Best Practices in using CVE for invasion support and general invasion questions

[Panjack]

Using a CVE for the first time to support a (small) invasion. CVE has a group of fighters. No other CVs are involved. It is Oct 1942 for me so most of my CVs are upgrading and I don't have anything but APs and AKs. This is only my second contested invasion and so I don't know what I'm doing.

Is this what should be done?
(1) I've sent off a small DMS TF and a small ASW TF to arrive the day before the invasion.

(2) On the way to the invasion site:
I have a small surface TF as lead TF going to the invasion site. I have amphib TF following the lead surface TF. Is it best to have the following distance of zero or of 1? Or does it not matter? Is it best to have the CVE as part of the amphib TF OR to have it in its own air combat (or amphib?) TF?

(3) Day before the invasion:
Stop 1 hex away from invasion site. If the CVE is part of the amphib TF, have it split off into its own air combat TF (along with a couple of escorts). Have this air combat TF sit one hex away from invasion site throughout the invasion. (Alternatively, have the already existing air combat TF be set to stand off one hex).

(4) The day of invasion:
Send amphib TF to do its thing (moving one hex). Question: should the fighters on the CVE be set to CAP OR set to LRCAP with the target of the amphib TF? Question: is it best to have AKs start unloading the first day or is it best to have them unload the second day? If you have brought along Port Svc units (I haven't for this small invasion) should you have them land the first day or the second day?

(5) Day after invasion:
It is best to keep all AKs and APs (after they unload) at the invasion site or to move them into the same hex as the CVE (perhaps after turning the air combat TF into an amphib so the APs and AKs join up with with the CVE TF? Or does potentially splitting up transports make CAP less effective or does it actually keep them saver?

Thanks for any input.

[dr.hal]

Due to the fact that CVEs have the ability to operate at 100% in a port hex, you can keep them with the invasion fleet and thus have zero as your range, giving the pilots the least amount of fatigue while providing the most amount of coverage....

[catwhoorg]

Now THAT is good to know.

[dr.hal]

Page 167 section 7.2.1.13.2 notes that CVs suffer a penalty, but this only applies to CVs and CVLs, not CVEs. I believe it was a patch!

[Panjack]

Thanks for the info!

But, IF a CV was involved and was standing off by a hex...is it best to set fighters to LRCAP (with amphib TF as target and some CAP for the CV TF) or simply to set fighters to CAP?

[CowboyRonin]

You would need to set them to LRCAP to fly to another hex in strength (i.e. more than just leakers).

[dr.hal]

I've not "gamed" it so I'm not sure. Maybe others can step in here. One thing I do know is that normally the Amphib assault is very high priority (or why are you doing it?) and thus I would protect the assault troops more than worry about the support CVs. If an attack is made against the CV and you station your LRCAP over the landing putting a range in to cover the distance between the CV and the landing (range of one hex normally) then you cover both. But remember that only 30% of the fighters you ask for cap are up at any one time. If they are trying to cover two much area it will be too thin to make much difference in BOTH areas. So it is a decision that you as the electronic admiral must make, much like the real folks had to do. One thing is a given however, you almost NEVER have enough fighters! Compromise is the name of the game. Hal

[JeffroK]

Your CVE will be a bomb/torpedo magnet.
Do not use it alone under any air threat.

Otherwise keep it in the Amphib TF.

This all changes when you have a bunch of CVE available.

[Sardaukar]

My Allied (1943 and later) invasion fleet consist of:

Main CT TF covering the invasion, fleet CVs
CVE TF doing same
Bombardment TF
Surface Combat TF
Amphibious TF (remember, if base is worth hitting with division, it's worth hitting with 2 or more, add tank battalion or 2)
Supply/base force TF (engineers and base forces with supply)
Floating reserve TF (usually something like RCT and some (regimental combat team, just in case things get tough)
Secondary supply TF (pure supply)

[Knyvet]

[X(] Careful - sending a Minesweeping TF of DMSs into an enemy base hex that has a coastal battery = instant death.  More often than not, you will want the DMSs to be part of the amphib task force so they will clear a lane/path for the invasion without becoming target practice for coastal guns.  There is even a neat note in combat reports stating that they cleared a path for you when they are part of the amphib TF.
 
 
6.6.2 MINE SWEEPING
Valid ships, in a Mine Sweeping or Local Mine Sweeping TF, sweep minefields.
6.6.2.1. CREATION
Valid minesweeping capable ships, in a Mine Sweeping or Local Mine Sweeping TF, sweep a minefield by having minesweeping orders, for a given a DH (destination hex) location for the minefield to be swept. If a Mine Warfare TF is clearing mines in a hex that contains coastal guns, the TF may be fired on.

[guytipton41]

ORIGINAL: Knyvet

[X(] Careful - sending a Minesweeping TF of DMSs into an enemy base hex that has a coastal battery = instant death.  More often than not, you will want the DMSs to be part of the amphib task force so they will clear a lane/path for the invasion without becoming target practice for coastal guns.  There is even a neat note in combat reports stating that they cleared a path for you when they are part of the amphib TF.


6.6.2 MINE SWEEPING
Valid ships, in a Mine Sweeping or Local Mine Sweeping TF, sweep minefields.
6.6.2.1. CREATION
Valid minesweeping capable ships, in a Mine Sweeping or Local Mine Sweeping TF, sweep a minefield by having minesweeping orders, for a given a DH (destination hex) location for the minefield to be swept. If a Mine Warfare TF is clearing mines in a hex that contains coastal guns, the TF may be fired on.

Very Interesting,

Do DMS in the Amphip TF sweep for mines? What about in a SCTF or a Bombardment TF?

Cheers,
Guy

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: guytipton41

ORIGINAL: Knyvet

[X(] Careful - sending a Minesweeping TF of DMSs into an enemy base hex that has a coastal battery = instant death.  More often than not, you will want the DMSs to be part of the amphib task force so they will clear a lane/path for the invasion without becoming target practice for coastal guns.  There is even a neat note in combat reports stating that they cleared a path for you when they are part of the amphib TF.


6.6.2 MINE SWEEPING
Valid ships, in a Mine Sweeping or Local Mine Sweeping TF, sweep minefields.
6.6.2.1. CREATION
Valid minesweeping capable ships, in a Mine Sweeping or Local Mine Sweeping TF, sweep a minefield by having minesweeping orders, for a given a DH (destination hex) location for the minefield to be swept. If a Mine Warfare TF is clearing mines in a hex that contains coastal guns, the TF may be fired on.

Very Interesting,

Do DMS in the Amphip TF sweep for mines? What about in a SCTF or a Bombardment TF?

Cheers,
Guy

They do. That's why I always use DMS ships in Amphibious TF. They might not be as effective as in dedicate Minesweeping TF, but still good to have. DMS are valuable, so use cheaper minesweepers in Minesweeping TF if there are CD guns and keep DMS in Amph TF (they also shoot back to CD guns then..they are basically destroyers..and can do ASW too).

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I've not "gamed" it so I'm not sure. Maybe others can step in here. One thing I do know is that normally the Amphib assault is very high priority (or why are you doing it?) and thus I would protect the assault troops more than worry about the support CVs. If an attack is made against the CV and you station your LRCAP over the landing putting a range in to cover the distance between the CV and the landing (range of one hex normally) then you cover both. But remember that only 30% of the fighters you ask for cap are up at any one time. If they are trying to cover two much area it will be too thin to make much difference in BOTH areas. So it is a decision that you as the electronic admiral must make, much like the real folks had to do. One thing is a given however, you almost NEVER have enough fighters! Compromise is the name of the game. Hal

Two issues to cover here. I find it best to sit the carriers one hex away from the invasion base and set the fighters to normal CAP. In combination with the CVEs in the invasion hex they will provide enough cover. The purpose of CAP for carriers is to protect the carriers first. If you put them on LRCAP then that may not happen. It is hard to lose valuable transport but I would rather that than lose my carriers.

Second. Yes, 30% CAP will be weak in 1942. You should have it set to 50 to 60% when the invasion goes in. However, in 1944 and 45 30% CAP is much stronger as the quality of Allied radar pretty much insures that plenty more stand by CAP will launch. Your planes will get less fatigued and maintain morale with the lower CAP number. I still boost it to the 40-50 range when covering an invasion or expecting major air attackea

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Your CVE will be a bomb/torpedo magnet.
Do not use it alone under any air threat.

Otherwise keep it in the Amphib TF.

This all changes when you have a bunch of CVE available.

+1

Try to use CVEs in TFs of five to six CVEs at least. You gotta have enough CAP up to stop the attack cold. If the bombers get through, you are dead meat. They are slower so easier to hit and don't take much to sink. One CVE alone is useless unless it is on ASW duty someplace where it can't be hit by air.

[Sardaukar]

Indeed, always use CVEs in bigger groups together when facing enemy air threat.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I've not "gamed" it so I'm not sure. Maybe others can step in here. One thing I do know is that normally the Amphib assault is very high priority (or why are you doing it?) and thus I would protect the assault troops more than worry about the support CVs. If an attack is made against the CV and you station your LRCAP over the landing putting a range in to cover the distance between the CV and the landing (range of one hex normally) then you cover both. But remember that only 30% of the fighters you ask for cap are up at any one time. If they are trying to cover two much area it will be too thin to make much difference in BOTH areas. So it is a decision that you as the electronic admiral must make, much like the real folks had to do. One thing is a given however, you almost NEVER have enough fighters! Compromise is the name of the game. Hal

Two issues to cover here. I find it best to sit the carriers one hex away from the invasion base and set the fighters to normal CAP. In combination with the CVEs in the invasion hex they will provide enough cover. The purpose of CAP for carriers is to protect the carriers first. If you put them on LRCAP then that may not happen. It is hard to lose valuable transport but I would rather that than lose my carriers.

Second. Yes, 30% CAP will be weak in 1942. You should have it set to 50 to 60% when the invasion goes in. However, in 1944 and 45 30% CAP is much stronger as the quality of Allied radar pretty much insures that plenty more stand by CAP will launch. Your planes will get less fatigued and maintain morale with the lower CAP number. I still boost it to the 40-50 range when covering an invasion or expecting major air attackea

Agree with crsutton. I think spillover CAP from one hex away works pretty well to cover the amphibious group and results in less fatigue. I've even done it successfully from 2 hexes away without LRCAP orders from the carriers. I put the best planes and pilots (F6F's) on 70-90% CAP and sent the weaker F4F squadrons to escort with 50-60% CAP.

Note that a CVE in the amphibious taffy will actually fire her 5 in guns in support of the landing. This will quickly deplete her AAA fire when she runs out of 5 in ammo and subject the CVE to shore battery fire. I cant remember if there is a way to set no escort fire in amphibious groups as their is in bombardment groups (I dont think so). Seems to me therefore it is a bad idea to put a CVE in the amphbious task force if there is the chance of enemy shore gun fire.

The best use for CVE's in a battle area is as a larger group with 5+ CVE's as has already been stated. Pack them with fighters and a few bombers for ASW duty. You might get a CAP of 60-80 planes that way (though not for long due to fatigue)

[Miller]

Even the best Allied commander should be prepared to lose a load of CVEs. For some reason the targeting AI seems to concentrate on them even if there are CVs in the same hex.....