Training question

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

the Japanese have a lot of transport capacity that they don't need

Hey Gorn I haven't gotten very far into the game yet but my tranports are always busy. Between humpin' sumtin' here and there, or just training themselves up so I can cut my op losses. I guess maybe later in the game. Even then I still have ideas for them. The Japanese have bunches of units that are air transportable and my plans call for using these as an RDF of sorts. I just wish I had more transports for this. Guess I could use bombers to assist on a short term basis. Just MHO.[:)]

Have a factory of some size, (any size) turning out Tinas, they're invaluable.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Malagant

it's the actual mechanic of getting them from the training squadron in to the front line squadron that's eluding me!

For managing your pilots take a look at the screenshot.

1. Takes you to the pilots screen shown on bottom part of screenshot.
2. Use these links for drawing pilots (only active when squadron is short pilots, this one is greyed out as there is no more room for additional pilots)
3. You can specify what experience ratings the game engine should try and draw for you here. Non-training groups should be set to manual control for drawing pilots.
4. Use these buttons to dump trained pilots into a pool.
5. Specifies what pool pilots will be dumped into.

Jim

[rustysi]

Have a factory of some size, (any size) turning out Tinas, they're invaluable.

Yep, and I do. Love their range. Of course in scen 1 none are in production at start, but I start one![8D]

[rustysi]

Jim

Yup, what Jim said. I never looked at it that way either. I do prefer manual though, more time, but more control.

[alimentary]

ORIGINAL: Malagant
I want to train USAAF bomber pilots. I have a nice squadron of 20 bombers sitting out of the way. (On a tangent, it needs Air Support to fix planes that break during training, and supply to replace planes lost during training...does it need an HQa nearby?)

Yes, it needs aviation support. No, it does not need an air HQ.

I pick one Veteran to be the boss. He should have high Inspiration and Admin?

If you look in the Pilot Management Addendum.pdf in the manuals folder under your installation directory there are some additional details. I believe that this document is created when you install the beta. In particular...

"Groups will also gain skill and experience (after passing a training check against the training percent of the group) at the end of each day:

1. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less than the overall group experience level

2. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less than the leader’s skill"

So an ideal squadron leader will have good skill in the skill being trained and will have high experience. I believe, but am not certain, that leadership improves training rate while inspiration improves morale recovery.

I then toggle the Auto/Manual thingie to Manual. I cycle thru the "From..." thingie to Replacements, and fill up the roster with nuggets fresh from flight school.

I set the squadron to Train, Ground Attack, 100%, any altitude?, and 0 Range.

Good.

I leave it alone for awhile, check on it periodically. When a pilot is done (70 in the skill I want, 50 exp), I want to get him in to the Reserve Pool. I don't see a direct way to do that...I just have the release highest or lowest experience pilot of group of 5 pilots. I can toggle a pilot to not be released, which allows some control over who is released, but super click intensive. Is there an easier way? Clicking on a specific pilot only seems to allow toggling between active or inactive in the group?

Click into "Pilots". Click on the column heading for "Grdb" to sort by ground bombing skill. Go to the bottom of page. Select "reserve" for the To Pool target. Release pilots in groups of 1, 5 or 10 until you have drained the desired highly trained pilots into the reserve.

Then re-fill with rookies

Now I've got some trained pilots from my bomber squad in the Reserve pool. I go to a 'front-line' unit that needs newly trained pilots, I toggle the "From..." thingie to Reserve, and Get New Pilot? Or Get Veteran and toggle the Show Pool to Reserve and select the pilot(s) I'd just released?

Click "request veteran". You will get a display of available pilots. If it is displaying pilots in other groups, switch to the reserve instead on the top of that page. Sort the reservists by the desired characteristic (experience, ground bombing skill). Release in groups of 1, 5 or 10 pilots into the group. The mechanics on this page look just like the mechanics when you are releasing pilots from group into reserve. It's just that this time you are doing it in reverse. Adding pilots from the reserve in this manner (rather than picking individual pilots from the available roster) means that they arrive in your squadron with a delay of only 1.

A delay of 1 means that the pilot is in the group but is not on active duty. That is to say that he is in the "group reserve". Back on the main display for the squadron, the number of available pilots will show as, for instance, 1(5). If the squadron is not completely overfilled you can now click "add new pilot" to pull out of the group reserve and put a pilot on active duty. If the group is maxed out you can go into the Pilots display, select To Pool = Active and "release" pilots in groups of 1, 5 or 10 to active duty.

[Malagant]

You guys are so awesome, thank you all!!

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

any altitude?

15k is fine.

I just have the release highest or lowest experience pilot of group of 5 pilots

Don't use this its not what you think.

I use this all the time and is has worked well. It released the highest experienced pilots into the reserve. I agree it does not release the pilots with the highest specific skills you are looking for like Sweep for example.

If you have trained your pilots correctly, then typically pilots with the highest experience typically have good specific skills as well.

Also, when you pull pilots into a squadron in bulk, the program is smart enough to put the highest correct skill, like high Sweep values in fighter groups and will not assign pilots that have high Ground Bombing skills as an example. Plus I find it is easier to do bulk moves of pilots. Then I can easily scan the AGs pilot list to see if any odd ducks [:)] have been assigned. If so just send them back to the pool.

Some people like to do detailed pilot management, I am obviously not one of them. You can certainly have a great game and a lot of fun without taking on this additional chore. But if you want to min/max the game, you will need to. Just realize it is another time sink that can extend the amount of time you will need to spend on your turns.

[geofflambert]

Returning to the subject of using (as the Japanese) transports to train pilots (primarily fighter pilots) some of the considerations are: moving supplies and/or resources around with air transports is ridiculously inefficient, it should only be done in desperation. Also, the Japanese have done an extremely poor job of developing an air crew reserve, so you must make up for that as best you can. This is acutely the case with the IJN and you need to get the IJA to take over whatever duties they can to allow the IJN to develop carrier air reserves. Using IJA transports in this regard (not IJN mind you, they'll be plenty busy) has certain advantages, among them using general training on replacements brings up their def skills as well as their overall experience levels. I can't stress enough how important this is for fighter pilots, who, if you just train them in escort/sweep will be woefully vulnerable in def and exp.. Some train them in strafing and low ground attack to achieve good def numbers, but I advise against using fighters that way because of the attrition. You can't do this with the IJN so you have to use float planes for that, but I recommend just training in specialties there, and for the most part that should be directed toward future bomber crews, naval search, naval attack and ASW.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

ORIGINAL: rustysi

any altitude?

15k is fine.

I just have the release highest or lowest experience pilot of group of 5 pilots

Don't use this its not what you think.

I use this all the time and is has worked well. It released the highest experienced pilots into the reserve. I agree it does not release the pilots with the highest specific skills you are looking for like Sweep for example.

If you have trained your pilots correctly, then typically pilots with the highest experience typically have good specific skills as well.

Also, when you pull pilots into a squadron in bulk, the program is smart enough to put the highest correct skill, like high Sweep values in fighter groups and will not assign pilots that have high Ground Bombing skills as an example. Plus I find it is easier to do bulk moves of pilots. Then I can easily scan the AGs pilot list to see if any odd ducks [:)] have been assigned. If so just send them back to the pool.

Some people like to do detailed pilot management, I am obviously not one of them. You can certainly have a great game and a lot of fun without taking on this additional chore. But if you want to min/max the game, you will need to. Just realize it is another time sink that can extend the amount of time you will need to spend on your turns.

You can sort by skills by clicking on the skill column header. Then when you release pilots either to or from the reserve you can do so by skill, not just experience. I use this to, say move in a group of torp skilled bomber pilots into VTs and such.

[msieving1]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I just have the release highest or lowest experience pilot of group of 5 pilots

Don't use this its not what you think.

I use this all the time and is has worked well. It released the highest experienced pilots into the reserve. I agree it does not release the pilots with the highest specific skills you are looking for like Sweep for example.

It works for specific skills as well. Click on the column headers to sort by the skill you're interested in, then click the release button.

[Thayne]

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Make certain you also set their range to zero otherwise they will take a lot of ops losses as they learn to fly out at range and forget where they are.....

Roger

I have seen people say this quite often.

I have just finished 1942 against the AI. I NEVER have set the range to 0. (I think training MUST include training on how to fly to a distant target and back, including targets that are near the end of the plane's maximum range. It may not be captured in the game, but that's how I play.)

And I NEVER get ops losses in my training squadrons.

And by 'never' I mean, literally, never. Squadrons that have been training for over 380 days have not lost a plane.

I have training squadrons using a single type of plane (e.g., P-26). I have planes in the pool. I have just as many planes in the pool now as I had a year ago.

Every 7 days, I use Tracker to (1) determine what airplanes I have of a particular type in my pools, and (2) determine what squadrons are flying that plane. I have a policy of bringing all squadrons up to full if possible. Training squadrons never show a loss.

Oh, and - for example - in December 1942, I have over 700 pilots in my pool that are 50+ experience, 70+ air, 70+ strafing and 70 (+ or -) defense. I do a lot of training.

I haven't checked fatigue. But, I figure, if my trainees are not at least a little fatigued, I am not working them hard enough.

[HansBolter]

+1

My experience is the same.

Have never set training squadrons to zero range and never lose planes from those squadrons.

I believe this is urban legend.

I have found fatigue climbs into the low 20s if set to 100% training.

Reducing training to 80% results in fatigue from 0-5.

15k isn't fine. Altitude determines which skill gets trained.

Ground Attack training above 1k trains Ground Attack

Ground Attack at 1k trains Low Ground

Ground Attack at 100 feet trains Strafing.

The same is true for Naval Attack training with respect to training NAV, LOWNAV and STRAFE.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Thayne

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Make certain you also set their range to zero otherwise they will take a lot of ops losses as they learn to fly out at range and forget where they are.....

Roger

I have seen people say this quite often.

I have just finished 1942 against the AI. I NEVER have set the range to 0. (I think training MUST include training on how to fly to a distant target and back, including targets that are near the end of the plane's maximum range. It may not be captured in the game, but that's how I play.)

And I NEVER get ops losses in my training squadrons.

And by 'never' I mean, literally, never. Squadrons that have been training for over 380 days have not lost a plane.

I have training squadrons using a single type of plane (e.g., P-26). I have planes in the pool. I have just as many planes in the pool now as I had a year ago.

Every 7 days, I use Tracker to (1) determine what airplanes I have of a particular type in my pools, and (2) determine what squadrons are flying that plane. I have a policy of bringing all squadrons up to full if possible. Training squadrons never show a loss.

Oh, and - for example - in December 1942, I have over 700 pilots in my pool that are 50+ experience, 70+ air, 70+ strafing and 70 (+ or -) defense. I do a lot of training.

I haven't checked fatigue. But, I figure, if my trainees are not at least a little fatigued, I am not working them hard enough.

This plus several other myths which are commonly accepted as true were raised by me, in post #10 from last September, in this thread.

tm.asp?m=3698772&mpage=1&key=pilot%2Ctraining&#3700169

There are other myths regularly trotted out re other aspects of the game but pilot training and air operations is probably the area most sinned against.

I am not surprised that you have never experienced any op losses in your training squadrons. However, for the sake of completeness, I will point out that op losses can occur in training but at such a low rate as to completely pass notice unless one is extremely vigilant. If the training parameters I set out in the above thread are followed, one will be extremely unlucky to experience more than 1 ops loss per training unit each year even at 100% training. Usually the loss rate will be less than 1 per year.

Alfred

[geofflambert]

Well, I never ever set training squadrons to anything other than zero, except when I forget to. I'm pretty sure I've had ops losses as well as pilots killed in crashes while training, but it's not frequent if it happens at all. Fatigue is a major factor and if it's too high learning slows down I believe. I see no benefit to having the range above zero. I mean, I can efficiently train squadrons in ASW in the middle of a desert where the sea is beyond their range anyway. Same for Naval Search, Naval Attack even with torpedoes. [:D] Thud.

[margeorg]

Well, I didn´t see any ops losses as well. The only difference that range=0 makes is that even at 100% training the fatigue stays at 0 or 1. Which can be of importance if you need to get the squad into service without delay.

[jmalter]

Well my practice has been, to set all my training airgroups at rng=0. Their altitude is standardized at 5k', but I adjust that to 2k' for LowN / LowG training, 1k' for ASW training, 100' for Strafe training.

'S true that I just don't ever get any losses from training, no matter the mission or altitude.

But the alt of 5k' (or less) & the range=0 keeps the group's planes / pilots from gathering fatigue.

IMO a more 'realistic' game-engine would need to bring a huge increase to ops-losses from Training (one a day at Tampa Bay wasn't just a truism), I will assign Training to minimize plane & pilot fatigue.

Can any poster document higher training-improvement at range>0, or alt>5k' ?

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

Well my practice has been, to set all my training airgroups at rng=0. Their altitude is standardized at 5k', but I adjust that to 2k' for LowN / LowG training, 1k' for ASW training, 100' for Strafe training.

'S true that I just don't ever get any losses from training, no matter the mission or altitude.

But the alt of 5k' (or less) & the range=0 keeps the group's planes / pilots from gathering fatigue.

IMO a more 'realistic' game-engine would need to bring a huge increase to ops-losses from Training (one a day at Tampa Bay wasn't just a truism), I will assign Training to minimize plane & pilot fatigue.

Can any poster document higher training-improvement at range>0, or alt>5k' ?

In my pbem, I'm testing the impact of several variables on training. The details are still classified (to my opponent), but the early returns are:
Raw trainees up to mid 40s exp so far.
1) leaders do not matter
2) extra high exp pilots don't matter
3) a high airframe to pilot ratio matters. I do not know how much, or what the optimal ratio is to get the most pilots in the shortest time yet (and I won't until I expand the test and get more then 2 data points on this issue).

I don't know if altitude / range matters (outside of fatigue and which skill is trained). I admit I hadn't considered altitude as a factor, but once I graduate this group, I was going to look to see if range made a difference.

[geofflambert]

1/3 of the squadron max in planes seems to work fine. Most training is in a classroom or on the football field. I'm pretty well certain 1/2 is more than enough.

[geofflambert]

Another thing about that, keeping carrier capable squadrons below the max gives you more flexibility when trying to fit units on a carrier.

[geofflambert]

I generally keep automatic replacements off and do that manually when I feel it's appropriate, one aircraft at a time.