TRP - World at War Released v0.8.14a

[Elessar2]

VERY impressed. I can't imagine what your work pace has to be to make this much progress in such a short period of time.

My only quibble is that you have the Fuso's and Ise's as battlecruisers, the Kongo's as battleships, while the former had thicker armor and more guns and the latter were faster. The US prewar battlewagons were undoubtedly heftier, tho slower.

Feel free to go over my WitP scenario for inspiration and ideas. You might get a lot of mileage out of the 3 techs which increase build limits (land/air/sea).

One issue is that, if you make one counter per heavy & light cruiser is that it might overwhelm sea battles a bit. I decided that one counter = two cruisers. See the penultimate AAR between Old Crow Balthazor and myself to see like 50 ships in one huge melee. It was a real slog-he could have had Yamamoto walk from Japan to New Guinea across a bridge of ships, that's how dense things got.

[Lothos]

VERY impressed. I can't imagine what your work pace has to be to make this much progress in such a short period of time.

My only quibble is that you have the Fuso's and Ise's as battlecruisers, the Kongo's as battleships, while the former had thicker armor and more guns and the latter were faster. The US prewar battlewagons were undoubtedly heftier, tho slower.

Feel free to go over my WitP scenario for inspiration and ideas. You might get a lot of mileage out of the 3 techs which increase build limits (land/air/sea).

One issue is that, if you make one counter per heavy & light cruiser is that it might overwhelm sea battles a bit. I decided that one counter = two cruisers. See the penultimate AAR between Old Crow Balthazor and myself to see like 50 ships in one huge melee. It was a real slog-he could have had Yamamoto walk from Japan to New Guinea across a bridge of ships, that's how dense things got.

Fusu and Ise were extremely old Battleships commissioned shortly after World War 1. By 1930s standards they where outgunned and out matched by more current battleships. They were very slow compared to the more modern ships and also had a shorter range.

That is why I classified them as Battle Cruisers. To put them in the same league as the Bismark is not correct.

[Elessar2]

I grasp that, but you've made them weaker than the Kongo's, which had 4 fewer main guns and 4 inch thinner armor. Note you can adjust the stats on a nation-by-nation basis-maybe you already did that.

[Lothos]

I grasp that, but you've made them weaker than the Kongo's, which had 4 fewer main guns and 4 inch thinner armor. Note you can adjust the stats on a nation-by-nation basis-maybe you already did that.

Size of the guns is not the only factor, maneuverability and speed play a huge role in ship to ship combat.

[Lothos]

Finished the ship OOBs for all the major powers, their may be some tweaks for the minors but this is about it overall. Going back to the Pacific and working on the OOBs for the minors and placing Destroyers out for Japan.

One thing to note, the USA West Coast fleet will not be deployed, that fleet will come as an event when the USA is at war with Japan. If not, then a human player will always remove all of his ships from Pearl Harbor.

However the East Coast fleet is placed.

Someone commented that this is alot of ships and it may be a slugfest.

That is a possibility and I will see how things play out in a simulation but keep in mind this map is ENORMOUS and their is allot of ocean to cover.


USA
#############################
Carrier
-----------
Saratoga
Lexington
Ranger
Yorktown
Enterprise
Hornet
Wasp
Essex
Lexington II
Yorktown II
Bunker Hill
Intrepid
Wasp II
Hornet II
Franklin
Hancock
Ticonderoga
Bennington
Shangri La
Randolph
BH Richard
Antietam
Baxer
L Champlain
Princeton II
Taniwa
Kearsage
Leyte
Philippine Sea
Valley Forge
Oriskany
Reprisal
Iwo Jima




Light Carrier
-----------
Langley
Independence
Princeton
Belleau Wood
Cowpens
Monterey
Cabot
Langley II
Bataan
San Jacinto
Saipan
Wright



Battle Cruiser
---------------
Wyoming
Arkansas
Texas
New York
Nevada
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Arizona
Mississippi
New Mexico
Idaho
Tennessee
California
Maryland
Colorado
West Virginia


Pearl Harbor
---------------
Nevada
Arizona
Tennessee
West Virginia
Maryland
Oklahoma
California
Pennsylvania
Nevada


Battleship
---------------
North Carolina
Washington
South Dakota
Indiana
Massachusetts
Alabama
Iowa
New Jersey
Wisconsin
Missouri
Kentucky
Illinois
Alaska
Guam
Hawaii
Phillippines
Puerto Rico
Samoa

Dreadgnaught
---------------
Montana
Ohio
Maine
N Hampshire
Louisiana


Heavy Cruiser
-------------------
Salt Lake City
Pensacola
Northampton
Chester
Augusta
Chicago
Louisville
Houston
Indianapolis
Portland
New Orleans
San Francisco
Astoria
Minneapolis
Tuscaloosa
Quincy
Vincennes
Wichita
Baltimore
Boston
Canberra
Quincy II
Pittsburgh
Chicago II
St. Paul
Bremerton
Columbus
Fall River
Los Angeles
Macon
Helena II
Oregon City
Albany
Toledo
Rochester
Northampton II
Cambridge
Bridgeport
Kansas City
Tulsa
Norfolk
Scranton
Des Moines
Salem
Dallas
Newport News
Roanoke
Worcester
Vallejo
Gary



Light Cruiser
-------------------
Omaha
Milwaukee
Richmond
Detroit
Concord
Cincinnati
Raleigh
Trenton
Marblehead
Memphis
Brooklyn
Philadelphia
Savannah
Honolulu
Nashville
Boise
Phoenix
St. Louis
Helena
Atlanta
Juneau
San Diego
San Juan
Cleveland
Columbia
Montpelier
Denver
Santa Fe
Oakland
Birmingham
Reno
Mobile
Biloxi
Houston
Miami
Vincennes
Astoria
Pasadena
Vicksburg
Wilkes-Barre
Flint
Duluth
Springfield
Oklahoma City
Topeka
Dayton
Amsterdam
Tucson
Providence
Little Rock
Portsmouth
Fargo
Huntington
Spokane
Galveston
Manchester
Fresno
Wilmington
Tallahasse
New Haven
Newark
Buffalo
Cheyenne
Youngstown
Vallejo
Roanoke
Chattanooga
Worcester
Gary



UK
#############################
Carrier
-----------
Ark Royal
Indefatigable
Implacable
Audacious
Ark Royal II
Eagle II
Malta
Gibraltar
New Zealand
Africa


Light Carrier
-----------
Courageous
Glorious
Furious
Illustrious
Formidable
Victorious
Indomitable
Argus
Eagle
Hermes
Unicorn
Colosus
Vengeance
Pioneer
Glory
Ocean
Perseus
Warrior
Triumph
Theseus
Majestic
Powerful
Magnificent
Terrible
Hercules
Leviathon
Centaur
Albion
Bulwark
Elephant
Arrogant
Venerable

Battle Cruiser
---------------
Queen Elizabeth
Valiant
Warsprite
Barham
Malaya
Revenge
Royal Oak
Royal Sovereign
Resolution
Ramillies
Nelson
Rodney
Iron Duke


Battleship
---------------
King George V
Prince of Wales
Duke of York
Anson
Howe
Vanguard
Lion Conqueror
Thunderer
Repulse
Renown
Hood




Heavy Cruiser
-------------------
Hawkins
Frobisher
Effingham
Cumberland
Berwick
Cornwall
Suffolk
Kent
London
Devonshire
Sussex
York
Norfolk
Dorsetshire
Exeter
Newcastle
Sheffield
Glasgow
Birmingham
Southampton
Manchester
Liverpool
Gloucester
Nigeria
Kenya
Mauritius
Trinidad
Fiji
Jamaica
Bermuda
Uganda
Newfoundland
Superb
Tiger
Defence
Blake
Hawke
Neptune
Ceylon
Edinburgh
Belfast
Edgar
Mars
Minotaur





Light Cruiser
-------------------
Achilles
Orion
Neptune
Ajax
Leander
Sydney
Hobart
Perth
Caledon
Curlew
Curacoa
Coventry
Delhi
Carlisle
Colombo
Calcutta
Cairo
Bonaventure
Naiad
Phoebe
Dido
Hermione
Euryalus
Charybdis
Cleopatra
Sirius
Scylla
Argonaut
Spartan
Royalist
Bellona
Black Prince
Diadem
Caradoc
Calypso
Ceres
Cardiff
Danae
Dragon
Dauntless
Dunedin
Durban
Capetown
Despatch
Adelaide
Diomede
Emerald
Enterprise
Arethusa
Galatea
Aurora
Penelope
Adventure
Abdiel
Latona
Manxman
Welshman
Ariadne
Apollo



France
#############################
Carrier
-----------
St. Cyr


Light Carrier
-----------
Joffre
Painleve
Suchet
Marechal Ney
Béarn
Commandante Teste


Battle Cruiser
---------------
Jean Bart
Courbet
Paris
Dunkerque
Strasbourg
Provence
Bretagne
Lorraine


Battleship
---------------
Jean Bart II
Clemenceau
Gascoigne
Richelieu


Heavy Cruiser
-------------------
Primaguet
Duguay Trouin
Lamotte Picquet
Duquesne
Tourvillet
Suffren
Colbert
Foch
Dupleix
Algérie
Maroc
Tunis
Indo Chine

Light Cruiser
-------------------
Pluton
Jeanne D'Arc
Emile Bertin
La Galissonniere
Jean de Vienne
Marseillaise
Gloire
Montcalm
Georges Leygues
De Grasse
Chateaurenault
Guichen

[Lothos]

Another update

I am very close to putting out the Alpha.

Map work left
- Alaska terrain
- Some areas in Siberia still remain

Some highlights
- Japan imports all of the resources from the Dutch East Indies to simulate both the Oil from their and from the USA
- USA will issue an Embargo against Japan when it reaches 60 mobilization, at that point the Dutch East Indies is cut off
- Singapore redesigned so it can be attacked via a land route

Balance work remaining
- Lot of work to do here still as UK has an enormous amount of MPs now.

[Unfortunate Son]

Good God man... look at all those battleships and cruisers!!! etc...

Glad to see that the navies are well represented in this game. Something I have felt was lacking a bit. With your larger map I'm sure all those ships will not be bunched up on the map.

I need to play this game in all its glory. He who rules the sea, shall rule the world!!! I want to be that Supreme Leader!!! Old Crow you won't be able to stop me!!!

[Kuebelwagen]

What about the events? Will you transfer all events von World at War into TRP or do you want to expand it?

[Lothos]

What about the events? Will you transfer all events von World at War into TRP or do you want to expand it?

What do you mean by "von World at War"

If you mean the base game, I am looking it over. Their are not a ton of events. Most stuff are just informational pop-ups that have no effect in the game. Those I can add later as a flavor and immersion but have no bearing on the game itself.

[Kuebelwagen]

What do you mean by "von World at War"

If you mean the base game, I am looking it over. Their are not a ton of events. Most stuff are just informational pop-ups that have no effect in the game. Those I can add later as a flavor and immersion but have no bearing on the game itself.

Ah sorry about that, a german word came with ... i mean the events from the vanilla game, yes!
I think the big challenge in the dev will be the balance but i look forward to play it the first time... i was waiting for a mod like this and you made an amazing job so far.
I hope it won't be so much micromanagement with all the ships and units... but step by step

Have you fixed the american west coast problem?

[Lothos]

What do you mean by "von World at War"

If you mean the base game, I am looking it over. Their are not a ton of events. Most stuff are just informational pop-ups that have no effect in the game. Those I can add later as a flavor and immersion but have no bearing on the game itself.

Ah sorry about that, a german word came with ... i mean the events from the vanilla game, yes!
I think the big challenge in the dev will be the balance but i look forward to play it the first time... i was waiting for a mod like this and you made an amazing job so far.
I hope it won't be so much micromanagement with all the ships and units... but step by step

Have you fixed the american west coast problem?

What is the America West Coast problem?

[Kuebelwagen]

Because you explained in that the map scale there is no space for the west coast and you wanted to search for a solution to get the west coast in the game.

[Lothos]

No, it was never solved so I created a blob on the west edge to represent the west coast. It is far enough from Hawaii to not make it an easy target and skip Hawaii to get to it.

[Lothos]

First post of this thread updated with ALPHA download link, looking for feedback.

Thank you in advance

[Elessar2]

Overall looks very awesome.

I need to make you aware of three issues with the game engine, however.

If you try to place a port leading to an adjacent land installation, the port has to exist in a hex next to land attached directly to the installation, or sea supply won't be given to said installation. [As you likely already found out on your own, ports cannot be placed on pure sea spaces.] Check out Surabaya on Sumatra: since the land in the hex is a small strip of an island hex not connected to the town (instead to the uninhabited island to the N), it will only get a max of 3 supply, not 5. In addition, to provide said supply you need to add a short road or rail stub leading from the installation to the port. To remedy this issue, you'll need to redraw the coasts at those locations so the game engine is not confused. Good news is that "free-floating" islands such as Ponape won't have this issue since they are more than 50% water.

Additionally, often what you see is NOT what you get in terms of what is a "sea" space or land space. For example, you have a port in a bay near Kao, N. Maluki (371,182), but there's no way for a ship to get in there since the two adjacent spaces are considered land spaces, despite what seems to be a viable channel in between the two peninsulas. The same issue impinges on the Philippines at several locations for land units, such as hex (366, 162) on Leyte-a land unit cannot walk up or down the island because all adjacent hexes are technically sea spaces. A non-SF unit which chances to land on such a hex will be trapped for the remainder of the game (well until its zero supply level knocks its strength down to zero).

Hope this helps, and good luck on finishing this beast.

[Lothos]

Overall looks very awesome.

I need to make you aware of three issues with the game engine, however.

If you try to place a port leading to an adjacent land installation, the port has to exist in a hex next to land attached directly to the installation, or sea supply won't be given to said installation. [As you likely already found out on your own, ports cannot be placed on pure sea spaces.] Check out Surabaya on Sumatra: since the land in the hex is a small strip of an island hex not connected to the town (instead to the uninhabited island to the N), it will only get a max of 3 supply, not 5. In addition, to provide said supply you need to add a short road or rail stub leading from the installation to the port. To remedy this issue, you'll need to redraw the coasts at those locations so the game engine is not confused. Good news is that "free-floating" islands such as Ponape won't have this issue since they are more than 50% water.

Additionally, often what you see is NOT what you get in terms of what is a "sea" space or land space. For example, you have a port in a bay near Kao, N. Maluki (371,182), but there's no way for a ship to get in there since the two adjacent spaces are considered land spaces, despite what seems to be a viable channel in between the two peninsulas. The same issue impinges on the Philippines at several locations for land units, such as hex (366, 162) on Leyte-a land unit cannot walk up or down the island because all adjacent hexes are technically sea spaces. A non-SF unit which chances to land on such a hex will be trapped for the remainder of the game (well until its zero supply level knocks its strength down to zero).

Hope this helps, and good luck on finishing this beast.

371,182 - Will fix, feel silly that I missed that one.
366,162 - was done on purpose. You need to invade the island in sections.

Please more feedback

[Kuebelwagen]

I started a hotseat game to see how both sides can handle it... for me everything is fine in Europe so far...
In Asia i miss more cities and a more detailed terrain. The war in China seems boring because you cannot move your armies a lot and there is no dynamic battle mechanic - on my point of view the reason is the empty map with a lot of space between the supply points and you have no chance to make good movements.
There are too less units on both sides, japan and china... maybe you need to doublesize the troop number from vanilla and implement more roads and supply points - should make it more interesting there.

For the navy battles and balance i cannot make any statement, it is even 1940
Maybe germany has too less ships?!

but, not understand me wrong: it is a brilliant work and i love the hugnesss!!!

[Lothos]

I started a hotseat game to see how both sides can handle it... for me everything is fine in Europe so far...
In Asia i miss more cities and a more detailed terrain. The war in China seems boring because you cannot move your armies a lot and there is no dynamic battle mechanic - on my point of view the reason is the empty map with a lot of space between the supply points and you have no chance to make good movements.
There are too less units on both sides, japan and china... maybe you need to double size the troop number from vanilla and implement more roads and supply points - should make it more interesting there.

For the navy battles and balance i cannot make any statement, it is even 1940
Maybe germany has too less ships?!

but, not understand me wrong: it is a brilliant work and i love the hugnesss!!!

I started running simulations and slowly adding an AI and making adjustments.

One thing to note, China is NOT suppose to be like Europe. Historically China was a logistics nightmare. If you follow all of Japans advances they were done along the rail lines because supplies were virtually impossible to get around. You are not suppose to be able to maneuver in China (unfortunately that is Historically accurate).

In regards to size of the armies, I looked at a few games starting 1939 OOBs for that theater and I actually placed more units down than they provide as starting units. The problem is if I put to many units down then China and Japan have nothing to build for the next few years when it is important that Japan spend its MP trying to reinforce the China front and keep the Chinese from counter attacking.

I ran a simulation up to May 1941 last night and the front was a virtual stalemate (just small adjustments) which is a good thing. I am leaning toward Japan needing a bit more MP.

Now with that said, that does not mean I wont make adjustments were appropriate. It just means I won't make it as easy to maneuver around as it is in Europe.

And, Thank you for downloading it and providing feed back.

[slaytanic]

Will you be updating the WAW version soon as well with the WITE .99 version newest changes?

[Lothos]

Will you be updating the WAW version soon as well with the WITE .99 version newest changes?

Yes, I update them both simultaneously. World has more changes mainly AI.

If you are messing with it I can put out what I have now.