V-weapons (Rockets)

[Moonchild]

It seems to me that Rockets are rarely or not all used by >average and experienced axis players. I think they have very little effect as opposed to their cost.

If other players have different experience, please tell. However, if this is true I think the game could handle V-rockets differently:

- As far as I know, they caused significant psychological effect apart from the physical (economical). Thus, I would propose that each succesfull V-rocket hit on a city should cause morale loss to the victim, perhaps x2 at London. I feel that it would be appropriate for this game, which takes into consideration the morale effect of much lesser events such as the destruction of a garrison unit etc, but in this case misses something much more important.

- Alternatively, V-Rockets could also be handled like "DE 309 - USA: Drop Atomic Bombs on Japan"
where Germany could invest MPP's and provided it occupied specific hexes on map (in range of London?) it would cause morale loss/turn to UK. That would encourage allies to move to occupy/liberate these hexes.

(of-course I do not know if the developers are willing at this point to implement changes in the game. If this is not possible, sorry for the "spamming")

[archmache]

A post war study found that the cost of the V2 program was ~2 Billion USD, or about the same as the us manhattan project. It was a huge resource drain on the Axis - think about all the planes, tanks, and artillery shells that could have been made otherwise.

Personally, I find rockets to be balanced. They should be used for
1) Malta suppression (don't sell the MPP chit) and you can pound malta every turn for the rest of the game (and thereby reducing mpp)
2) London MPP suppression - london is worth 24 mpp per turn, if you hit it from the start of the game that will equate to thousands in lost mpp. I have suggested - and this is yet to be implemented - that resources lost from strat bombing / artillery / rockets should lower NM by a factor of 2x or some variable - including when the mine is fully reduced to zero.
3) Rocketing the ports when allied D-Day hits. Being able to take out the ports from a range of 5/6 late in the war is quite useful.

In general, most axis buy tanks and rush Russia. Most tactically efficient way to win in MP, but not every game is about winning. I played Elvis once and built rockets and the game went till 1947 so it depends.

[Moonchild]

Thank you for the comments, I will try these tactics at the first opportunity. However, even if the rockets cannot be intercepted, can't they be attacked by allied air units (tactical bombers based in Britain for example), CVs and BBs when coastal and be damaged or destroyed rather easily?

[John B.]

They should let level 5 rockets hit the east coast of the US. Perhaps with a slight damage to US NM. It would be another reason to build rockets and add a bit of fun to an endgame without too much effect on play balance.

[Elessar2]

I experimented with huge rocket ranges (in a futile attempt to have them model A-bombs in the way you suggest). The algorithm reduced their damage to pitiful levels at a range of 20-30 hexes or so.

[John B.]

Given that the W-50 on a Minuteman only weighs 700 pounds I'm not too surprised that an ICBM of WWII vintage would have a tiny warhead and a negligible impact.

According to Clay Barker's books on the sub war (which are very good) the US was concerned at the end of the war about missiles of a V-1 type being launched from Uboats against NYC and DC. Perhaps there could be a late war German event whereby if Germany spends some amount of MMP there is are strikes against the East Coast that inflicts some (albeit minor) NM/MMP hit on the US. Sort of like the A-bomb event but not as expensive and not nearly as devastating.

[BillRunacre]

I experimented with huge rocket ranges (in a futile attempt to have them model A-bombs in the way you suggest). The algorithm reduced their damage to pitiful levels at a range of 20-30 hexes or so.

Have you experimented with reducing the range loss as range increases from 10% to say 5% or even 0%?

To do this go to Campaign -> Edit Research -> Advanced -> Select the country and the toggle for Rockets is at the bottom right.

I'm wondering now whether increasing their range via an Automatic Research category would also be a way to minimize the range loss accuracy, as I suspect the latter only affects their range increases caused by Manual Upgrades.

This is just a hunch, but it might be worth your while trying out, e.g. having their range increase via a Manual Upgrade (as now) and an Automatic category too.

[Elessar2]

Appreciate the tips there Bill, I had no idea there was a hidden setting for the things.

I could likely pull it off, but the things cannot be loaded onto transports. Fix that and more possibilies open up. I dlslike having to use events for the A-Bomb (I dlslike events being used for such things).

[Moonchild]

Quick update on that:

My axis opponent built 2 V-rocket units and bombarded London to the ground (=0). If I have the calculations right, Germany spent apprx 360 MPPs for x2 V-Rocket units + 150 MPPs for research (need lvl 2 Rockets to have sufficient range after Calais coastal battery is built), thus a total of roughly 500 MPPs.

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.
UK is losing 24 MPPs per round = 288 per year. So, it takes about 2 years of bombardment to get even for the resources Germany invested. From a resources-value-for-money perspective, I don't think its great for the german side.

However, I'm waiting to see how V-rockets can affect D-Day invasion by bombing the allied ports.

[Taxman66]

You do realize that the V weapons were even less effective (at least on economic damage done terms) in real life.

[Platoonist]

From a resources-value-for-money perspective, I don't think its great for the german side.

Seems in line with history anyway. The payload of the V-2 was less than that of the B-24 bomber which were raiding Germany in their hundreds twice a week if not more. If I remember correctly more people were killed building the things in underground factories than were killed by them (slave labor). Not that the Germans cared, of course. On the other hand, they probably did provide at least a 500 MPP down-payment on the Apollo moon program.

[Moonchild]

On the other hand, they probably did provide at least a 500 MPP down-payment on the Apollo moon program

Correct!

[Moonchild]

Allied units landed at France and V-rockets are bombing the captured ports. All fine so far. What was unexpected was the extreme resilience of V-rocket units against amphibious and ground attacks.

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The V-unit under attack has 2* experience and 0 entrechment. I only get 0:0 results both at amphibious, air & land attacks. The best allied Tactical bomber (2* experience + 3* HQ) only gets 0:1.

The same attacking units get 0:1, 0:2 or better vs other German units on the coastline (entrenched or in cities). It seems to me odd since the V-units have "0" hard & soft defence value (plus the town's bonus)?...

[BillRunacre]

Their experience and position will be a factor here, though it can be offset by having a high level of Amphibious Warfare research, and bombing them as much as possible too.

[Moonchild]

Quick update: On the following turn, the morale/readiness of the V-Rocket units dropped significantly (say from >80% to <40% or so) and the bombardment odds changed a lot. The V-unit was annihilated after 3-4 bombardments by tact bombers.