Price?

[Grim.Reaper]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I will also have very high future expectations for this game in terms of patches and new scenarios. Normally I am pretty understanding about patches. However if they are going to ask for this level of commitment for us then they have to keep it at their end as well by providing post release content on a regular basis.

I just wonder with the potential loss in customer base, how much support will happen if the main argument for increasing the prices was because of production costs. In addition, it was great the editors were released with the game, but if only a small crowd ends up buying, who is going to put a lot of effort in making all these customizations?

Sadly, I think all the anger and discontent being raised is mostly because we are all disppointed we can't pull the trigger on a game we have been waiting years to have come out.

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I will also have very high future expectations for this game in terms of patches and new scenarios. Normally I am pretty understanding about patches. However if they are going to ask for this level of commitment for us then they have to keep it at their end as well by providing post release content on a regular basis.

I just wonder with the potential loss in customer base, how much support will happen if the main argument for increasing the prices was because of production costs. In addition, it was great the editors were released with the game, but if only a small crowd ends up buying, who is going to put a lot of effort in making all these customizations?

Sadly, I think all the anger and discontent being raised is mostly because we are all disppointed we can't pull the trigger on a game we have been waiting years to have come out.

Despite me purchasing the game I still think this price is a bad idea and as much as I hate to say it and much of a Matrix fanboy as I am, I fully expect this to be the last Panther title.
Dave already has limited time due to his commitment to the government of Australia and unless this game makes enough money to make sense to him as a second job I don't see the series being continued.

[Grim.Reaper]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

ORIGINAL: Grim.Reaper

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I will also have very high future expectations for this game in terms of patches and new scenarios. Normally I am pretty understanding about patches. However if they are going to ask for this level of commitment for us then they have to keep it at their end as well by providing post release content on a regular basis.

I just wonder with the potential loss in customer base, how much support will happen if the main argument for increasing the prices was because of production costs. In addition, it was great the editors were released with the game, but if only a small crowd ends up buying, who is going to put a lot of effort in making all these customizations?

Sadly, I think all the anger and discontent being raised is mostly because we are all disppointed we can't pull the trigger on a game we have been waiting years to have come out.

Despite me purchasing the game I still think this price is a bad idea and as much as I hate to say it and much of a Matrix fanboy as I am, I fully expect this to be the last Panther title.
Dave already has limited time due to his commitment to the government of Australia and unless this game makes enough money to make sense to him as a second job I don't see the series being continued.

You might be right, especially with the pricing issue and bad comments being made. That certainly can't help. This is what I meant in my earlier post, is all this negativity and reduced loyal customers not buying it worth the extra $20? Only time will tell.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: loyalcitizen

What this launch really needed was news that a 3rd party Mod Community was already working on a full estab switcheroo to France 1940, for example.

Someone from the developer correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the CotA estabs are included in the Bulge game. Anyone who wants to work with the Axis and Western Allies, circa 1941, will have to get out his hammer start from scratch.[:(]

[Adam Parker]

My board wargames cost anywhere from $50 to $100 so I don't see the issue here for a brand new ie: non scenario pack title. This is the whole campaign here.

My only concerns are that this is a PC game so what might the bugs be and as I said, I'm already committed to some board game purchaesd. I'm mired in trafalgar right now - go figure for this land lubber!

Sure for some the upfront cost will be an issue - no doubt.

[jomni]

Sad.  I really liked the game engine while playing HTTR. No experience with COTA.  But I didn't play the game as long as WITP.  I'm thinking if it's just about the Battle of the Buldge, the amount of content won't be that extensive right?  It may be historically accurate and realistically modelled but it's just a small theatre.  How many Battle of the Buldge engagements are there?  How many sceaniors?  Can we create battles in other theaters and time lines? 
 
Sorry would have bought this game on impulse when it's cheaper. At this price, it has just been bumped down in the priority list a little further.

[jomni]

ORIGINAL: loyalcitizen

Can't the European players pay with Paypal, give the address of their "Summer Home" in the states [;)], and avoid the VAT?

Buy it from the US store page and use your Paypal account.

[Panther Paul]

ORIGINAL: PirateJock

I thought there was supposed to be a demo - it was definitely being talked about end of last year ... tm.asp?m=1428368&mpage=10

Hi,

We have done some preliminary work on the demo.

Now that the game is out we will start in earnest, we wanted to base it on the final code as we did not want to release a buggy demo.

At the moment we are planning a full featured demo, i.e. with both single and multi-player enabled and no time limits. The only limit will be the one scenario it comes with. And no, it wont play any of the release scenarios!

[blastpop]

ORIGINAL: gabeeg

Actually, I think Matrix should bite the bullet, swallow the pride and *quickly* announce some nice posting "Due to the overwhelming feedback of our loyal customers we are adjusting our pricing on Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge"...You have spoken and we have listened.  Please support Matrix and Panther games by purchasing this and other titles....blah...blah...blah".   Think it is obvious this is turning into a negative fiasco and sales are obviously going to be lower than expected.  If it is done quickly...this will just all be a minor blip.

I agree too. At this price point I will be VERY picky about the game and what people are saying for quite a while before I even consider buying. It better be darn near perfect... Other wise I'll save my shekels.

[emerson]

Oh well... I was really looking forward to playing this over the long weekend, but guess I'll be saving up some more money for a little while... I've just been looking forward to this title for to long to completely pass it up.

[hgilmer3]

ORIGINAL: Analog Kid
This is also a huge disappointment because I am going into the hosipital tommorrow and likely to be there for more than 3 weeks. And this was to be my distraction if it was released before late Thurs

I hope everything will be OK for you. I don't know if you are in America and Memorial Day is coming up. So, if you are in the hospital and cannot get to the forums, please let me say an early Memorial Day thanks [:)]

As for any additional thoughts from me, I just hate this for everyone concerned that is disappointed. I don't have a lot of experience with Panther Games, but from all accounts they are a great company and of course the Matrix people are great, too, so it just has a feel that we are all beating up on them.

[MajFrankBurns]

On a 2nd note though if this game came with a random battle generator instead of some editor that only computer science majors can use I would probably pay the $80 since random generators keep games alive for a long long time. But built in scenarios and even player made ones just get old and samey and the feeling of been there done that comes along quite early in the life of those types of games.
 
It's like Combat Mission and Steel Panthers and even Panzer Command Kharkov I've never played one of those built in scenarios or player made ones on any of them. I've always used the battle and/or campaign random generators in them. I still do to this day so shows they give the games a lot more longevity than built in scenarios do.

[jomni]

Great idea.  Random battle generator will make the game last longer.

[bairdlander2]

ORIGINAL: rosseau



Anybody remember paying $80 U.S. for Gary Grigsby's War in Russia for the Atari 800 back in 1983? I bet some of you do...

I do as well as several other titles at the time.I remember one store in particular that charged me $70 for a Battle of the Bulge game.Anyway considering the games of back then were about the same price,i dont see what the big deal is.

[Max 86]

I can understand the sticker shock issue but I feel that it comes down to price per hour played/enjoyed. When I bought WitP at $80 it became the only game I played for probably close to a year. Its quality and enjoyment more than justified the cost.

However, if I was a person that bought 10+ games a year or more then I would be hesitant to purchase. No reason to pay that price for a month or two of fun before the next MUST HAVE wargame is released and you switch to the next obsession.

I'm just not that kind of person. I purchase 2-3 titles per year max and still go back to old tried and true favorites like COG, WitP, Puresim and others.

I think each person should look at their game budget for an entire year and see if this price is less than that. One excellent $90 game that has many months of play value is less expensive than 5 $40 games that you only play for a month then discard.

I see this game much in the same light as WitP or COG, its something I will dive into for months and before its over it will cost me about 10 cents per hour of great fun. Count me in. I may have to save money from a couple of paychecks but this is a must buy for me and the good things I have heard about Panther Games gives me the confidence that this will be a good long term investment.

One last comment. Anyone who thinks they are going to buy the ULTIMATE wargame for $40 is fooling themselves. By not buying this title you are sending out a message that it is not in a company's interest to develop these high quality games because they are too expensive and yet we will all b!tch and moan all day long about the inadequacies and bugs of cheaper less developed titles. We can't have it both ways. [;)]

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

£56 and £63? With tax that's £66 and £74 - really - OUCH!

I SERIOUSLY cannot buy a game that costs that...Way to much money. Good luck Dave - but I'm checking out. [:(] Very sad.

What he said. I've loved this series to date, but it's never had the 'one game to the exclusion of all others' feel that might justify any comparison to WitP, particularly considering Matrix/DM insistence on avoiding the 'local' pricing that is pretty much standard elsewhere. Normal 'full price', maybe, but no more.

Sorry, Panther and Matrix.

[Fred98]

With most things in life if you want it badly enough the price doesn't matter !

-

[Laramie]

I lurk often, post seldom - buy all the Panther games and a number of others here. I completely understand Matrix and Panther Games' reasoning and it certainly is their investment and their experience, which I have to respect. But like many here, thinking the sim would be in the $55-60 range, the actual price is out of my range for now. I had intended to purchase it at release, partly because of anticipation, but also to show support. Regrettably, that's not going to work at least for now as I am priced out as many others here.

I do hope that the business side of Matrix and Panther have considered carefully the price and volume relationships, and have seen enough track record from their other experience to have confidence that they can make a better profit from the high price, and not from increased volume.

[jomni]

Increased volume means more players.
More bugs discovered.
More complaining grognard nitpicking fanboys.
More developer time in bug fixing.
Less profit.
Lol!

Anyway because of this issue I think I will start playing HTTR again. Who know's I might change my mind about the price of Buldge with all the improvements.

[axisandallies]

ORIGINAL: Max 86

I can understand the sticker shock issue but I feel that it comes down to price per hour played/enjoyed. When I bought WitP at $80 it became the only game I played for probably close to a year. Its quality and enjoyment more than justified the cost.

However, if I was a person that bought 10+ games a year or more then I would be hesitant to purchase. No reason to pay that price for a month or two of fun before the next MUST HAVE wargame is released and you switch to the next obsession.

I'm just not that kind of person. I purchase 2-3 titles per year max and still go back to old tried and true favorites like COG, WitP, Puresim and others.

I think each person should look at their game budget for an entire year and see if this price is less than that. One excellent $90 game that has many months of play value is less expensive than 5 $40 games that you only play for a month then discard.

I see this game much in the same light as WitP or COG, its something I will dive into for months and before its over it will cost me about 10 cents per hour of great fun. Count me in. I may have to save money from a couple of paychecks but this is a must buy for me and the good things I have heard about Panther Games gives me the confidence that this will be a good long term investment.

One last comment. Anyone who thinks they are going to buy the ULTIMATE wargame for $40 is fooling themselves. By not buying this title you are sending out a message that it is not in a company's interest to develop these high quality games because they are too expensive and yet we will all b!tch and moan all day long about the inadequacies and bugs of cheaper less developed titles. We can't have it both ways. [;)]

your kidding right? so you are saying that $40 games are played for a month then discarded? No bugs for high end games aye? I play alot of wargames I have seen it all. I won't buy this title based on the price, am I sending a message?