Support unit availability

[coolts]

Can someone remind me at which HQ level SU's are available to axis Corps?

I have switched off the automatic SU system and want to use OKH as a clearing house for all SU's.

Can any German corps HQ access SU's at OKH level? It seems inconsistent.

7.5.2.2. SU to CU Attachment Restrictions
There is no range limitation to the transfer of support unit attachments; however, combat units must be in supply in order to transfer support units. Changing support unit attachments may require the expenditure of admin points (12.2.3).

This would seem to state that there are no limits apart form AP.

7.6.3. Attachment of Support Units to Headquarter Units
Support unit attachments can be transferred between headquarters units manually during the action phase and automatically during the logistics phase. Support units attached to combat units and town, city or urban hexes can be manually transferred back to headquarters units during the action phase. There is no range limitation to the transfer of support unit attachments; however, headquarters units must be in supply in order to transfer support units.

And that the HQ is in supply of course.

However, I remember way back that some people advocated OKH "touring the front" to distribute SU manually. This would suggest range limits, or at least higher AP cost based on range.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

If I understand your question correctly your asking if Axis Corps HQ can access SU's that are assigned to OKH? If thats your question then yes. I use OKH as a holding ground for a lot of the heavier artillery so it doesn't get damaged moving around. The main limitation is range. Sometimes you'll have to move OKH close to the HQ's your wanting to transfer to or it won't show up as a possible candidate.

[swkuh]

Ahhh... range limitation. That's just the point, rule book says "no range limitation" at two places, but agree that there is such.

Personal preference is to give every corps HQ 3 arty and some AA, and I try to get maneuver units to divisions. Never know where the point of action will be.

[Tuhhodge]

I am in a similar position, being about to start my first AXIS campaign after carefully looking through my available forces.

I read a lot of people having preferences as to the number and types of SUs attached to Corps or even individual Divisions. I would also like to manually assign SUs and thought I could start out by re-assigning all SUs to OKH. But wouldn't that be impossible because of the AP costs of assigning SUs?

Or have I misunderstood the system?

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Tuhhodge

I am in a similar position, being about to start my first AXIS campaign after carefully looking through my available forces.

I read a lot of people having preferences as to the number and types of SUs attached to Corps or even individual Divisions. I would also like to manually assign SUs and thought I could start out by re-assigning all SUs to OKH. But wouldn't that be impossible because of the AP costs of assigning SUs?

Or have I misunderstood the system?

If HQ's are unlocked than you can set support level to 0 on everything except OKH and it will send all SU's to OKH. Reassigning them is a bit clumsy but it works in basically the same way.

[Tuhhodge]

How long does this process take? I wouldn't want to start Barbarossa without SUs where you need them?

Do these SUs physically move across the map?

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Tuhhodge

How long does this process take? I wouldn't want to start Barbarossa without SUs where you need them?

Do these SUs physically move across the map?

No they are not represented visually. It takes 1 turn to move them to OKH and then 1 turn to move them back. Mass movements of SU's are generally saved for mud seasons or maybe right before blizzard to spare some of the TOE damage.

[Tuhhodge]

Thanks Disgruntled Veteran. I know they're not represented by counters; as you guessed, I was thinking about distances between current HQ and the OKH or new HQ. I suppose, with 1 week turns, it is a reasonably realistic rule to require a fortnight for them to pack up, move up to a few hundred miles, and then integrate with another unit.

[Balou]

Remember: the whole automatic transfer procedure - while you fiddle around with support level changes - doesn't work for pioneers. You have to move them manually.

[coolts]

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

The main limitation is range. Sometimes you'll have to move OKH close to the HQ's your wanting to transfer to or it won't show up as a possible candidate.

This is what I was worried about. Having OKH as a mobile shop distributing SU's is a royal pain in the arse. Still, no point complaining, better get clicking......

ORIGINAL: rrbill

Ahhh... range limitation. That's just the point, rule book says "no range limitation" at two places, but agree that there is such.

When the manual says so and experience says "no", confusion and frustration abound. Lets hope for a more elegant system in WitW eh? At least let me build my own damn SU's if the other side can?

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: coolts
Still, no point complaining, better get clicking......

Exactly, the pain in the wrist is soon just a memory.

[Numdydar]

Which is why I just set it on auto and let the system figure it out lol.

[coolts]

13 SU's in some Corps and 0 in others, and everything in between.

No, the auto method is useless.

[Balou]

You empty these overloaded Corps either at the cost of 1AP per SU (manually) or for free if done "automated" according to pompack or others.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Balou

You empty these overloaded Corps either at the cost of 1AP per SU (manually) or for free if done "automated" according to pompack or others.

The automated system is pretty useful for a lot of SU transfers. The only thing I don't like about it that it doesn't discriminate between artillery size (I think). I like to keep all the huge expensive guns in OKH and distribute them only when there is going to be an assault on a heavily fortified hex. Otherwise, I find the automated system quite helpful and can save dozens of AP points. Still, I'm kind of a stickler for details and I prefer the manual just for the absolute control this dictator demands

[coolts]

This is going back to the old arguments which i feel originated with an obscurity in the manual;

7.6.3.2.........The level setting indicates the number of each type of support unit that the computer will attempt to provide to that particular headquarters unit, based on availability. For example, if the player sets "Support Level" to 3 the computer would attempt to provide 3 support units of each type, to include Armored, Anti-Tank, Artillery, Anti-aircraft, Rocket, etc.

That ending ",etc." Is the culprit.

If there were 3 categories of SU and we set the SU auto level to '3' then we should have 9 SU's in that Corps assuming they were available. the fact that we DON'T know how many categories of SU there are and that construction & pioneer SU's are somehow magically exempt makes the whole thing a farce.

Some of my corps have 10-13 SU's and some have none.. All set to default "3" for many turns.

I decided to close Pandoras box and use the manual method

[Balou]

ORIGINAL: coolts

This is going back to the old arguments which i feel originated with an obscurity in the manual;

7.6.3.2.........The level setting indicates the number of each type of support unit that the computer will attempt to provide to that particular headquarters unit, based on availability. For example, if the player sets "Support Level" to 3 the computer would attempt to provide 3 support units of each type, to include Armored, Anti-Tank, Artillery, Anti-aircraft, Rocket, etc.

That ending ",etc." Is the culprit.

If there were 3 categories of SU and we set the SU auto level to '3' then we should have 9 SU's in that Corps assuming they were available. the fact that we DON'T know how many categories of SU there are and that construction & pioneer SU's are somehow magically exempt makes the whole thing a farce.

Some of my corps have 10-13 SU's and some have none.. All set to default "3" for many turns.

I decided to close Pandoras box and use the manual method

The different types of German SU:

The ones you have to handle manually
1. Construction units
2. Pioneers

The ones you can transfer for free (numbers at the start of Barbarossa)
1. Artillery (whatever gun, whatever calibre, whatever name), 124
2. AA (every AA SU, whatever type, with the exception of Flak Regiments from German cities), overall 128
3. SP guns (Stugs, JPz, sIG), 25
4. AT (37 mm), 5
5. Nebelwerfer (=German Rocket SU), 28
6. MG, 3
7. Bicycle, 1

Your SUs don’t seem to move? Then I would check the receiving end, which is your higher HQs. If they are locked they won’t take back the stuff you don’t need in frontline Corps. For the automated system to work, the setting at the beginning of your campaign should be 1/2/3 for Corps (whatever you deem appropriate), 0 for Amies, but 9 for Army groups, and 9 for OKH. After 3 or 4 turns all the unneeded stuff from your corps will be found there. And from OKH, redistribution as wanted/needed IS FOR FREE.

Attached my personal memo (modified from pompack). The amount of APs saved for more important things (leader reassignements etc) is amazing, just look at the numbers of SUs.

[Balou]

memo

[coolts]

Thank you for that explanation. It should be added to the manual IMO.

[bairdlander2]

Yes,but what is the range for moving?The manual says no range,but there is,does anyone know what it is?