How to conquer Leningrad in 1941?

[Kursk1943]

Maybe this has been asked many times before: how can I conquer Leningrad in 1941? I tried to clear the west bank of Wolchow with my armor in order to get hold of the three ports to effectively cut off Leningrad. Two ports went fine, but couldn't get across the Wolchow up to the port at the Swir. I tried to clear the east bank of the Wolchow and established a brigdehead east of Nowgorod but could not defeat Soviets in the swamps...I tried to come through the backdoor with 16th Army via Staraja Russa, but got also stuck in the swamps east of Nowgorod. I tried to take Leningrad by direct assault, got Kolpino, Pushkin and Schlisselburg, but got a bloody nose trying to attack across the Newa. For timeconsuming methodical attacks time is running out very fast.So what is your receipt to get Leningrad? [&:]

[SigUp]

Quickly overrun Pskov (preferably on turn 3-4), then push over the Luga as fast as possible. After getting over the Luga reach Shlisselburg and set up the attack to break into the backdoor of Leningrad east of Pavlovo (the hex right next to Lake Ladoga). Once you are over the Neva Leningrad is as good as gone.

[heliodorus04]

Are you playing a human or the AI?

Vs. a human, the most manageable way involves the following:
As soon as possible (T2 or T3) put Model in charge of I.Corps.
Put a good leader in charge of 18.Army by the time you reach the southern outskirts of Leningrad (first rivers west/northwest of Novgorod).
By about that same time, have each of the 1.Corps populated with 1 or 2 heavy artillery, and 3 other artillery units (maybe 2 and 1 pioneer).
Put a Stug, a Pioneer, and possibly one other SU into the high-morale divisions (81 plus) of 18.Army (the flamm panzer units from AGS are great in this role, and they're going to withdraw anyway).
Put 2 heavy artillery and 2 or 3 other SUs directly into 18.Army.

Keep all your corps HQs with 2 hexes of the combats, and keep 18.Army HQ within 4 or 5 hexes of the combats (ensuring you do not move them at all until after all combats for the turn are resolved). This ensures maximum probability of support at all levels (toward that end, park Army Group North HQ in Pskov for range and die roll help).

Pound the hell out of the Soviets as often as you have to, take 1 or 2 hex-rows a turn, and the Soviet simply cannot keep up with your steamroller. It will be a costly battle, slow, frustrating at times. But it's proven to work.

Never attack cities. Rotate units when necessary and use Refit on the units that are high-morale.

At the Neva, step one is to take Schlisselberg and the hex west of it. THEN put extra pioneers into the units that need to attack across the Neva, and take Hex 83.16, then expand your bridgehead to include Osinovets, and Leningrad is isolated. Wait for them to starve.

Obviously, this approach requires time, so you have to get to Novgorod no later than Turn 6 (not necessarily occupy it).
I also ALWAYS assign one panzer corps from 3.Panzer Group to help ensure I take the area around Peipus.
Against an inexperienced or inattentive Soviet, it is possible to use HQ buildup in the area of SW lake Peipus on around Turn 5, and from there, you can cut the rails in the east. If you can take Tikhvin and Okulovka, you seriously degrade supplies into Leningrad, and if you can use that as a jump to Lodynoe Pole, you can bag 1.5 million russians usually in that area alone. No human Soviet should allow that. They will/should always defend these cities well, and the approach south of Peipus.

Once you have the bash-and-grind approach to Leningrad down and can take it versus a human, you can take Sevastapol, Moscow, or a lot of other strongpoints. In 41/42, a well-packed German infantry corps (or 2 or 3) is unstoppable against a fixed position. There is a cost in men, though.

[Kursk1943]

Both of you thanks a lot for your advice.[:)] Obviously I had the wrong operational approach trying to get the three ports Kobona, Novaya Ladoga and Sviritsa. Will test your hints playing "Road to Leningrad" at first. Thank you heliodorus04 for your very detailed instructions. Up to now I only played against AI.

[Gabriel B.]

Against the Ai , always the right hook around lake Ilmen.

Against a humman oponent, keep in mind that they do not receive masive reinforcements until turn 4, and it will take another turn to get them to 50% of TOE.
the lVOV opening not only opens the road in the south ,but takes out the soviet high morale divisions that otherwise would be railed north ,
by turn 5 you are looking at the wall at pskov made up by 30-50 defensive cv stacks.

build one myself : [:D]

[swkuh]

Great question (sometimes the obvious needs to be asked!) Even better answers! Am trying some of this now.

[Kursk1943]

Gabriel B.: the right hook around Lake Ilmen - what ist your disposition of forces for it? Just 16th Army or also parts of Panzergruppe 4, or even elements of 9th Army / Panzergruppe 3? What axis of attack/advance? Lychovo-Okulovka-Nebolochi-Bugodoshch-Tichwin? Will this work?

[gingerbread]

@Peter: While someone will probably answer, it will be a spoiler, kind of. You will get a cookbook recipe that you can follow to get a result, but you will not develop an ability to identify like situations in other areas of the map.

Instead, use it as an exercise to develop that ability and competence, as a business case study. You know that the problem can be solved, question for you is how.

It will require you to accept that the reward will be delayed, but this time you know there is a small pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

g

[charlie0311]

Verrrry interesting!

No doubt you guys have accounted for the new air supply rules that go with reduced blizzard option.

Care to comment, (CTC). As if there weren't enough obscure abbreviations already!

[Gabriel B.]

ORIGINAL: Peter Zimmermann

Gabriel B.: the right hook around Lake Ilmen - what ist your disposition of forces for it? Just 16th Army or also parts of Panzergruppe 4, or even elements of 9th Army / Panzergruppe 3? What axis of attack/advance? Lychovo-Okulovka-Nebolochi-Bugodoshch-Tichwin? Will this work?

All of panzer gruppe 4 plus the 6 original high morale divisions, with the 16th army covering the eastern flank and the 18th pushing north.

You should not have a predermined axis of advance ,strike where the soviets are weak.
armor would get you Tichwin, but you need strong infantry after that .

[Balou]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

@Peter: While someone will probably answer, it will be a spoiler, kind of. You will get a cookbook recipe that you can follow to get a result, but you will not develop an ability to identify like situations in other areas of the map.

Instead, use it as an exercise to develop that ability and competence, as a business case study. You know that the problem can be solved, question for you is how.

It will require you to accept that the reward will be delayed, but this time you know there is a small pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

g

Haven't been around for some time but realizing there have been some changes with air supply: is a swift move to the finnish border (east of Sviritsa) still an option ?

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: Balou

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

@Peter: While someone will probably answer, it will be a spoiler, kind of. You will get a cookbook recipe that you can follow to get a result, but you will not develop an ability to identify like situations in other areas of the map.

Instead, use it as an exercise to develop that ability and competence, as a business case study. You know that the problem can be solved, question for you is how.

It will require you to accept that the reward will be delayed, but this time you know there is a small pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

g

Haven't been around for some time but realizing there have been some changes with air supply: is a swift move to the finnish border (east of Sviritsa) still an option ?

Only against the AI. No human will let you get near Tikhvin.

[Kursk1943]

Thank you for the advice Gabriel B.! Gingerbread, you are essentially right, perhaps I'm a bit too much motivated as a beginner...but isn't the motto of the war room:"Share your gameplay tips, secret tactics and fabulous strategies with fellow gamers here."??[;)]

[jallison86]

ORIGINAL: Peter Zimmermann

Thank you for the advice Gabriel B.! Gingerbread, you are essentially right, perhaps I'm a bit too much motivated as a beginner...but isn't the motto of the war room:"Share your gameplay tips, secret tactics and fabulous strategies with fellow gamers here."??[;)]

I came here looking for an answer to more or less the same question. I have run through Don's excellent Operational Boot Camp, which takes you through turn 1 of Road to Leningrad. Following a cookbook like this is perfect for gaining an understanding of game mechanics. But once you reach the end you are saying, "OK, now what?" I've blasted huge holes in the Soviet line and have a good number of units encircled. Do I now attack those units? Ignore them and hope they starve? Push my armor and mechanized units as far as they can go? Or keep them close to infantry support? How bad is being out of command radius? Or low on supply? I figure I'll re-run turn 2 a bunch of times and learn about all this. Some day maybe I'll be ready to play a human!

- Jeff