How to possibly save the Soviets. (stjeand as Axis)

[sveint]

After Soviet moves

[sveint]

June 5, 1942

8 armies pocketed and it's game over.

Oops wrong screenshot, I think I messed up and lost the screen capture.

[Flaviusx]

I am very doubtful that merely junking the airforce by itself will resolve this, but in any event I see the challenge has been laid down and accepted and we will find out soon enough. It *will* help some, no doubt.

The point, imo, is moot. Because even if true, if this is the only way the Soviets can deal with it, it's just another way of saying things are borked and we need a fix. It ought not require that. And Sveint is not wrong in wanting to resist this gimmick and seeing it as a gimmick.

[CrackingShow]

I'm just a noob but I think that GER base XP should come down to 60% and the Sov starting 20% xp corps need to come up to 30%.

I don't know why Germany gets super soldiers and the Red army is made up of Boy Scouts.

[stjeand]

I did not really do all that much different as the Germans...
1) I do not build air units. I should build a fighter or 2 but always wait until it is too late.
2) Need to keep multiple armor units in Africa...or it will fall quickly.
3) I now keep armor/mech in the Netherlands. NO MORE invasions there.


When I play Russia...
1) I do not disband any units. A 20% mech is better in my eyes than a 30% infantry. They a basically mobile garrisoned infantry. BUT this is just me.
2) I do NOT repair any infantry corps. I found out when they convert to armies they get fully repaired for free so...I won't repair them any more.
3) I want to build 39 corps I think rather than 40 and 41 as they get better...but I did not against Harry and I don't have enough units now so that was a bad choice.
4) Do not repair much...those units normally get overrun before they can get repairs so I try to build an army per turn...
5) I do not disband the air...that is a cheap play...

[sveint]

ORIGINAL: CrackingShow

I'm just a noob but I think that GER base XP should come down to 60% and the Sov starting 20% xp corps need to come up to 30%.

I don't know why Germany gets super soldiers and the Red army is made up of Boy Scouts.

You'll find the same bias in every WW2 game (mostly designed by American or Europeans). The Chinese are likewise underestimated.

[stjeand]

It would be possible to say all new German armies come in with 60% experience since it is expected that their starting ones had really good training.

BUT as Al said...who wants to play a game that they can not win ever?
IF Germany is not able to win with 60% soldiers and lose 100% of the time then this is no longer a game but a simulation.

I am playing because there is a chance to win...
IF someone said here play this this you will lose 100% of the time...then I would go play something else.

We play for the competition.

What we need to find is where that balance lies for two equal opponents.

Is it:

1) Changing the rail repair rate in Russia?
2) Adding more reserve units to slow down the Germans more?
3) Making the armor lose more efficiency when attacking or moving?
4) Increase the Russian experience back?


Sadly all these options would have to be tested individually and just one game takes 3 to 4 weeks to get to this point.
So we never get anywhere.


All I can say is...at the moment I am testing with Harry the rail repair change. He said it definitely slowed him down.
Sadly I am far from a good Allies player and have lost probably twice the units the Russians normally do. My army is smaller than the German army which in my eyes means the Russians are doomed.


I WISH we had a test scenario that starting in September 1940 when the Germans were done with France and Yugoslavia that gave the Russians all the point and they could build what they wanted for the war...as well as the Germans, and the other Allies...then test much faster.
Taking a month to figure out something does not work means it is unlikely we will figure it out.

[sveint]

But winning is based on victory points. Not on total world conquest.

The Soviets collapsing completely should be an exceptional event that only happens if the Allied player is completely outmatched.

Victory for the Axis is still being in Russia in 1945 (on the defensive).

Alvaro has already stated that the Soviets are artifically limited in production. That's all I need to know. The game is balanced to be an Axis power fantasy.
Either balance the game for Victory points (yes please) or for Total World Conquest (no thanks, not my type of game).

And why is Soviet production less than historical? Why not the US? It's the same old pro-German bias. Somehow the German generals lost the war but won the battle for history. Those generals were nowhere near as great as represented in the game. Nor Patton for that matter.

[sveint]

Prediction for WarPlan2: The Great Squeeze. Germany and Japan co-invade the Soviets and the Axis wins. I hope I'm wrong.

[CrackingShow]

I also don't know why German Generals are super duper awesome.

I laughed when I saw Patton's statistics!

I'd like it if the game was based around VPs. Perhaps make it so that if Germany and Italy capitulate they can get a draw if the VPs are very one sided, to represent how the Allied leaders win the war but lose the elections back home because they took too long/lost too many men winning the war.

You could steal some ideas from War in the West, where the Allies lose VPs for taking casualties, so that if the Axis player does a good job holding land for a long time, and causes a lot of casualties he can get the win even if he doesn't occupy much of Europe by the end of the game.

[stjeand]

The game is based around VPs...but most people do not continue the game.
And since they stop you can't get a feel for what the VPs would look like.
I have yet to see a game reach that stage.

One issue is when Germany is defeated along with Italy the game continues until the last turn. There is nothing for the Allies to do but keep pushing next turn over and over.
There should be a button to say end game from current state and it would calculate all the VPs going forward based upon current situation and display results.

As for Generals...well that I can't speak too.
For the most part the German generals were extremely well versed in war and strategy and highly trained...but they were overruled often by Hitler.

In Russia all their Generals were pretty much killed and replaced.
In the UK many were appointed due to their family connections.
Can't speak for the US...Patton had experience at least in WW1 being a tank officer. So would certainly qualify for a bit more brains though reckless.

Personally I would like generals to have more stats but for the moment they are good.

[Nirosi]

One issue is when Germany is defeated along with Italy the game continues until the last turn.

I was under the impression that this was only if Axis minors were still active? In my game with PL1, it stopped when all countries were gone.

[stjeand]

Did it?

I played the computer and the Axis was gone in last 43 and the game just kept going and going...I gave up after 3 months of pressing next turn.

Perhaps that was fixed at some point.

[Nirosi]

In the game with the AAR it did stop the last turn of 44 with the fall of the last German city and showed the victory screen. However, in an earlier one with PL1 (no AAR) it did not, but Finland was still active. So that is why I asked of there was still an Axis ally somewhere, could have been the cause.

it could also be a bug that happens only under certain precise conditions?

[michaelCLARADY]

Without lend-lease the soviet forces would have been far weaker. The soviet leadership at the start in 1941 was composed of officers sufficiently inept to not arouse stalin's paranoia. Stalin had been making war on the russian folk for two decades. His regime was hated but feared even more. Not knowing the brutality of the germans its no surprise that entire russian divisions shot their commisars abd then turned coat.

The Chinese Nationalist Army towards the end of WW2 had many good units but were betrayed in the civil war following by many CCP sleepers of high rank which Nationalist Intel failed to expose.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: sveint

The Soviets collapsing completely should be an exceptional event that only happens if the Allied player is completely outmatched.

Alvaro has already stated that the Soviets are artifically limited in production. That's all I need to know. The game is balanced to be an Axis power fantasy.

In which thread please? I am currently doing my own research.