don't matter when you only have one action available. You do what you have to do, or die trying. I don't need a chart to tell me that running in the open in front of a heavy machine gun(HMG) that has not yet fired has a low chance of success. It doesn't matter whether the HMG as 6, 7 or 8 FP, you still have a low chance of success running in the open in front of that HMG. If you have to try, you try. I don't need the charts to know that the only chance that my Sherman tank has to kill a King Tiger is to flank it. TotH lets me focus on the fire and maneuver, not on the math and the dice rolling it takes to complete the fire and maneuver that's required in SL.

Cost effectiveness: For the $50.00(add $10.00 if you also want a hard copy) you are effectively getting all of the ASLSK's, Beyond Valor, Yanks, and For King and Country(with the Desert boards added, El Alamein now too!). With a little imagination, the flavor of the other modules can be captured also. A prior poster in this thread made an excellent Pacific scenario, Makin Atoll Raid, simulating Marine raiders by using elite US Army, and using the British for the Japanese.

Thanks for letting me rant. I am in no way dissing ASL, I wouldn't be here if I didn't love ASL. Should some of my previously noted unnecessary features of ASL show up in future TotH updates, will I embrace them? Of course! I am just saying that I don't need a wall or smoke to cover movement, I will find another way. Sometimes you don't have those things when or where you would like them in your game of ASL. I appreciate TotH for what it is, SL on the computer(finally! Thanks Peter!).

Another +1

TotH feels (particularly with the graphics mods) like a cleaned up SL (with the good bits of CoI and CoD and GI), yes there are some details that have been left out but I don't really feel that they are missing.