I DON'T want my money back !

[nukkxx5058]

The game is totally unplayable as there is no tutorial to help getting to start with EIA. As a result, I will not play this game and will remove it from my hard drive.

However, I don't want my money back. I like matrixgames. Good firm usually with good products! So I am glad to participate to its funding and I am happy with my 50 euros donation (not tax deductible).

[gwheelock]

The best tutorial is to play vs the AI. Set up your troops; move a few corp around.
DOW & try to capture a minor or two.  Usually; the AI will ignore you.  If you get
into a bad situation; just start a new game.

[Murat]

Don't do this quite yet. Wait for a few days and see if someone can piece together a tutorial of some sort.

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: gwheelock

The best tutorial is to play vs the AI. Set up your troops; move a few corp around.
DOW & try to capture a minor or two.  Usually; the AI will ignore you.  If you get
into a bad situation; just start a new game.

ROFL!!!!!!! Everybody says that, that's what's different about this game versus any other: HOW? How the hell DO you actually PLAY the game? LOL...the UI won't let me[:'(]. Nobody, and i mean NOBODY[8|], is claiming that it's too hard...its like a cobbler trying to do a heart valve transplant...what do i click?
If we could actually "play" the game the rest would be simple...apparently[8|].

[zenmaster]

Or you could simply ask more questions in the forum.
 
The game is really not that hard to play nor all that complicated.
The interface lets you do everything you need.
 
Sure, the AI needs work to improve but that will come in a couple patches.
Sure, there needs to be more security in play-by-mail, but that is coming too.
 
However, it's far from unplayable.
 
 

[Grapeshot Bob]

ORIGINAL: zenmaster

Or you could simply ask more questions in the forum.

The game is really not that hard to play nor all that complicated.
The interface lets you do everything you need.

The forums are great. I learned a lot there from patient members of the community.

But look through the forums. They are filled with redundant repeated requests by newbies asking to be shown how to use the game. The questions get answered but then get asked several days later and reanswered. The forums aren't exactly structured for data retrieval. Even the developers are trying to centralize feedback into a single thread because it is hard to mine the rest of the threads for bug reports.

Heck, I've sent in useless bug reports because I didn't know how to use the game, so I thought problems I was having were bugs instead of me being uninformed.

People begging for a guide should provide a very compelling motivation for someone to provide one. This is a commercial enterprise and should be judged like any other commercial enterprise. If people ask for a manual then give them one.

The interface for anything ever written for a computer has everything you need to use the program. That doesn't make it easy or enjoyable. Newbies need a quick reference to get going.

What people are asking for isn't time or skill intensive. One experienced player could write up a useful, brief quick start guide in a single weekend. Explain the UI, the basics of setup and what each phase does. This should be coupled with walk throughs at each step.

I have come to enjoy this game immensely and I'd hate to see it die for lack of simple instructions. Not after all the hard work that has gone into developing the game.



GSB

[TheHellPatrol]

[&o]@Grapeshot:
Amen Brother!

[Alex777]

I agree with GSB, but would put the case rather more forcefully.  It is inexcusable that Matrix allowed the Manual to go out in its present form.  I expect the reviewers to be making this point soon.  The Manual consists mostly of chunks of text lifted from the board game rules, with some superficial changes.  No one seems to have asked the question: "Could a novice learn to play against the AI by reading this document?"  A number of posters here have replied, essentially, that if you spend enough time experimenting with the program and asking questions on this forum, you will eventually piece it together.  And that's true.  But it sets a new low for "quality control on a computer program destined for commercial release."

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: Alex777

.  No one seems to have asked the question: "Could a novice learn to play against the AI by reading this document?"   But it sets a new low for "quality control on a computer program destined for commercial release."

Actually, the real question should read: "Could a novice learn to play against the "UI" by reading this document?" NOOOOO[:-] We've all heard about the "AI", it's not about the AI or lack of it...

[fvianello]

a simple question to all complainers: have you read the manual? Where "read" does not mean opening it at a random page, read two sentences, then close it.

Once upon a time, there were games that you cannot play before reading the manual...

that said, I agree that a tutorial is needed.

[Alex777]

<<&nbsp; have you read the manual? >>
&nbsp;
I have done what I do with all serious wargames.&nbsp; I skimmed the Manual, then read it cover to cover, highlighting the important bits and making notes on the side, then printed out my notes.&nbsp; At that point I had a pretty good understanding of the EiA system, and might even have been able to play the board game.&nbsp; BUT - I still didn't have enough information to address the User Interface!&nbsp; I had no idea where to click to make things happen.&nbsp;
&nbsp;
At that point, I spent several hours "playing against the interface".&nbsp; I left-clicked and right-clicked and double-clicked all over the place, discovering little Easter-egg style secrets which should have been in the Manual.&nbsp; I made notes of all this, creating a sort of mini-manual for myself.&nbsp; Eventually, I think, I learned how the program works.

[fvianello]

ORIGINAL: Alex777

<<  have you read the manual? >>

I have done what I do with all serious wargames.  I skimmed the Manual, then read it cover to cover, highlighting the important bits and making notes on the side, then printed out my notes.  At that point I had a pretty good understanding of the EiA system, and might even have been able to play the board game.  BUT - I still didn't have enough information to address the User Interface!  I had no idea where to click to make things happen. 

At that point, I spent several hours "playing against the interface".  I left-clicked and right-clicked and double-clicked all over the place, discovering little Easter-egg style secrets which should have been in the Manual.  I made notes of all this, creating a sort of mini-manual for myself.  Eventually, I think, I learned how the program works.

I don't think I'm a genius (ok, actually I think I am but it doesn't matter now) and it took me a whooping 20 minutes to understand the interface. When all you can do is click, double click and right click on things it doesn't take long to try everything.

[isandlwana]

Look we understand all it takes is 20 minutes of useless clicking--the point that everyone is complaining about is.....that a simple tutorial by matrix showing what all the click icons do would make things vastly easier!--Reference the tutorial now in the TIPS thread--why should we as gamers have to do this---Matrix could have attached a simple tutorial folder into the manual---even just a few color coded JPEGS would have done much to make it easier.&nbsp; No one really expects AI to be better--it is the manual to make the GUI easier to understand that needs improvement.

[fvianello]

ahhhh maybe I understand now. You didn't even open the manual, right ? The one in .pdf format in the documentation directory, not the windows format one opened by pressing "?"

THAT manual has images in it, but of course you have to go under "start-empires in arms-documentation-manual".
I know it's hard, maybe we should ask for a tutorial for that.

[baboune]

If you dont want your money you can send it to me

[nukkxx5058]

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

ahhhh maybe I understand now. You didn't even open the manual, right ? The one in .pdf format in the documentation directory, not the windows format one opened by pressing "?"

THAT manual has images in it, but of course you have to go under "start-empires in arms-documentation-manual".
I know it's hard, maybe we should ask for a tutorial for that.

tss tss tss ... the manual is particularly poorly written and an average player has no idea what to do after installing the game. Even the setup phase is hard to complete without guidance. We see the multiple buttons but hard to say which should be activated and why and which one should not ... in one word: a tutorial is needed.

[Soapy Frog]

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

ahhhh maybe I understand now. You didn't even open the manual, right ? The one in .pdf format in the documentation directory, not the windows format one opened by pressing "?"

THAT manual has images in it, but of course you have to go under "start-empires in arms-documentation-manual".
I know it's hard, maybe we should ask for a tutorial for that.

Wow... fanboi... you could be doing a worse disservice to the game and community by excusing the lack of tutorial.

Every game seems to have these types of folks, we can only pray the developer ignores you, and listens to the people who have perfectly valid complaints and requests.

[fvianello]

BAH!
I'm just tired of people complaining about a manual they never opened once. Do you really think they'll stop complaining when a tutorial will be ready ?

[SamuraiProgrmmr]

Before I start, I am not complaining.... just pointing out where I need help.&nbsp; Maybe others are in the same spot.
&nbsp;
I read the manual.
&nbsp;
I tried to play the game.
&nbsp;
I know little or nothing about Napoleonics but have played wargames since 1980.
&nbsp;
I think the problem is not just 'how do you do it', but also 'what do I want to do'.&nbsp; I find myself wondering 'should I do something and make the computer react to me' or 'should I wait and react to the computer'.&nbsp; I have no idea whether I should declare war now or wait 3 years while building.&nbsp; There is so much information to put together that I find myself overwhelmed.&nbsp; (The complexity is a good thing, but players new to this game have to find a way over the initial learning hump.
&nbsp;
In the months prior to release, I scanned the internet for FAQs on the board game and found little or nothing that would help a raw beginner gain traction.&nbsp; At least with WWII games, you know that Germany needs to be able to attack Poland in September 1939.&nbsp; At least that is a benchmark that can be used until the player gains enough knowledge to be creative.&nbsp;
&nbsp;
However, with a political game such as EIA, the history may or may not be realistic benchmarks.
&nbsp;
Real Life (TM) has prevented me from reading all of the posts on this board since release but I have copies of them for when I can.&nbsp; What I would like to see is an experienced player keep notes during a game with comments on why they chose to do something.&nbsp;
&nbsp;
And by the way, in case you missed it --- I READ THE MANUAL.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;

[fvianello]

I have no idea whether I should declare war now or wait 3 years while building. There is so much information to put together that I find myself overwhelmed. (The complexity is a good thing, but players new to this game have to find a way over the initial learning hump.

That's a different kind of question: you're asking about strategy, not game rules, and as you can imagine the answer is complex. Should you wait ? it depends who you are playing; nations here are VERY different. France should strike fast and hard; Russia could maybe wait.

About strategy, you can find a lot of hints and tricks around; the first, biggest help is probably taking a look at how things went historically. I can assure you that the game makes a good work in trying to replicate the mechanics of napoleonic wars.

Anyway, keep in mind that I know people playing EiA by 20 years and still wondering how to choose the best battle chit. That's why I like this game.