Slitherine Forces to Pull Afghanistan game due to "focus on killing"

[Rusty1961]

Ask not for whom the bell tolls.

https://www.polygon.com/2018/12/6/18128 ... re-removed

Yep, Apple forces the delisting from their App Store.

1. You're delusional if you think it stops there. All our games to one degree or another "focus on killing".

2. Will Slitherine fight back and remove all games in protest or roll over like a female dog in heat for Apple?

3. Corporate America (Apple is an example) has an insatiable desire to control all thought and content.

4. The Gods of political correctness can not be satiated or placated.

Good times!

[FlyByKnight]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Ask not for whom the bell tolls.

https://www.polygon.com/2018/12/6/18128 ... re-removed

Yep, Apple forces the delisting from their App Store.

1. You're delusional if you think it stops there. All our games to one degree or another "focus on killing".

2. Will Slitherine fight back and remove all games in protest or roll over like a female dog in heat for Apple?

3. Corporate America (Apple is an example) has an insatiable desire to control all thought and content.

4. The Gods of political correctness can not be satiated or placated.

Good times!

What a joke. Give these technofascist SOBs an inch and they can take a mile. Their social engineering has had mind-boggling effects on society and the new generation. That's part of how they get away with alarming acts of censorship like this.
Same for the 'PC' crowd. Nothing satisfies them. The good intentions have faded into memory (or out of it).
Funny how this kind of censorship used to be advocated by know-nothing morality warriors like Jack Thompson.

[Lokasenna]

Oh hey look, Apple doing a boneheaded thing as usual and somebody blowing such boneheaded behavior out of proportion and applying to everybody they disagree with.

Business as usual.

[Treetop64]

Well, it is Apple we are talking about here. The mega-giant left-wing fundamentalists of the technological world. Is anyone really surprised?

It's one of the reasons why I've never bought anything from Apple, ever.

[Lokasenna]

Get real.

The real reason you shouldn't buy things from Apple is their products are overpriced for what they are, if not (in some cases, and mostly historical ones rather than contemporary ones) downright inferior for most uses. True, nowadays the inferiority is largely in the realm of preferences (e.g., if a greater degree of software freedom is something you desire then Apple is inferior) than performance, but still.

[Trugrit]

I don’t think there is much to worry about in this as far as the banning of other historical wargames are concerned.

The article lists at least 7 other historical wargames that Apple has not banned.
They have no problem with them. US forces are featured in many of them.

There must be something unique about the Taliban. What can that be?

My guess is that Apple is getting heat (and fear) from a certain religious persuasion.

It may be that Apple views the war in Afghanistan as a religious war instead of a struggle against terrorism.

The other reason may be that Apple, which has facilities all over the world, is afraid of a
certain religious persuasion and does not want to make that persuasion angry for some reason.

I think it would be more honest for Apple to say that they are going to ban all wargames
that have a religious connotation but my guess is that there are other religious persuasions
in the world that Apple would not ban if they were being attacked.

It may be best if we close this thread.

[Rusty1961]

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


I don’t think there is much to worry about in this as far as the banning of other historical wargames are concerned.

The article lists at least 7 other historical wargames that Apple has not banned.
They have no problem with them. US forces are featured in many of them.

There must be something unique about the Taliban. What can that be?

My guess is that Apple is getting heat (and fear) from a certain religious persuasion.

It may be that Apple views the war in Afghanistan as a religious war instead of a struggle against terrorism.

The other reason may be that Apple, which has facilities all over the world, is afraid of a
certain religious persuasion and does not want to make that persuasion angry for some reason.

I think it would be more honest for Apple to say that they are going to ban all wargames
that have a religious connotation but my guess is that there are other religious persuasions
in the world that Apple would not ban if they were being attacked.

It may be best if we close this thread.

Yes, I agree. The best way to honor a thread about censoring our industry is to censor the thread.

Thank you!

[Treetop64]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Get real.

The real reason you shouldn't buy things from Apple is their products are overpriced for what they are, if not (in some cases, and mostly historical ones rather than contemporary ones) downright inferior for most uses. True, nowadays the inferiority is largely in the realm of preferences (e.g., if a greater degree of software freedom is something you desire then Apple is inferior) than performance, but still.

I agree. It's another reason why I never bothered with anything from Apple. For as far back as I can remember their stuff has been obscenely overpriced, restrictively proprietary, and not as useful.

[Bullwinkle58]

If you re-read the article in the OP's post, and think about how poorly written and slanted it is, you might regret some of the comments in this thread.

Probably not, though. Recently this forum loves to wallow in right-wing angst.

In particular boys and girls, see if you can tell the difference between real-life Taliban in a war THAT IS STILL GOING ON, and the comparison the article makes to the USSR and NATO, one of which does not exist any longer. Let alone the stupid comparison to WWII and the Nazis. Also note that the quote from Apple is partial, short, without context, and edited to make the article's slant work. Huh.

[BBfanboy]

I was wondering why people who care about their soldiers so much do not think of the possible impact of seeing this Taliban game on a solder who has gone through hell fighting them in real life. It doesn't take much to touch off a PTSD episode and every time that happens it gets harder to push back the horror and live a normal life. I would gladly give up my "right" to play a game to avoid adding to their suffering.

[Canoerebel]

Hey, Moose, I wish you wouldn't categorize people into wings. No doubt the good people of the Forum have strong political and social opinions, but most of us veer away from expressing opinions or otherwise stepping over boundaries. There are a few who have trouble exercising restraint, but by-in-large its a bunch of good eggs.

[durnedwolf]

Covering the same story but from the Washington Times...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/7/apple-cuts-historical-war-game-afghanistan-11-whic/

[MakeeLearn]

Peace can be just as harmful as war.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, Moose, I wish you wouldn't categorize people into wings. No doubt the good people of the Forum have strong political and social opinions, but most of us veer away from expressing opinions or otherwise stepping over boundaries. There are a few who have trouble exercising restraint, but by-in-large its a bunch of good eggs.

Gee, CR. I was willing to let this go, but since you called me out by name . . .

"1. You're delusional if you think it stops there. All our games to one degree or another "focus on killing".

2. Will Slitherine fight back and remove all games in protest or roll over like a female dog in heat for Apple?

3. Corporate America (Apple is an example) has an insatiable desire to control all thought and content.

4. The Gods of political correctness can not be satiated or placated."

"What a joke. Give these technofascist SOBs an inch and they can take a mile. Their social engineering has had mind-boggling effects on society and the new generation. That's part of how they get away with alarming acts of censorship like this.
Same for the 'PC' crowd. Nothing satisfies them"

"The mega-giant left-wing fundamentalists of the technological world"

"There must be something unique about the Taliban. What can that be?

My guess is that Apple is getting heat (and fear) from a certain religious persuasion. "

(A "persuasion"? Really? A major world religion with over a billion adherents is not a "persuasion.")

And oh, yeah. From the same post "It may be best if we close this thread." After a successful drive-by hit, change the gun laws.


So I call 'em like I see 'em.

Moderation of the forum has largely been honored in the breach of late, and this type of troll thread has grown more common, especially by the OP. Look at his recent thread list and one finds the B-1 bomber, the USS Zumwalt, the Norwegian frigate disaster, and several others all calculated to get responses such as those I listed above.

To the "controversy" itself, Slitherine is spinning like a top. The issue is not "historical wargames" at all; Afghanistan isn't history. It's current events. I'm sure the seven fatherless children of Major Brent Taylor, killed last month in Afghanistan, would be heartened to know he died so there might be grist for a game. Perhaps Slitherine could send each of them a free copy.

As for Apple, it is easy to see that they are acting in accordance with their published standards for App Store content. I was on my back, in bed, in the dark on my phone, without my glasses on, so it took me three whole minutes to find their app developer standards on the subject:


https://developer.apple.com/app-store/r ... uidelines/

"1.1 Objectionable Content

Apps should not include content that is offensive, insensitive, upsetting, intended to disgust, or in exceptionally poor taste. Examples of such content include:
1.1.1 Defamatory, discriminatory, or mean-spirited content, including references or commentary about religion, race, sexual orientation, gender, national/ethnic origin, or other targeted groups, particularly if the app is likely to humiliate, intimidate, or place a targeted individual or group in harm’s way. Professional political satirists and humorists are generally exempt from this requirement.

1.1.2 Realistic portrayals of people or animals being killed, maimed, tortured, or abused, or content that encourages violence. “Enemies” within the context of a game cannot solely target a specific race, culture, real government, corporation, or any other real entity."

But hey, why inject facts into a good troll?

[Canoerebel]

I have no objection to politely calling folks out on conduction violations or other serious breaches of decorum. The Forum has a good record of self-policing.

My words were simply meant as a polite way (hence the use of your name, and you know how I feel about your personally - highly) of saying, "Don't politicize this by suggesting the bad comments are coming from the "right wing" or "left wing" or whatever other broad categories we use unartfully. Dismissing the sincerely held beliefs of others as "right wing angst" is rather contemptuous. Some of the comments in here have indeed been silly/irrational/paranoid/extreme, but we shouldn't be suggesting that those apply to all people on the right.

[Anachro]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
1.1.2 Realistic portrayals of people or animals being killed, maimed, tortured, or abused, or content that encourages violence. “Enemies” within the context of a game cannot solely target a specific race, culture, real government, corporation, or any other real entity."

I guess no historical wargame should be on the appstore if I'm reading this correctly.

[Anachro]

While we are on the topic of Apple's app store, there is an interesting anti-trust Supreme Court case coming up in regards to the "monopoly" like status of Apple's store. It could weaken Apple's ability to charge exorbitant fees to software developers on it's app store. We'll see.

LINK HERE

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, Moose, I wish you wouldn't categorize people into wings. No doubt the good people of the Forum have strong political and social opinions, but most of us veer away from expressing opinions or otherwise stepping over boundaries. There are a few who have trouble exercising restraint, but by-in-large its a bunch of good eggs.

Gee, CR. I was willing to let this go, but since you called me out by name . . .

"1. You're delusional if you think it stops there. All our games to one degree or another "focus on killing".

2. Will Slitherine fight back and remove all games in protest or roll over like a female dog in heat for Apple?

3. Corporate America (Apple is an example) has an insatiable desire to control all thought and content.

4. The Gods of political correctness can not be satiated or placated."

"What a joke. Give these technofascist SOBs an inch and they can take a mile. Their social engineering has had mind-boggling effects on society and the new generation. That's part of how they get away with alarming acts of censorship like this.
Same for the 'PC' crowd. Nothing satisfies them"

"The mega-giant left-wing fundamentalists of the technological world"

"There must be something unique about the Taliban. What can that be?

My guess is that Apple is getting heat (and fear) from a certain religious persuasion. "

(A "persuasion"? Really? A major world religion with over a billion adherents is not a "persuasion.")

And oh, yeah. From the same post "It may be best if we close this thread." After a successful drive-by hit, change the gun laws.


So I call 'em like I see 'em.

Moderation of the forum has largely been honored in the breach of late, and this type of troll thread has grown more common, especially by the OP. Look at his recent thread list and one finds the B-1 bomber, the USS Zumwalt, the Norwegian frigate disaster, and several others all calculated to get responses such as those I listed above.

To the "controversy" itself, Slitherine is spinning like a top. The issue is not "historical wargames" at all; Afghanistan isn't history. It's current events. I'm sure the seven fatherless children of Major Brent Taylor, killed last month in Afghanistan, would be heartened to know he died so there might be grist for a game. Perhaps Slitherine could send each of them a free copy.

As for Apple, it is easy to see that they are acting in accordance with their published standards for App Store content. I was on my back, in bed, in the dark on my phone, without my glasses on, so it took me three whole minutes to find their app developer standards on the subject:


https://developer.apple.com/app-store/r ... uidelines/

"1.1 Objectionable Content

Apps should not include content that is offensive, insensitive, upsetting, intended to disgust, or in exceptionally poor taste. Examples of such content include:
1.1.1 Defamatory, discriminatory, or mean-spirited content, including references or commentary about religion, race, sexual orientation, gender, national/ethnic origin, or other targeted groups, particularly if the app is likely to humiliate, intimidate, or place a targeted individual or group in harm’s way. Professional political satirists and humorists are generally exempt from this requirement.

1.1.2 Realistic portrayals of people or animals being killed, maimed, tortured, or abused, or content that encourages violence. “Enemies” within the context of a game cannot solely target a specific race, culture, real government, corporation, or any other real entity."

But hey, why inject facts into a good troll?

I just wanted to weigh in and say that I also found comments, such as those quoted, to be very, very borderline for our forum. It's the prime reason I've been responding to such trolling. Honestly, were I the moderator, I'd have removed them to preemptively eliminate a flamewar (our mod does a just fine job, it's largely a matter of judgement and each mod's lines on acceptable conduct vary).

I am getting sick of feeling like I need to push back on what basically amounts to fact-free or fact-twisting propaganda in a forum for a game. These folks need to take these posts back to Facebook for the "pleasure" of their relatives, or head on over to reddit.com/r/TheDonald if they're really that inclined to spew forth.

[Canoerebel]

There are a few Forumites who have rather extreme views and feel a need to express themselves forcefully in what should be a relaxed, non-political environment. But it's only a few. Most of us don't bother calling them out, because we know that there isn't any reasoning with them. It does no good to try - it just feeds their mania. So the balance of the population, through silence, aren't acquiescing or agreeing. They just don't enjoy engaging in futility. It can be especially frustrating for us when people we respect begun to lump us in with the "fomenters." I have strong beliefs built through a lifetime of careful thought - just like most of the rest of you gents. I don't express those beliefs often; neither do I want those who happen to disagree with me to ridicule or dismiss my beliefs.

[Rusty1961]

I just wanted to weigh in and say that I also found comments, such as those quoted, to be very, very borderline for our forum. It's the prime reason I've been responding to such trolling. Honestly, were I the moderator, I'd have removed them to preemptively eliminate a flamewar (our mod does a just fine job, it's largely a matter of judgement and each mod's lines on acceptable conduct vary)

.

Yes, I know you would have censored the thread. It's that fascist drive to control everything about your surroundings that you can't help. Like an itch you have to scratch.

Perhaps that is why you aren't a moderator? did you think of that?

I am getting sick of feeling like I need to push back on what basically amounts to fact-free or fact-twisting propaganda in a forum for a game. These folks need to take these posts back to Facebook for the "pleasure" of their relatives, or head on over to reddit.com/r/TheDonald if they're really that inclined to spew forth.

Really? I don't remember anyone forcing your to read any comment I make or even to respond?

I post articles and discussions I like, not what you like. If you don't like my comments no one is holding a gun to your head forcing your to post your comments.

You have some great need to make yourself the arbiter of what is acceptable and what isn't.

Funny how I never call for anyone to be censored yet you frequently do.