Foreign intervention

Strategic Command: American Civil War gives you the opportunity to battle for the future of the United States in this grand strategy game. Command the Confederacy in a desperate struggle for independence, or lead the Union armies in a march on Richmond.

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Morsey
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Foreign intervention

Post by Morsey »

Why are countries that outlawed slavery coming into the war on the side of Confederates?

That is ahistorical. Is that the intent of this game?
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Platoonist
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Platoonist »

Morsey wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 6:19 pm Why are countries that outlawed slavery coming into the war on the side of Confederates?

That is ahistorical. Is that the intent of this game?
They don't intervene without a lot of Confederate gold being spent and victories won. Frankly as the Union all you have to do is match them on diplomatic resources spent and get the Emancipation Proclamation into place and the chances of foreign intervention recede to negligible. Especially if you capture a few key points.
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BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

Intervention was seriously discussed in the European capitals particularly in the first half of the war. The Confederates sent diplomats to Europe in an effort to secure diplomatic recognition - which Lincoln declared would be tantamount to war. Lincoln himself spent a lot of time moving very carefully to keep the Europeans out, and was quite worried his efforts would fail - the best example of this being the Emancipation Proclamation not being issued until the war was 18 months old (remember that until 1863, the war was fought to preserve the Union, not to end slavery).

At the very least, intervention was treated as a serious threat, and the game forces you to do the same. If as the Union you play historically - no Garibaldi, prioritise the capture of CS ports, take Nashville early &c - the Europeans won't come in. They won't even get very close to coming in - which lines up with what historically happened. If you play ahistorically, then I think it is fair that your opposition would play ahistorically too.

This series is no stranger to events not necessarily matching history - Sealion is a commonly used strategy in the WW2 games, but would have been impossible in real life. Same for Japan outright conquering China or Australia. But all these things were the basis of serious discussions throughout the war, possibilities that had to be accounted for - and if they were actually impossible in the game, players would simply dismiss them as such, which would arguably be just as ahistorical.

If it hadn't actually happened, we'd talk of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in the same terms (the world's biggest anti-communist making a deal with the leader of communism? come on!). Such unlikely events keep games interesting :D

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Morsey
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Morsey »

Thanks for the reply. In my opinion, the UK is too overpowered when it comes in and will end the game for North in a few turns. (Level 4 infantry and a huge and powerful Navy is way too much power for the North to handle; besides the fact that the UK would not have joined a war on the side with slave owners.)
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Platoonist
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Platoonist »

Morsey wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 5:56 pm Thanks for the reply. In my opinion, the UK is too overpowered when it comes in and will end the game for North in a few turns. (Level 4 infantry and a huge and powerful Navy is way too much power for the North to handle; besides the fact that the UK would not have joined a war on the side with slave owners.)
If you want to cut the risk of war in the game with the UK to zero you have the option. To disable all the European mechanics, when you are setting up the campaign go to Advanced -> Scripts -> Decisions, and disable DE 1000: Disable to Play Without European Entry. Then it's simply North versus South as it was historically.
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Morsey
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Morsey »

Does this work with a Multiplayer game too?
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Platoonist »

Morsey wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 8:53 pm Does this work with a Multiplayer game too?
If I understand the code usage correctly the line #AI= 0 means this event will fire for any type of game, no other considerations or restrictions. That includes both AI and Multiplayer. So, it seems it should work for both. The entries #AI= 1-4 tend to limit the event to occurring only for an AI side or one side or the other in Multiplayer.

DE 1000.jpg
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Bo Rearguard
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Bo Rearguard »

I'd almost forgotten there was the option to turn European intervention off as I've never seen it happen playing as the Union. Grab or raid an exposed port like Jacksonville or New Berne and the Confederates quickly look like a poor bet to any foreign backer. Counter them with your larger income if it looks like they're gaining any diplomatic leverage abroad. Seems like the Union would have to already be in very sad shape long before any of the European powers intervene. Their arrival would be just the coup de grace.
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist ...." Union General John Sedgwick, 1864
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Platoonist »

Bo Rearguard wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 5:28 am I'd almost forgotten there was the option to turn European intervention off as I've never seen it happen playing as the Union. Grab or raid an exposed port like Jacksonville or New Berne and the Confederates quickly look like a poor bet to any foreign backer. Counter them with your larger income if it looks like they're gaining any diplomatic leverage abroad. Seems like the Union would have to already be in very sad shape long before any of the European powers intervene. Their arrival would be just the coup de grace.
I get the impression that Morsey is mostly opposed to the idea on principle. In the movie Gettysburg there is a scene where Confederate General Longstreet and British Major Fremantle discuss British intervention, and the pragmatic Longstreet is right. The South should have freed the slaves and then fired on Fort Sumter. The whole idea was a dreamy Southern hope based mostly on wishful thinking. I think the most imposing obstacle was Queen Victoria. The Brits banned slavery in the 1830s early in her reign and a whole generation of British subjects had been born and raised under her leadership seeing anti-slavery as a major theme of the realm going forward.

Seems to me that by letting King Cotton be blockaded the British cleared the stage for the development of their own booming cotton industry in India and Egypt. Who knows? Maybe that was intentional. ;)
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Morsey
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Morsey »

@Platoonist,

Thanks for the info on changing the script for no foreign intervention.

I prefer to have games closer to the actual war(s), but I have no problem with making it possible to change history. I think optionally two scenario titles may be available in the SC scenario list: historical and what-if game types.
Platoonist wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 7:02 am Longstreet and British Major Fremantle discuss British intervention and the pragmatic Longstreet is right. The South should have freed the slaves and then fired on Fort Sumter. The whole idea was a dreamy Southern hope based mostly on wishful thinking. I think the most imposing obstacle was Queen Victoria. The Brits banned slavery in the 1830s early in her reign and a whole generation of British subjects had been born and raised under her leadership seeing anti-slavery as a major theme of the realm going forward.


Spot on with the above statement.
Morsey
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Morsey »

Platoonist wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 1:19 am
Morsey wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 8:53 pm Does this work with a Multiplayer game too?
If I understand the code usage correctly the line #AI= 0 means this event will fire for any type of game, no other considerations or restrictions. That includes both AI and Multiplayer. So, it seems it should work for both. The entries #AI= 1-4 tend to limit the event to occurring only for an AI side or one side or the other in Multiplayer.


DE 1000.jpg
So do I put this in the Word file for decision within the game folder? I found the Word file but did not find anything related to DE1000. I have put code in Wordfiles before to change things within games, is this the correct thing to do?

Thanks!!
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Platoonist
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Platoonist »

Morsey wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 2:20 pm [

So do I put this in the Word file for decision within the game folder? I found the Word file but did not find anything related to DE1000. I have put code in Wordfiles before to change things within games, is this the correct thing to do?

Thanks!!

There's no need to work with or alter that file at all unless you want to mod the game. It's just telling you in game code how the event currently works.
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Morsey
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Re: Foreign intervention

Post by Morsey »

Understand that the problem I am having is the DE1000 Decision is not available in the scripting for a multiplayer game. It appears that you can only turn off or on that decision script in an SP game.
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