Tips for improving ASW as Allies vs CPU IJN Marianas Scenario 1944?

[s96825]

Any tips for improving ASW to protect my CV TFs in the Marianas Scenario? It's 1944 so technology is better than in the Solomons campaign.

Using the forum search and the manual so far I've done the following:

1. created dedicated ASW TFs as hunter squads to go ahead of the carriers to sweep path/pounce on sighted SSs approaching the CVs.

Based on the search function, I've been using 3 DDs per ASW group. I tried 2 DDs and liked the increased coverage area but feel like I was get more kills with the 3 ship groups. plus, if 1 ship runs of out of ammo, I can send it home to replenish while keeping the other 2 at work. So I've been using 3 ship groups of Fletchers with an ASW rating of 8.

2. Invested in leadership in ASW task forces.

In each DD group of 3 fletchers I've been personally picking the captains of each boat. I pick guys with high naval and aggression. In one elite task force for fun I was considering picking Arleigh Burke as Captain!

I did not yet invest in the captains of the DDs in the CV task force itself.

3. Increased the number of escorts per CV TF.

At first I was using 8 DDs per CV task force. 6 Fletchers ASW of 8 with 2 DDs with ASW 6. Why not all Fletchers? why include the 2 6s? It was to distribute the load so that I would not run out of Fletchers as I needed them elsewhere- for dedicated ASW groups for example. I was running 6 CV task forces and 3 BB SAGs so there is a finite number of DDs to go around.

I upped the number of escorts per CV task force to 10. This time I used 10 Fletchers. No luck- we kill a decent amount of subs but 1 or 2 get in and always land a torpedo to a CV or BB. Maybe upping the escorts to 12 will help?


I considered using DE class boats as escorts because they have an ASW rating of 11 but they would slow the CV TFs down significantly. Instead I used the DEs for things like supply convoy escort as their speed fits more with those boats.


I considered making a few dedicated ASW hunter groups with 3 DE class boats. But being how slow they are, I worry they won't keep up with the CVs and fall out of the air coverage umbrella and get picked off IJN aircraft.


4. Increased ASW aircraft patrols from carrier aircraft.

This seems to help increase the number of sightings. I get a ton of hit messages in the message log (ie :::: RO Class sub hit by Dauntless at 106, 98) So far in this game it seems like you get a tons of these messages but not a lot of actual kills. Though looking at the ships sunk log it seems a Dauntless actually did take out a sub with a 500 pound bomb.

I understand its hard to kill subs with planes. I don't have any false hopes that I will get a lot of kills. If anything I use aircraft more to identify the subs so my ASW groups can pounce.





Any tips for improving CV TF protection in this scenario?

[DConn]

I typically have an ASW TF of 4 DEs accompanying my CVs; seems to work, and you can always detach them if the carriers need to make a high-speed run.

[RangerJoe]

Massed trained Avengers at 1000 or 100 feet on ASW.

[s96825]

I typically have an ASW TF of 4 DEs accompanying my CVs; seems to work, and you can always detach them if the carriers need to make a high-speed run.

Sounds like a good idea. Curious how you do this as far as game interface goes.

For example,

Situation 1 you want the DEs in the same hex as the CV.

Method 1: do you use the follow task force option and have your DE ASW TF follow the CV TF at distance zero?

Method 2: Say the CV task force speed (to make the numbers easy) is 10 hexes per turn and the DE speed is 5. Do you set the CVs to move forward 5 hexs ( ie half their speed) then set a green patrol zone for the DEs 5 hexes ahead so the turn ends with the DEs patrolling in same hex as the CV?

Method 3: Do you set to move the DE and CV TF to the same hex 5 hexes away? (yellow hexes no green patrol set).

Trying to learn different ways to set things up using this games interface.

[s96825]

Massed trained Avengers at 1000 or 100 feet on ASW.

Nice. The aircraft do seem to help with detection.

[RangerJoe]

Massed trained Avengers at 1000 or 100 feet on ASW.

Nice. The aircraft do seem to help with detection.

Not just that but the subs have less time to dive to safety.

I run 17Ds on 1000 feet on ASW off Australia early in the campaign game, they have a better range than the Whirlaways do but the Whirlaways really concentrate the Air ASW to a few hexes. Combined with Hudsons at 6,000 feet on Naval search and 3 DD ASW TFs, they kill a few subs. One Japanese sub was damaged and finished off by a 500 pound bomb from a B17D.

[btd64]

Massed trained Avengers at 1000 or 100 feet on ASW.

Nice. The aircraft do seem to help with detection.

The Avengers at that time have radar....GP

[BBfanboy]

From what I've seen, the biggest mistake Allied players make is keeping their CVs "On Station" in an area of three or four hexes for days at a time. Carriers need to dart in, do their strike and move out more hexes than a sub can cover in a day. CVEs can linger - they are expendable. Also, since some IJ subs have float planes, be sure to set some CAP at around 6000 feet (optimum altitude for search).

[s96825]

Massed trained Avengers at 1000 or 100 feet on ASW.

Nice. The aircraft do seem to help with detection.

Not just that but the subs have less time to dive to safety.

I run 17Ds on 1000 feet on ASW off Australia early in the campaign game, they have a better range than the Whirlaways do but the Whirlaways really concentrate the Air ASW to a few hexes. Combined with Hudsons at 6,000 feet on Naval search and 3 DD ASW TFs, they kill a few subs. One Japanese sub was damaged and finished off by a 500 pound bomb from a B17D.

Thanks, I would have got more out of my 17s in the Solomons Scenario had I put some of them to this task.

[s96825]

Massed trained Avengers at 1000 or 100 feet on ASW.

Nice. The aircraft do seem to help with detection.

The Avengers at that time have radar....GP

Love those avengers. Solid workhorses, can't have enough of them on board!

[s96825]

From what I've seen, the biggest mistake Allied players make is keeping their CVs "On Station" in an area of three or four hexes for days at a time. Carriers need to dart in, do their strike and move out more hexes than a sub can cover in a day. CVEs can linger - they are expendable. Also, since some IJ subs have float planes, be sure to set some CAP at around 6000 feet (optimum altitude for search).

Thanks, helpful advice. I was parking my CVs off the Marianas for days and pounding the airfields and ports.

Does detection level factor into enemy submarine success? ie when the CV task forces are 10/10 DL, does that improve the chances an enemy sub is successful in attacking my CVs?

[RangerJoe]

From what I've seen, the biggest mistake Allied players make is keeping their CVs "On Station" in an area of three or four hexes for days at a time. Carriers need to dart in, do their strike and move out more hexes than a sub can cover in a day. CVEs can linger - they are expendable. Also, since some IJ subs have float planes, be sure to set some CAP at around 6000 feet (optimum altitude for search).

Thanks, helpful advice. I was parking my CVs off the Marianas for days and pounding the airfields and ports.

Does detection level factor into enemy submarine success? ie when the CV task forces are 10/10 DL, does that improve the chances an enemy sub is successful in attacking my CVs?

If they know where the target is (general location) but you don't know that there is a submarine in the area . . .

Not for the attack per se, but rather knowing where the targets are, I would say yes.