Was Tanaka that good?
Moderators: Joel Billings, Tankerace, siRkid
Was Tanaka that good?
I've been playing Scen 16 as the Japs for some time against the AI, game setting hard.
The AI routinely sends bombardment TFs against Lunga.
Keeping a SC TF on station at Lunga with the BBs, strong CAs and a good quantity of destoyers with Tanaka commanding is a very effective counter.
Several times Tanaka has surprised the incoming bombardment TF despite this TF tracking him with radar.
The results are pretty spectacular - low survival rate for the Allied CAs.
Was Tanaka that good?
P.S. it's good to see the AI ties to deal with the protecting SC at Lunga with CVs. <----- Whoa! Praise for the AI!
The AI routinely sends bombardment TFs against Lunga.
Keeping a SC TF on station at Lunga with the BBs, strong CAs and a good quantity of destoyers with Tanaka commanding is a very effective counter.
Several times Tanaka has surprised the incoming bombardment TF despite this TF tracking him with radar.
The results are pretty spectacular - low survival rate for the Allied CAs.
Was Tanaka that good?
P.S. it's good to see the AI ties to deal with the protecting SC at Lunga with CVs. <----- Whoa! Praise for the AI!
Re: Was Tanaka that good?
Originally posted by rich91a
I've been playing Scen 16 as the Japs for some time against the AI, game setting hard.
The AI routinely sends bombardment TFs against Lunga.
Keeping a SC TF on station at Lunga with the BBs, strong CAs and a good quantity of destoyers with Tanaka commanding is a very effective counter.
Several times Tanaka has surprised the incoming bombardment TF despite this TF tracking him with radar.
The results are pretty spectacular - low survival rate for the Allied CAs.
Was Tanaka that good?
P.S. it's good to see the AI ties to deal with the protecting SC at Lunga with CVs. <----- Whoa! Praise for the AI!
Whatever 'that good' means. he was VERY VERY good.
He was caught by surprise with his ships loaded with
the wrong ammo, decks littered with supplies for Guadalcanal,
outnumbered and outgunned, and he turned it around
losing only one ship, sinking the Northampton
“It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.”
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
Maybe he was good, maybe he was just lucky.
I've heard him described as a genius.
Here's a link to a description of Tassafronga.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/btl_tas.htm
Given the quality of the IJN Longlance torpedo his strategy seems pretty obvious, although other commanders didn't seem to have the same 'luck' with them.
Certainly, being able to time a Longlance attack to perfection could qualify as genius I guess.
I've heard him described as a genius.
Here's a link to a description of Tassafronga.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/btl_tas.htm
Given the quality of the IJN Longlance torpedo his strategy seems pretty obvious, although other commanders didn't seem to have the same 'luck' with them.
Certainly, being able to time a Longlance attack to perfection could qualify as genius I guess.
Never give up, never surrender
Certianly isn't perfect. Tanaka with the Yamato and a few DDs got the "T" crossed by Lee in several CAs and a DDs in my game and was devastated. Only the Yamato survived. Lee took a few hits but only one of his ships went down (unless some sank later which were not reported).
So he is not totally invincible in the game.
So he is not totally invincible in the game.
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"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "
"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."
"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "
He was very outspoken and not popular within the ranks of the Navy. However, he appeared to have a very firm grasp of the strategic situation, more so than the higher command and he was an excellent tactical officer. However, as a rule all Japanese surface commanders were highly trained and experienced-if a bit unflexible.
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Sigismund of Luxemburg
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- CapAndGown
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Tanaka had two things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga:
-skill
-tenacity
-and the possession of excellent torpedos.
Wait, Tanaka had three things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga:
-skill
-tenacity
-the possession of excellent torpedos
-and a well rehearsed plan.
Wait, Tanaka had four things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga
Oh, never mind.
-skill
-tenacity
-and the possession of excellent torpedos.
Wait, Tanaka had three things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga:
-skill
-tenacity
-the possession of excellent torpedos
-and a well rehearsed plan.
Wait, Tanaka had four things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga
Oh, never mind.
Originally posted by cap_and_gown
Tanaka had two things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga:
-skill
-tenacity
-and the possession of excellent torpedos.
Wait, Tanaka had three things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga:
-skill
-tenacity
-the possession of excellent torpedos
-and a well rehearsed plan.
Wait, Tanaka had four things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga
Oh, never mind.
LOL, it is amazing that wargames and Python go so well together.
Von Frag
Originally posted by Sonny
Certianly isn't perfect. Tanaka with the Yamato and a few DDs got the "T" crossed by Lee in several CAs and a DDs in my game and was devastated. Only the Yamato survived. Lee took a few hits but only one of his ships went down (unless some sank later which were not reported).
So he is not totally invincible in the game.
Was that Tanaka that demolished Scott's CA TF in our SC#19?
"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC
Tanaka was arguably the best surface commander of in the IJN if not of all the combatants. As for his tactics at Tassafaronga being obvious, well, a careful reading of military history will reveal the difference between great and poor commanders is the former's ability to discover and effectively apply the "obvious" solutions to tactcal or strategic problems. If Hooker had been able to recognize and apply the obvious tactic in the Wilderness in 1863, Chancellorsville, and not Gettysburg, would have been remembered as Lee's greatest defeat
It would have been interesting to see how great Tanaka would have become had he remained in this theater. Unfortunately for Japan, his mouth earned him a desk job in Burma and Singapore. His evacuation of over 10000 troops from Guadalcanal without the US knowledge is truly amazing.
Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"
Originally posted by Drex
It would have been interesting to see how great Tanaka would have become had he remained in this theater. Unfortunately for Japan, his mouth earned him a desk job in Burma and Singapore. His evacuation of over 10000 troops from Guadalcanal without the US knowledge is truly amazing.
A man like Tanaka would have died at the helm of his ship.
Just like Rommel would have if he had been sent to Russia.
“It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.”
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
This worshipping of Tanaka reminds me of Grant's comment at the Second Wilderness when he saw how nervous his subordinates were about facing Lee.
"Anyone would think he was gonna do a double somersault and land in our rear...get some guns up here" or words to that effect.
Sure he had a great result at Tassafronga but to ascribe genius to the results of such a roll of the dice as a torpedo attack seems a bit over the top.
Also, at that time the US was just becoming aware of the Longlance danger and would later develop tactics to counter it.
Wright steered his cruisers in the traditional line ahead manner, without manouvering and got hammered.
"Anyone would think he was gonna do a double somersault and land in our rear...get some guns up here" or words to that effect.
Sure he had a great result at Tassafronga but to ascribe genius to the results of such a roll of the dice as a torpedo attack seems a bit over the top.
Also, at that time the US was just becoming aware of the Longlance danger and would later develop tactics to counter it.
Wright steered his cruisers in the traditional line ahead manner, without manouvering and got hammered.
Never give up, never surrender
Originally posted by Mike_B20
This worshipping of Tanaka reminds me of Grant's comment at the Second Wilderness when he saw how nervous his subordinates were about facing Lee.
"Anyone would think he was gonna do a double somersault and land in our rear...get some guns up here" or words to that effect.
Sure he had a great result at Tassafronga but to ascribe genius to the results of such a roll of the dice as a torpedo attack seems a bit over the top.
Also, at that time the US was just becoming aware of the Longlance danger and would later develop tactics to counter it.
Wright steered his cruisers in the traditional line ahead manner, without manouvering and got hammered.
But he had radar and he had total surprise. That goes a LONG way to counter poor deployment.
“It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.”
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
Tassafaaronga was just one of his exploits. In my post above, I mention his successful evacuation of the Guadalcanal force with only the loss of one DD and that was by a mine. I believe that was his greatest feat. Surely Tanaka's fame was well earned whereas some others have been worshipped for far less.Originally posted by Mike_B20
This worshipping of Tanaka reminds me of Grant's comment at the Second Wilderness when he saw how nervous his subordinates were about facing Lee.
"Anyone would think he was gonna do a double somersault and land in our rear...get some guns up here" or words to that effect.
Sure he had a great result at Tassafronga but to ascribe genius to the results of such a roll of the dice as a torpedo attack seems a bit over the top.
Also, at that time the US was just becoming aware of the Longlance danger and would later develop tactics to counter it.
Wright steered his cruisers in the traditional line ahead manner, without manouvering and got hammered.
Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"
Originally posted by Drex
Tassafaaronga was just one of his exploits. In my post above, I mention his successful evacuation of the Guadalcanal force with only the loss of one DD and that was by a mine. I believe that was his greatest feat. Surely Tanaka's fame was well earned whereas some others have been worshipped for far less.
Ahh now...Halsey was the bull in the China shop.
At least he was not timid.
“It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.”
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
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The point has been made that Halsey should have commanded the Battle of the PHillipine Sea, and Spruance the Battle of Leyte Gulf...Ah well, history plays its own games with us...
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