TRP - Total Realism Project for War in Europe (1.9 Download)

[Duedman]

hi all
OCB lured me into playing this and I got a few questions plus one possible bug.

I like the reduced spotting for land units. But why the passive spotting range of fighters has been increased by so much?
I can not even forbid passive spotting via house rule. Because due to the short engagement range I HAVE to move my fighters close to the front to actively spot.
And then I can see the enemy 5 tiles deep. And thats without range upgrades. Is there a reason for this increase?

I also like the reduced force march speed. But would it be possible to increase it to +50% of base speed? So motorized units could move 6 hexes instead of 5? That 50% number rounded down so 3AP infantry would still only get +1 Movement but fully supplied 4AP units would benefit.

The possible bug is as shown in the screenshot below. Both marked units seem to have the same icon. I am probably the only one who plays without nato counters lol

2023-03-25 08_19_06-.jpg (37.07 KiB) Viewed 535 times

[Lothos]

hi all
OCB lured me into playing this and I got a few questions plus one possible bug.

I like the reduced spotting for land units. But why the passive spotting range of fighters has been increased by so much?
I can not even forbid passive spotting via house rule. Because due to the short engagement range I HAVE to move my fighters close to the front to actively spot.
And then I can see the enemy 5 tiles deep. And thats without range upgrades. Is there a reason for this increase?

I also like the reduced force march speed. But would it be possible to increase it to +50% of base speed? So motorized units could move 6 hexes instead of 5? That 50% number rounded down so 3AP infantry would still only get +1 Movement but fully supplied 4AP units would benefit.

The possible bug is as shown in the screenshot below. Both marked units seem to have the same icon. I am probably the only one who plays without nato counters lol

2023-03-25 08_19_06-.jpg

The passive spotting range for fighters does not increase with the range. It is done that way for scouting and gives the side with air supremacy the advantage (which is historically accurate) with intelligence and location of the enemy.

Force March, I would prefer to turn it off but I am not able to so I lowered it as much as possible. The mod is designed for the speed the units have now. If we increase the speed of units it will unbalance things (especially on the Russian Front).

I am not a graphics person, if you want to make a unique Sprite for it I would love to add it in

[mssm45]

Hi Lothos,

Perfect timing for me that V 1.2 is available now. i have three MP series on YT going but one of my productions is a wrap and the other two nearly so. Will do some SP testing at the recommended AI settings I believe.
Later some casual MP testing perhaps as I would like to do a full blown MP campaign for YT in the future. If I do that, it will require a big commitment from both parties. So before that, testing will be necessary!

Anyways thanks for all this. Will give you my impressions as I go along.

Side note regarding marshes: Fortifications in marshes could be very strong in swamp/marshes, particularly on the Eastern Front. The Finns and Soviets both build formidable defense works on the Svir River line for example.
Same for the Soviets (and later the Germans) around Leningrad, Volhkov and Novgorod.

Thanks for the hard work Lothos.

Edit: Played 3 turns as Allies in SP so far so good. Had two initial observations.

1) I had read in posts above that terrain bonus properties are not visible. Exactly what is meant by that? In my test where ever I hover over a terrain hex, I see different max entrenchment values. Is there something else I am missing here that's changed in regards to viewing terrain defensive properties? btw I like the concept of stacking terrain types eg. A town on a hill hex for example.

2) Experience for units only up to plus 1. Hqs up to 5. That's fine and I like it. One thing though, is the Malta AA. Before, if the UK took and paid for the DEC to reinforce the AA Unit on Malta, that unit would be 13 strength. Now its only 11 if the DEC is chosen. The price is the same I believe though as before. Is this intended?
Note at times I thought the 13 strength AA unit was a bit too strong, but here with TRP's extra turns, a Malta 11 strength AA unit will be easier to kill for sure. If that is intended I am probably fine with that also but wanted to here your take on this.

Hello,
Please let me know if you need a PBEM opponent for this mod. Cheers

[Duedman]

I am not a graphics person, if you want to make a unique Sprite for it I would love to add it in

I wish I would be able to!
But why not take the standard mechanized inf icon?
Also, right now it looks like an anti tank unit while on the map. The little picture bottom left is still the scout model.

2023-03-25 18_06_57-SC3_ WWII War in Europe v1.25.00.jpg (26.71 KiB) Viewed 496 times

2023-03-25 18_07_26-.jpg (21.89 KiB) Viewed 496 times

[Duedman]

What a fluke.... the very next turn the icons do match again....

Edit: And next turn it shows as an AT again

2023-03-25 19_19_12-SC3_ WWII War in Europe v1.25.00.jpg (63.69 KiB) Viewed 491 times

[Lothos]

You are playing with older version of TRP suggest you upgrade

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Hello Lothos.

I know you removed the ability to place AA upgrades on resources like mines, ports, etc. I understand the reasoning. It's because the AI would make mass purchases and placements of AA all over the place and at great cost.

Question: Would it be possible to make a simple change enabling AA upgrades on resources for a MP Version of WiE-TRP ?
No other changes necessary.

While the MP community maybe smaller, we are more than casual war-gamers. We test all the time because human opponents are, well, humans.
There's a few of us (MP players) that are concerned that in MP play as it stands now, not having the option to buy and place AA on critical resources will skew things. AA upgrades are expensive enough that no one I know will willie-nillie spend on these.
AA upgrades are extremely important in places like key ports or mines. Malta and Ploesti come to mind, particularly against a human opponent.

Anyways I really love the mod as I have told you before. My future opponent is testing. I have been hot seat testing also.
Respects.
Mike

[Duedman]

You are playing with older version of TRP suggest you upgrade

I got 1.20 running. Changelog did not say that sprites were changed?

But is there a way to continue an ongoing campaign with the 1.2.1 version? The savegame want's 1.20 (which I backupped).

[Duedman]

Is there some rule that prevents you from declaring war on SU and/or US before a certain date?
I can not attack SU somehow?!
They are just not there.

2023-03-26 19_13_08-.jpg (58.73 KiB) Viewed 434 times

2023-03-26 19_13_23-.jpg (31.33 KiB) Viewed 434 times

[Lothos]

Is there some rule that prevents you from declaring war on SU and/or US before a certain date?
I can not attack SU somehow?!
They are just not there.

2023-03-26 19_13_08-.jpg
2023-03-26 19_13_23-.jpg

You need to use the Map and declare war that way instead of Diplomacy screen.

[Taxman66]

Use the war map to declare war on Major powers.

And save games aren't compatible.

Although you can have 2 different versions of the mod at the same time.

[Taxman66]

Suggestions:

1)
If possible, allow units to accumulate experience up to 1.5 or 1.9 pips.
This will keep them with the combat effectiveness of just 1 pip but will allow some slack when they take losses so that they can keep their pip.

2)
Since units can only have a single experience pip, I think it would be ok to allow elite reinforcements.
This might actually help the AI more than hurt it. The AI (with the max income bonus + the possibility of free research) has more than enough units (actually suffers with so many units there are more in bad positions that tend to get themselves killed and cause a drag on the AI National Morale). If the AI spent on elite reinforcements the units would be stronger, perform better and be better protected from getting killed.

[Lothos]

Suggestions:

1)
If possible, allow units to accumulate experience up to 1.5 or 1.9 pips.
This will keep them with the combat effectiveness of just 1 pip but will allow some slack when they take losses so that they can keep their pip.

2)
Since units can only have a single experience pip, I think it would be ok to allow elite reinforcements.
This might actually help the AI more than hurt it. The AI (with the max income bonus + the possibility of free research) has more than enough units (actually suffers with so many units there are more in bad positions that tend to get themselves killed and cause a drag on the AI National Morale). If the AI spent on elite reinforcements the units would be stronger, perform better and be better protected from getting killed.

Will think about it, I can see your point.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Lothos,
I posted some comments further up the thread.
You may have missed it.

Here's a portion:
Question: Would it be possible to make a simple change enabling AA upgrades on resources for a MP Version of WiE-TRP ?
No other changes necessary.

The above clipped out of the whole comments I made.

[Lothos]

Lothos,
I posted some comments further up the thread.
You may have missed it.

Here's a portion:
Question: Would it be possible to make a simple change enabling AA upgrades on resources for a MP Version of WiE-TRP ?
No other changes necessary.

The above clipped out of the whole comments I made.

My issue with that is that I then have to maintain 3 versions of the mod and that's going to be very difficult. I can manage 2 versions because I use Beyond Compare so I can work on them simultaneously but 3 versions is not possible using that tool.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Lothos,
I posted some comments further up the thread.
You may have missed it.

Here's a portion:
Question: Would it be possible to make a simple change enabling AA upgrades on resources for a MP Version of WiE-TRP ?
No other changes necessary.

The above clipped out of the whole comments I made.

My issue with that is that I then have to maintain 3 versions of the mod and that's going to be very difficult. I can manage 2 versions because I use Beyond Compare so I can work on them simultaneously but 3 versions is not possible using that tool.

OK no problem. We got a house rule to deal with the 'no AA upgrading of resources' mechanic. Figured out a work around beforehand in case.

[Lothos]

Lothos,
I posted some comments further up the thread.
You may have missed it.

Here's a portion:
Question: Would it be possible to make a simple change enabling AA upgrades on resources for a MP Version of WiE-TRP ?
No other changes necessary.

The above clipped out of the whole comments I made.

My issue with that is that I then have to maintain 3 versions of the mod and that's going to be very difficult. I can manage 2 versions because I use Beyond Compare so I can work on them simultaneously but 3 versions is not possible using that tool.

OK no problem. We got a house rule to deal with the 'no AA upgrading of resources' mechanic. Figured out a work around beforehand in case.

The thing is that all units get AA so you do not really need them on the ports etc... If you have a ship in the port it will use its AA to defend itself.

If you have a specific area you want to defend that does not have any units you can always use an AA unit.

[Taxman66]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but except for Germany most nations simply don't have that many of them.

For example the UK gets 3. If you don't leave one in Malta you are begging to lose the island (for MP, not sure if AI is smart enough to recognize that situation). One to defend London and one for Southampton. Nothing left to defend central England, nor Egypt.

[Lothos]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but except for Germany most nations simply don't have that many of them.

For example the UK gets 3. If you don't leave one in Malta you are begging to lose the island (for MP, not sure if AI is smart enough to recognize that situation). One to defend London and one for Southampton. Nothing left to defend central England, nor Egypt.

Thats what fighters are for!

Two main reasons for getting rid of AA was that AI did not know how to use it and to force Germany to use fighters to protect its industry and not just build AA everywhere. Germany has to suffer casualties to use up its MPP(s) in a slow grind to turn the tide of the war. Unfortunately AA fire is a way to negate the defenders side of casualties and cause damage to the attacker. This is why I made AA units have a range of 2 so you can use them to defend key areas but not defend everything.

Historically Germany had to commit 66% of its fighters to protect its industry from Allied Bombings which took a huge toll on it.

I hope that the both of you can see what my point is here.

[Taxman66]

Sadly, oftentimes what's best for the AI is not what's best for MP.