Carrier Battles are frustrating

[mcp5500]

Carrier Battles are frustrating because it does not matter what ships you put into the carrier group. when the kates finally get past your cap, the other ships, regardless of their AA skill set, never support the carriers. all of the plains always attack the carrier. The number does not get reduced getting to the carrier. if 7 get through the cap, 7 attack the carrier. IT is only protected by the carrier AA score. There is no difference if my task group is one CV, 2BBs,1CA,2CLAA,8DDs compared to 1CV and 6 Destroyers. I do not see the point in forming large ship CV TFs. I am suppose to hope some of the plans go for the BBs? I have been playing the Guad. update1 scenario (Jan 24 1943). My first and i find this as terribly flaud.

[Lowpe]

You are sadly mistaken. Task force composition for defense against planes is very deep and nuanced.

[Yaab]

mcp5500, you may find this thread interesting:

tm.asp?m=3563689&mpage=1&key=�

Basically, you need to stuff your CV TF with as many big caliber DP guns as possible.

[John 3rd]

I cannot describe how many times I have watched my Japanese aircraft attack everything BUT the CV OR they hit the CV and don't finish her by diverting over to other targets.

[Lokasenna]

Not to mention, it will show the planes "attacking" the carrier, but the AA fire doesn't happen until those attack runs, so... you will see "G4M1 Betty destroyed by flak" a bunch, for example, before you even hear any torpedo splashes - the planes themselves are getting splashed by AA before they can drop. That's what AA does in this game.

[mcp5500]

Ugh!!! When I get back to my computer I will look to see if and what other ships had fired during the turn. So frustrating. Thanks

[wdolson]

If the TF had been attacked before, the ships may be out of or low on AA ammo. That is the primary reason AA doesn't engage attacking enemy aircraft.

Bill

[Treetop64]

ORIGINAL: mcp5500

Carrier Battles are frustrating because it does not matter what ships you put into the carrier group. when the kates finally get past your cap, the other ships, regardless of their AA skill set, never support the carriers. all of the plains always attack the carrier. The number does not get reduced getting to the carrier. if 7 get through the cap, 7 attack the carrier. IT is only protected by the carrier AA score. There is no difference if my task group is one CV, 2BBs,1CA,2CLAA,8DDs compared to 1CV and 6 Destroyers. I do not see the point in forming large ship CV TFs. I am suppose to hope some of the plans go for the BBs? I have been playing the Guad. update1 scenario (Jan 24 1943). My first and i find this as terribly flaud.

To put it simply:

IJN CV air attacks will almost always prioritize your carriers as the target to go after, no matter the composition of your CV group. However, the amount of additional anti-air assets does affect how much the attacking air formations are softened up before they drop their bombs and torpedoes.

For example, assuming you have attack animations turned on:

If you have a CV escorted by just a pair of old DDs with obsolete AA hardware, attacking aircraft that survived the CAP will perhaps fly through only one animation sequence of weak AAA fire that has little or no effect before they drop their payloads. Sometimes they may drop their payloads without any indication at all of being fired at by your AAA gunners; they just fly in, bomb and torpedo your carrier, and leave unscathed.

On the other hand, lets say you have a powerful 2 or 3 CV group that includes a number of CAs, CLs, CLAAs, and a dozen or more DDs to cap out the 25 ship Carrier TF maximum, all with up-to-date DP guns and systems from the most recent overhaul. In this case, you will see enemy aircraft formations who survived the CAP flying through multiple animation sequences of heavy AAA fire that damages and destroys a significant number of the incoming aircraft before they drop their payloads. The more intense your AAA protection, the more intense and lengthy these sequences are. Any survivors will still very likely go after your carriers (bypassing and getting shot at by everything else along the way), but they will have been severely depleted and shaken up, and are more likely to miss when they do drop their bombs or torpedoes. Then they'll be shot at some more - with the same intensity - as they attempt to egress.

[mcp5500]

You guys are great. You brought me back from pure frustration. The IJN carriers in this campain are killing me (IJN AI). I will now look at CV TF more carefully. IJN carrier planes have a further reach and are always hitting me first. My F4 only have a reach of 6 while the Zero is 8. I hold Lunga securely and have 2 div at Port M. With the AI still having all of his carriers, he is killing PM. Every time I position myself to defend, my carriers get killed. I am venting. Thanks for your help.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: mcp5500

You guys are great. You brought me back from pure frustration. The IJN carriers in this campain are killing me (IJN AI). I will now look at CV TF more carefully. IJN carrier planes have a further reach and are always hitting me first. My F4 only have a reach of 6 while the Zero is 8. I hold Lunga securely and have 2 div at Port M. With the AI still having all of his carriers, he is killing PM. Every time I position myself to defend, my carriers get killed. I am venting. Thanks for your help.

Keep in mind you have two things to deal with here. The first is learning the game, which has it's own way of doing things. The second is that the game tries to be true to reality (can only get so close, but it tries very hard). And that means that in addition to learning how the game functions and the mechanics (buttons to push) to get it to do what you intend, you also have all the disadvantages that the Allies had early on. The good news is that you can start over 10 or 20 or as many times as you like and try different things, learning each time. [8D]

[jmalter]

hi mcp5500,
The longer 'reach' of the IJN CV airgroups is hard-coded into the game - IJN will launch strikes out to range 8, Allies only out to range 7, regardless of a greater range-setting given to the individual embarked airgroups.
You might also re-think your CAP settings. I got the perhaps-mistaken impression that you set your CAP range > 0, this is unneccessary & will actually disperse your CAP. Use a fighter range > 0 only for non-CAP groups that are escorting your own strike airgroups.
Finally, CV TF composition is a v. personal thing, but it's usually not a good idea to max out the # of ships, as you greatly increase the chance of random collision damage, & will have a lot of thirsty ships clamoring for fuel replenishment!
You'll find that including a modern fast BB (w/ a cruise speed of 4) in your CV TFs will not only greatly increase the # of 5" AA guns in the TF, but the BB will also attract enemy strike aircraft to itself, away from your CVs, unlike the lighter CL & DD escorts that are generally ignored.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: mcp5500

You guys are great. You brought me back from pure frustration. The IJN carriers in this campain are killing me (IJN AI). I will now look at CV TF more carefully. IJN carrier planes have a further reach and are always hitting me first. My F4 only have a reach of 6 while the Zero is 8. I hold Lunga securely and have 2 div at Port M. With the AI still having all of his carriers, he is killing PM. Every time I position myself to defend, my carriers get killed. I am venting. Thanks for your help.

What time frame are you in? Keep in mind that the KB is the 600lb gorilla in the room early game. The Japaneese are well trained and led.

[BattleMoose]

If you want to make sure that your other ships AA is helping, just check their ammunition after the battle, they should have fired shells. They also don't carry enough shells for my liking, so the latter air strikes can encounter much less flak as ammunition is conserved. You need 5inch guns or larger to protect other ships with AA.

They are supposed to go for your CVs, to the exclusion of everything else.