The mighty M3 Stuart

[Alpha77]

See here this vid from Jochen Heiden...he also posts here sometimes ... but seems a bit confused so I ask here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si73SbR ... nlWUZ7XZ3B

You only need to check 26.00 - 29.00 and if possible also put this on full screen and HD and check the tanks values... he says his version is "stock"... cannot be cause in both stock 1+2 the values are more correct / lower.

Any idea which mod this is which has for some reason these high unrealistic values? Thanks Cause he insists that this version is "stock" but these values are NOT stock. Also he cannot compare a tank with infantry these are 2 different tasks. Compare tank with tank and squad with squad.

[BBfanboy]

Why do you think it is a mod? I looked at Scenario 1 (Version 11.26a, not the new 11.27 Beta) and the values he quotes are the same: Anti Armor - 70 - the Stuart had a good high velocity gun and presumably good anti-armor shells. 70 represents 70mm of armor penetration if you get a hit angle of 90º.
Anti-soft 28 - that represents the two mgs (hull and turret coaxial with the cannon) and cannon of the Stuart, which presumably had some HE shells for soft targets. I am not sure if the Stuart also had an mg on top of the turret.
And if you are not aware, the M5 Stuart has the same Anti-Armor and Anti-Soft values. It has a bit more armor - 60 instead of 45.

What he says about tanks being very effective despite the low AV count is true - the Japanese did not have much in the way of anti-tank weapons early in the war, especially hand held ones. So the tanks were almost invulnerable to IJ infantry and the tank firepower could be brought right into their positions.

[Yaab]

If you look closely at the stats, Marmon Herrington armored car is the best early-war "tank" in Commonwealth units.

BTW, Japs have on average more combat engineer squads. Those squads have Penetration rating 0, but they can pile up their Anti-Armor rating while fighting tanks disabling them, and even destroying them as per Symon info here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9#p3202409

[BananaConvention]

See here this vid from Jochen Heiden...he also posts here sometimes ... but seems a bit confused so I ask here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si73SbR ... nlWUZ7XZ3B

You only need to check 26.00 - 29.00 and if possible also put this on full screen and HD and check the tanks values... he says his version is "stock"... cannot be cause in both stock 1+2 the values are more correct / lower.

Any idea which mod this is which has for some reason these high unrealistic values? Thanks Cause he insists that this version is "stock" but these values are NOT stock. Also he cannot compare a tank with infantry these are 2 different tasks. Compare tank with tank and squad with squad.

I see you. Confused, eh?

[Alpha77]

I remember what the issue of you both (Jochen and BBfanboy) are, you missed the hotfix where some tank values were way improved to "stock" still many issues left but for sure better than your outdated version...

...it also fixed an IJ radar update bug (will be stuck w/ old radar if you do not fix it yourself in editor without this hotfix). Plus some other small things iirc. Not sure if this fix is still for download tho.

For info, first M3 both Brits and US should have (w the hotfix!): Scen1

ACC9
PEN42
EF2
AR25
Aarmor42
Asoft17



But ur also right, as ur not using a mod, ur version is just not up to date

[BBfanboy]

Let's get our terminology on the same page. To me, a MOD is an official version of the game modified by users to make a different version of a stock scenario and give it a new scenario number. Mods are not official so they are not offered by Matrix - you need to get them from a third party.

Then there are the Betas. The .1126b version of the game was called a Beta for a long time as changes were being made but when Matrix stopped making further changes to it, it became one of the official game versions (along with 1126a which was updated with all the 1126b changes but the install locations are slightly different). That means the last official versions of the game are .1126a and.1126b .

The new 1127 version is still under development in the testing and tweaking stage. It is available to the community to help find bugs and other issues but AFAIK Matrix has not said "This is the new official version". To me the changes still happening make it a Beta.

So please stop referring to the official versions as outdated. That may confuse some new players into taking on the new .1127Beta and being confounded by changes and new maps etc. IMO it is not yet settled how to deal with the new map bases and supply distribution etc. New players do not need these complications - they should start learning on the tried and true official versions. And another thing - the new .1127Beta does not include all the short scenarios that are very useful for beginners.

And as a matter of preference, I am not as keen to get historically accurate details down to the last millimeter of armour on a tank. It's a game. If it plays fairly realistically and forces the player to think like a real commander of units with these weapons, that is what I want in the game. Too much trivia bogs it down for me. (e.g., one could easily get bogged down in the detail of how many 20mm guns were placed where on WWII capital ships, including variations within the ship class - but it would make little difference to game play).

[Alpha77]

Yes, as I said, your version with the wrong values and the radar bug etc. are NOT mods. So Jochen was right...

... you just miss this hotfix. One can easily check this looking at the values and if this "taichi3"(I believe this was it) radar has the right upgrade path in editor

It has nothing to do with the new version btw.
As the newest "beta" 11.27 version does not touch any tank values at all AFAIK

But if you can live with the bad values and no radar update.. you do not need the hotfix ofc

Possibly Steel Panthers all versions are taken together my most played games and I also did some scen editing etc. for it. I must have played over 100 PBMs too of these - but ofc they are much shorter turns..This is a tank/gun "nerd" game
So I am more interested also in the land based values of this game compared to usual player that are more into navy and have more knowledge there too

[BBfanboy]

Thanks. That clarifies that you were talking about fixes being applied as a mod of the stock game. Nothing wrong with that for those that want to take up the fixes. I suspect it will be a long time before you run out of historical/technical details to fix! Good luck!